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Conflict in the Middle East
Original poster

Why Can't Gazans Leave?

960 replies

miniaturepixieonacid · 04/12/2023 13:25

There is probably a very simple answer to this that I missed in early news reports.

It's so awful watching News Feeds that essentially seem to say that Gazans are having to move around in a cat and mouse game with the IDF to avoid bombs but have nowhere left to go.

I am very aware that war has casualties and other countries are at war. I am not necessarily saying that IDF should stop fighting.

But this war is different in that all civilians seem to be trapped. Normally war creates refugees. Ukrainians, Afghans, Syrians - they were able to get out. Not all, I know, but movement was an option and it kept civilian casualties down. Why can't Gazans leave Gaza?

OP posts:
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75
backtowinter · 07/12/2023 22:08

I'm sorry you all found my comment offensive, and clearly MN agreed with you as they've deleted it

It was aimed at those denying these are captured terrorists, who have access to funds, food and water that ordinary Gazans (starving in an "open air prison") don't have.

backtowinter · 07/12/2023 22:09

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

EasterIssland · 07/12/2023 22:09

backtowinter · 07/12/2023 22:08

I'm sorry you all found my comment offensive, and clearly MN agreed with you as they've deleted it

It was aimed at those denying these are captured terrorists, who have access to funds, food and water that ordinary Gazans (starving in an "open air prison") don't have.

There is no proof of what you’re blaming these men to be so maybe once again keep your horrible opinions about other people’s bodies to yourself

backtowinter · 07/12/2023 22:10

Xenia · 07/12/2023 21:55

As all know Hamas and ISIS are well known for suicide bombing. It is very wise of the Israeli soldiers to ensure the terrorists remove their clothing so they can be sure no weapons are there. Israel is doing a very difficult job very well.

Seriously I feel sick to the stomach at some of these posts

Body shaming. Invasive

They're murdering raping terrorists

Motorina · 07/12/2023 22:11

OuiOuiKitty · 07/12/2023 21:55

Commenting on the bodies of men forced to strip and subjected to invasive body searches. Contributing to their humiliation. There really aren't words for that.

Show quote history

Agreed.

I'd been struggling to find the right words to post something that sounds superficially similar, but hopefully has a quite different intent. These people do not look like I would expect Hamas soldiers to look. They look middle aged and unfit. In other words, they look like most civilians (including myself).

Maybe these really are elite Hamas operatives. But I'd want a lot more proof than a few social media posts before I believed it. Regardless of the truth, they have been stripped naked and blindfolded, which is an abhorrent way to treat people who are at your mercy.

EasterIssland · 07/12/2023 22:12

Xenia · 07/12/2023 21:55

As all know Hamas and ISIS are well known for suicide bombing. It is very wise of the Israeli soldiers to ensure the terrorists remove their clothing so they can be sure no weapons are there. Israel is doing a very difficult job very well.

If these were suicide bombers … wouldn’t they’ve killed themselves in front of to kill the enemy ?

you know for well this is not right. But I know you support Israel and what Israel does is perfect.

EasterIssland · 07/12/2023 22:13

backtowinter · 07/12/2023 22:10

Seriously I feel sick to the stomach at some of these posts

Body shaming. Invasive

They're murdering raping terrorists

Show quote history

Wow!!! You know who they are and have already been sentenced by you!

stormy4319trevor · 07/12/2023 22:13

@backtowinter In addition to the rights worker, school director and UN worker there is said to be a journalist. It is certainly not yet clear who all these people are.

backtowinter · 07/12/2023 22:15

stormy4319trevor · 07/12/2023 22:11

@backtowinter From the Guardian
The head of the Euro-Med human rights monitor said he recognised his friend among the detained Palestinian men in the footage being circulated by Israeli media.
Ramy Abdu, the chair of the Geneva-based rights group, said his friend Al-Kahlout was among the detainees, as well as the director of a school and a United Nations employee.

And? Hostages were held in homes belonging to "ordinary" people

stomachameleon · 07/12/2023 22:16

I think it's a bit naive to think a terrorist organisation that is known for hiding itself among the population would be striding around like the paras in full army gear.

Surely the intelligent amongst us would know they would attempt to blend in. Not be spotted in boots and camo. The pictures I have seen of hierarchy eg sinwar they are dressed 'normally'

I agree more info is needed though. I don't blame the IDF for being cautious whatever. It's a war.

Dulra · 07/12/2023 22:16

Just watching BBC news at 10. Jeremy Bowen interviewing an Israeli politician from the religious zionist party, asking what's the answer an everlasting occupation? his response... Occupation is not the word, one cannot occupy his own land, Bowen asks "Gaza that's the land of Israel?" His response yes land of Israel you can not be occupying it.

So there we have it, they see it as their land they don't see themselves as occupiers, unbelievable arrogance.

stomachameleon · 07/12/2023 22:18

Evidence is needed either way....

Why Can't Gazans Leave?
EasterIssland · 07/12/2023 22:20

stomachameleon · 07/12/2023 22:16

I think it's a bit naive to think a terrorist organisation that is known for hiding itself among the population would be striding around like the paras in full army gear.

