Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Conflict in the Middle East
Original poster

Why Can't Gazans Leave?

960 replies

miniaturepixieonacid · 04/12/2023 13:25

There is probably a very simple answer to this that I missed in early news reports.

It's so awful watching News Feeds that essentially seem to say that Gazans are having to move around in a cat and mouse game with the IDF to avoid bombs but have nowhere left to go.

I am very aware that war has casualties and other countries are at war. I am not necessarily saying that IDF should stop fighting.

But this war is different in that all civilians seem to be trapped. Normally war creates refugees. Ukrainians, Afghans, Syrians - they were able to get out. Not all, I know, but movement was an option and it kept civilian casualties down. Why can't Gazans leave Gaza?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
75
OuiOuiKitty · 05/12/2023 12:14

OuiOuiKitty · 05/12/2023 12:07

Well no, why should Israel get to steal more land and call it a 'buffer zone' they already call 1/3 of land suitable for agriculture a 'buffer zone'. You don't get to just say 'yoink, I'll have that' it isn't Israels to take. The arrogance needed to presume it is astounding.

Show quote history

Just to add if Israel wants buffer zones fair enough but all of that buffer zone needs to be on Israeli land. Not how Israel are currently suggesting and not how it currently is. Farmers need to be able to work without being in fear for their lives, children need to be able to play with out being in fear for their lives. They need to be left alone.

SOBplus · 05/12/2023 13:04

OuiOuiKitty · 05/12/2023 11:52

Isn't this just an argument for why they need a safe place to call their own though? Israel needs to back off on the occupying, back off on the pilfering, back off on the controlling and just let them live. Not once in 75 years has Israel actually just fucked off and let them live in peace. Why don't they try that? Round up their settlers, round up their army and just leave them alone to live.

Show quote history

Because it has been tried and when there was quiet, Hamas used the time to build up weapons stores and plot attacks i.e. 7 October - but then those saying just stop already know that.

stomachameleon · 05/12/2023 13:23

@OuiOuiKitty I never said whose land it had to be just that I thought it was a good idea. No need for all guns blazing.... there should be a compromise.

OuiOuiKitty · 05/12/2023 13:23

SOBplus · 05/12/2023 13:04

Because it has been tried and when there was quiet, Hamas used the time to build up weapons stores and plot attacks i.e. 7 October - but then those saying just stop already know that.

Show quote history

When? When exactly do you think Israel fucked off and left them in peace? Not before 7/10, I don't know why you bring that up as an example?

NeonSoda · 05/12/2023 13:27

SOBplus · 05/12/2023 13:04

Because it has been tried and when there was quiet, Hamas used the time to build up weapons stores and plot attacks i.e. 7 October - but then those saying just stop already know that.

Show quote history

Before the 7th of October, the Israeli government were very much still persecuting Palestinians.

OuiOuiKitty · 05/12/2023 13:31

stomachameleon · 05/12/2023 13:23

@OuiOuiKitty I never said whose land it had to be just that I thought it was a good idea. No need for all guns blazing.... there should be a compromise.

I don’t agree. Israel uses buffer zones as a means to terrorise Palestinians. Israel should have as big a buffer zone as they like in Israel and if someone enters Israel from Gaza they can do what they like. Kids should be able to play where ever they like in Gaza. Farmers should be able to farm where there is fertile land. Palestinians should be able to do what they like in Gaza. They shouldn't be threatened with guns as they do it. Gaza is small enough and has been controlled for long enough by Israel.

stomachameleon · 05/12/2023 13:50

@OuiOuiKitty you are not making any sense and I haven't disagreed with you.
'If someone enters Israel from Gaza they can do what they like'
Of course that isn't going to work. Look what they have done.
Stay that side of the buffer. They have no reason to be in Israel. They can do what they like in Gaza.

Parker231 · 05/12/2023 14:19

stomachameleon · 05/12/2023 13:50

@OuiOuiKitty you are not making any sense and I haven't disagreed with you.
'If someone enters Israel from Gaza they can do what they like'
Of course that isn't going to work. Look what they have done.
Stay that side of the buffer. They have no reason to be in Israel. They can do what they like in Gaza.

Stay that side of the buffer. They have no reason to be in Israel. They can do what they like in Gaza.

So it’s ok to stop someone from Gaza coming into Israel? In that case Israelis need to stay out of Gaza.

OuiOuiKitty · 05/12/2023 14:52

stomachameleon · 05/12/2023 13:50

@OuiOuiKitty you are not making any sense and I haven't disagreed with you.
'If someone enters Israel from Gaza they can do what they like'
Of course that isn't going to work. Look what they have done.
Stay that side of the buffer. They have no reason to be in Israel. They can do what they like in Gaza.

Israel can do what they like to the people that enter Israel. Not any buffer they make up in Gaza. They shouldn't get to control people in Gaza like they have been doing for decades.

Gettingcolder · 05/12/2023 15:29

@Parker231 @OuiOuiKitty

Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2007. They have only retaliated when provoked by hostage taking and rocket fire, so I am not sure what control over Gazan's you are referring to other than Israel protecting its own borders and preventing Hamas from importing weapons.

OuiOuiKitty · 05/12/2023 15:51

Gettingcolder · 05/12/2023 15:29

@Parker231 @OuiOuiKitty

Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2007. They have only retaliated when provoked by hostage taking and rocket fire, so I am not sure what control over Gazan's you are referring to other than Israel protecting its own borders and preventing Hamas from importing weapons.