Surely the intelligent amongst us would know they would attempt to blend in. Not be spotted in boots and camo. The pictures I have seen of hierarchy eg sinwar they are dressed 'normally'

I agree more info is needed though. I don't blame the IDF for being cautious whatever. It's a war.

Whilst I agree with you with they dress ordinary and blend with citizens I don’t think it’s necessary to remove their clothes , carry them naked and leave them in an area naked all together. They were no threat at all with their clothes. It’s pure humiliation for these people.

eardefender · 07/12/2023 22:20

Its a good question. Egypt wont take them because of the risk of Hamas coming into Egypt. Hamas are embedded in the Gazan population so will infiltrate Egypt. Egypt have a problem with the Muslim Botherhood who have the same aims as Hamas. So from a security point of view until Egypt is satisfied that Israel has wiped Hamas out then they wont be opening the border to refugees any time soon. The PLO caused havoc in Kuwait, Jordan and Lebanon so they wont be taking them in any time soon and as we can see Obviously Israel would not open their borders. When Hams is gone then who knows. It will be in everyone's interests to rebuild Gaza and have it safe and self governing. At the moment its an unsafe terrorist state. I have seen a suggestion from the Israelis that it is run by Gazans and split into 4 or 5 separate areas of governance. The PA don't want it. They cant govern themselves in the west bank (corruption etc) let alone take on Gaza. Please God there is a grass roots leadership movement of people in Gaza who don't want violence and poverty anymore. I have seen a few videos online of very brave Gazans speaking out against Hamas. They should be in power. Not hamas.

stormy4319trevor · 07/12/2023 22:21

Don't be silly @backtowinter You have no idea if all these people have done anything of the sort.

Livinginanotherworld · 07/12/2023 22:32

Xenia · 07/12/2023 21:55

As all know Hamas and ISIS are well known for suicide bombing. It is very wise of the Israeli soldiers to ensure the terrorists remove their clothing so they can be sure no weapons are there. Israel is doing a very difficult job very well.

My post to you Xenia has been deleted as I used a word that’s not allowed. I’d like to point out however, that you are another apologist for Israeli war crimes. The world won’t forget this.

paladium · 07/12/2023 22:34

@Livinginanotherworld sad to say that when the Gaza genocide museum opens in years to come, I hope many posters on here will eat their words.

Livinginanotherworld · 07/12/2023 22:37

Motorina · 07/12/2023 22:11

Agreed.

I'd been struggling to find the right words to post something that sounds superficially similar, but hopefully has a quite different intent. These people do not look like I would expect Hamas soldiers to look. They look middle aged and unfit. In other words, they look like most civilians (including myself).

Maybe these really are elite Hamas operatives. But I'd want a lot more proof than a few social media posts before I believed it. Regardless of the truth, they have been stripped naked and blindfolded, which is an abhorrent way to treat people who are at your mercy.

Show quote history

They have already identified one local respected journalist and his family and are working to identify as many as possible of these poor innocent civilians so they at least have a record of what happened to them. Be in no doubt, this is a war crime and is inhumane and appalling. They are rounding up any men and boys 15 years and older, they are executing them. This is horrific.

EasterIssland · 07/12/2023 22:42

Livinginanotherworld · 07/12/2023 22:37

They have already identified one local respected journalist and his family and are working to identify as many as possible of these poor innocent civilians so they at least have a record of what happened to them. Be in no doubt, this is a war crime and is inhumane and appalling. They are rounding up any men and boys 15 years and older, they are executing them. This is horrific.

Show quote history

Some of the men that have been identified.

Why Can't Gazans Leave?
paladium · 07/12/2023 22:46

Dark times for Palestinians. To think that Israel could commit such atrocities and call itself the "most moral army" and "democracy". Least moral army, least like a democracy.

My heart is breaking.

The progression of these threads is terrifying. To see what is going on now vs just a few days ago. I'm speechless. Nobody can defend this behaviour.

Toothyfruity · 07/12/2023 22:48

I can't believe the levels of inhumanity from pro Israeli posters on this thread.

There is ample evidence of genocide all over the internet in this conflict. The rounding up of these men is absolutely horrendous. The comments here are disgusting.

No amount of evidence will get through to these people. Obviously they don't see Palestinians as human. Or not as human as Israelis anyway.

It's making my stomach turn.

paladium · 07/12/2023 22:58

@Toothyfruity I can't believe it either. Sad times for humanity if so many people think like this.

How anyone can cheer it on, justify in the face of what we are seeing, minimise or dismiss it in this cold hearted way.

OuiOuiKitty · 07/12/2023 23:00

Toothyfruity · 07/12/2023 22:48

I can't believe the levels of inhumanity from pro Israeli posters on this thread.

There is ample evidence of genocide all over the internet in this conflict. The rounding up of these men is absolutely horrendous. The comments here are disgusting.

No amount of evidence will get through to these people. Obviously they don't see Palestinians as human. Or not as human as Israelis anyway.

It's making my stomach turn.

Edited

Yup. I'm back away from these threads for a while. The rapid radicalisation of pro war posters is horrifying to witness. Who would have thought it would be so easy to convince people in 2023 that genocide is for the benefit of the world.

paladium · 07/12/2023 23:03

@OuiOuiKitty 💔. Sometimes good to step away for a bit for your own MH.

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