I'm not arguing with someone who doesn't want to admit what Israel does. I'd rather spend my time working on the really boring Web design I've been procrastinating on 😴

feralunderclass · 05/12/2023 16:08

Gettingcolder · 05/12/2023 15:29

@Parker231 @OuiOuiKitty

Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2007. They have only retaliated when provoked by hostage taking and rocket fire, so I am not sure what control over Gazan's you are referring to other than Israel protecting its own borders and preventing Hamas from importing weapons.

They might have withdrawn settlements but have kept Gaza under siege ever since. This notion that Israel left and LT them get on with things is complete rubbish. EVERYTHING that is intended to go into Gaza is monitored and controlled. Water, food, building supplies, school books, medicine - even calories are controlled.

stomachameleon · 05/12/2023 17:11

@feralunderclass what happened to the water salinisation plants Israel left? How much water actually comes from Israel?

cauliflowerwaterfall · 05/12/2023 17:37

Rocket fire on Israeli civilians has been constant since withdrawal. To those who expect Israelis to sit there and solemnly let rockets land on their heads: err no. The best Israel can do is control components passing through its border and shoot them down. Gazans clearly are getting rockets from somewhere. If they can get hold of an endless supply of RPGs and Kalashnikovs, water pipes and chocolate biscuits should be easy. But no Hamas dig them up and turn them into rockets too because they don’t care about civilians. Gazan life would be so much easier if they gave up on trying to kill Jews.

NotABeliever · 05/12/2023 17:40

For all of you who believe the Israeli government's narrative, please listen to this interview and educate yourselves.

edition.cnn.com/videos/tv/2023/12/04/amanpour-state-epartment-official-resignation-josh-paul.cnn

feralunderclass · 05/12/2023 18:43

stomachameleon · 05/12/2023 17:11

@feralunderclass what happened to the water salinisation plants Israel left? How much water actually comes from Israel?

This fact sheet explains Israel's occupation of water in Gaza and illegal tapping and water extraction for the illegal settlements. It is virtually impossible for Palestinians to get a permit.

Israel's Occupation of Water

The Occupation of Water

The legacy of Israel’s 50-year occupation of the Palestinian territories has been systematic human rights violations on a mass scale. One of its consequences is the impact of Israel’s discriminatory policies on Palestinians’ access to clean and safe wa...

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/11/the-occupation-of-water/

OkInSmallDoses · 05/12/2023 20:02

That report is depressing. I do not understand the West’s inability to see what is going on.

The Israeli government has oppressed and controlled the Palestinians for so long, whilst managing to dominate the narrative and make us see them as victims.

Whilst children are being maimed and killed. Hamas may be using civilians as human shields but carpet bombing those civilians is not the only option.

They say their goal is to get rid of Hamas but if they think they’re going to do that by carpet bombing Gaza they are idiots. Every Palestinian child who has lost a parent or sibling in this genocide is a future recruit for Hamas.

The only positive of this sorry episode is that more people, Jews included, are waking up to the evils and lies of the Israeli government.

Outofmydepthnow · 05/12/2023 21:49

So I ask AGAIN ! Why can't Arab countries organise a humanitarian lift of women and children out of Gaza via the Rafa crossing ? Along the lines of the kinder transport against the Nazi take over of Germany in the face of overwhelming odds ?

EasterIssland · 05/12/2023 22:01

Outofmydepthnow · 05/12/2023 21:49

So I ask AGAIN ! Why can't Arab countries organise a humanitarian lift of women and children out of Gaza via the Rafa crossing ? Along the lines of the kinder transport against the Nazi take over of Germany in the face of overwhelming odds ?

Any reason why it has to be the Arabs? Why not the uk? Such a big net was created to host Ukrainians … is there any difference between an Ukrainian child and a Palestinian one?

RedToothBrush · 05/12/2023 22:38

Outofmydepthnow · 05/12/2023 21:49

So I ask AGAIN ! Why can't Arab countries organise a humanitarian lift of women and children out of Gaza via the Rafa crossing ? Along the lines of the kinder transport against the Nazi take over of Germany in the face of overwhelming odds ?

A news article from last month:
https://www.itv.com/news/2023-11-04/britons-being-used-as-bargaining-chips-as-rafah-crossing-temporarily-closed

A British woman has been denied passage from Gaza to Egypt via the Rafah crossing for a second time, with her mother claiming foreign nationals are being "used as bargaining chips".

Zaynab Wandawi, 29, from Salford, Greater Manchester, travelled to Gaza in early October with her British-Palestinian husband and his relatives for a wedding before the Israel-Hamas war began.

Ms Wandawi, an English language teacher, and a group of 12 family members – 10 of whom are British nationals – attempted to cross the border into Egypt on Wednesday, but were told their names were not on the list.

The group were told their names were on the list on Saturday, but were turned away again amid disagreement between the Palestinian and Israeli authorities in control of the crossing, according to her mother, Lalah Ali-Faten.

My bold. Only people approved and agreed by Palestinian and Israeli authorities have been allowed to cross, because this is who controls the exit. Its not just about Egypt controlling the entrance to their country.

paladium · 05/12/2023 22:40

@RedToothBrush why does Israel have a say in who crosses the Egypt / Palestine border?

Paul2023 · 05/12/2023 22:41

I know this is very obvious, but it’s so hard watching the news and seeing young children hurt, being treated on a hospital floor

Paul2023 · 05/12/2023 22:42

I can’t see Isreal stopping until Hamas are gone and who knows how long that will take..

NotABeliever · 05/12/2023 22:44

paladium · 05/12/2023 22:40

@RedToothBrush why does Israel have a say in who crosses the Egypt / Palestine border?

Because Israel controls everything to do with Gaza since before this war. And because other countries don't dare to interfere because the Israeli government can get away with anything.