Why Can't Gazans Leave?

[miniaturepixieonacid]

There is probably a very simple answer to this that I missed in early news reports.

It's so awful watching News Feeds that essentially seem to say that Gazans are having to move around in a cat and mouse game with the IDF to avoid bombs but have nowhere left to go.

I am very aware that war has casualties and other countries are at war. I am not necessarily saying that IDF should stop fighting.

But this war is different in that all civilians seem to be trapped. Normally war creates refugees. Ukrainians, Afghans, Syrians - they were able to get out. Not all, I know, but movement was an option and it kept civilian casualties down. Why can't Gazans leave Gaza?

And why was there mass Jewish immigration?

Oh for goodness sakes. You've not actually addressed the point I'm making.
I get it, I really do. They were being persecuted and wanted a homeland to feel safe. I can understand that, I don't however agree with how they've achieved that. And in the end are they safe now?

@cauliflowerwaterfall thank you for your continued attempts to explain the history and some of the current issues in such a calm and reasoned way. I appreciate the time you are putting into these posts.

I hope the next week + brings you lots of doughnuts.

To put it in perspective, in the 1940s around 40-60 million people were displaced. Even if they hadn’t just survived a genocide (some of them two in <50 years) the supposedly European Jews (and we had been rejected by Europeans in the most extreme ways imaginable) quite literally didn’t have homes to go to, millions of Europeans themselves didn’t even have homes to go to. Two years after the war there were still almost a million people living in dire conditions in refugee camps, with nowhere to be repatriated to. The UN had a massive job figuring out what to do, and the refugees themselves had very little say. On top of that there were also people being expelled by countries as recriminations after the war. Lots of countries including the US and UK were accepting enormous amounts of refugees and trying to integrate them. At the same time you also have the beginning of the enormous process of decolonisation, with massive spaces like Africa and the Middle East being carved up into smaller self-governing states - this was not a peaceful process in a lot of places.

On a massive scale the UN was trying to find space for millions of people and carve up colonised/occupied land into small territories consisting of relatively unified peoples that would get along well enough for them to be stable. This sometimes involved moving people against their wishes.

What was happening in the Levant was happening everywhere, it was happening to Palestine’s neighbours. It is so strange to complain about mass immigration in the Levant when mass immigration was happening everywhere, just because they were Jews. Most Jews did not go to the Levant and unlike with the Jews and the Holocaust there was also a clear opportunity for the process to happen peacefully which was not taken.

Which is why it’s so strange that after two wars that completely transformed the entire planet and uprooted tens of millions, 80 years later we are utterly transfixed on 1% of all displaced people in the 1940s. To the point of not caring about either the 99% or all the displaced people who came after like the MENA Jews. It’s because of antisemitism.

Thank you! I am dreaming of doughnuts and latkes already!

This is such a helpful explanation with just the right tone too. Thank you for this. It should go on every "conflict" thread!

Hag sameach

"80 years later we are utterly transfixed on 1% of all displaced people in the 1940s."

Yes, because those people are being brutally oppressed and genocided in a horrific war. HTH.

If it's any consolation to you, the United Nations, Amnesty, Human Rights watch and other major human rights organisations are also very fucking concerned about these people.

So, I think it's pretty safe to say we can be certain they are deserving of our concern and attention.

But don't worry, it's just "1% of displaced people". Nothing to see here, time to move on people...🙄

We should always be concerned about oppression and human rights, war crimes and genocide. WHOEVER it is being done to. And that includes Palestinians.

United Nations, Amnesty, Human Rights watch

I personally consider all of these discredited at this point. The UN’s reaction to the Oct 7th attack has been abysmal

@ElevenSeven yes I suppose it makes sense to smear an organisation who are calling out Israel's war crimes if they don't want them highlighted.

I'd argue the attempted smearing just gives the organisations more credence in most people's eyes. A bit like the Streisand effect.

At least they are actually calling out the war crimes as they see it, unlike US, UK and some other Western countries.

Agree… at this point I don’t even know what to do when people try quoting the UN at me because it’s like the world is playing some sick joke on Jewish people.

The same UN took 57 days to confirm the mass r—e of Israeli women and children. One hostage reported being held in a UN teacher’s house. The UN has completely ignored October 7th, completely ignored the hostages, was denouncing Israel before it had taken any action whatsoever. UN textbooks used in Palestine STILL contain incitement to violence against Jews. The UN is completely transparent in the way it singles out and gangs up on the world’s only Jewish state. The UN is keeping Palestinians in perpetual refugee status.

Amnesty is awful too - refused to adopt the IHRA definition, both-sidesing October 7th, ignoring the hostages, etc.

Just because an organisation has a fancy name doesn’t mean they’re actually good.

There are a lot of big names coming out to declare it a clear cut genocide. Such as the former ICC chief prosecutor.

But of course, he's just lying isn't he, he's biased, he's incompetent and the ICC is shit (sarcastic).

Some people are just so deep in the misinformation - no single truth can be agreed on.

Gaza wasn’t occupied
Gaza could have been a Monaco 😂
All aid into Gaza goes to fund Hamas.

babies from Gaza will grow up to be a danger to Israelis anyway so their lives have less value.
The Israeli authorities are doing their best to avoid civilian casualties.
The high death toll of civilians and in particular children is because Hamas use them as human shields.
The numbers of dead are just made up by Hamas anyway - nothing to see here folks just the most moral army trying to rid the world of evil.
The UN, the WHO, The International Criminal Court, Human Rights Watch. Amnesty international and Israeli based human rights organizations like B'Tselem are all anti semitic/compromised for disagreeing with all of the above.

Using anti semitism as a stick to beat organisations that critique the current actions of the Israeli authorities is not a good idea. It discredits real anti semitism.

If you’re going to be sarcastic in response to institutional antisemitism then there’s not much I can say. Jews feel utterly failed by the international community and so when we are offered yet another lecture from people who frankly don’t care for us or our survival we’re hardly going to say “let me pull up a chair”.

The simple fact is, this conflict is treated unlike any other on the planet and that’s because of antisemitism. The reason much of the world has gone along with the bizarre narrative constructed after 1948 is because it sees military defeat by Jews as the ultimate humiliation from which a population can never recover.

The paradox about antisemitism is that it treats Jews both as inferiors and as all-knowing/all-powerful. This means that the world sees any power Jews hold as too much and any time Jews exercise it as too excessive. If someone throws a live IED at a soldier and is shot, anywhere else in the world it would be seen as reasonable force. When you find out the soldier is a Jew, you devalue their life so much that ANY use of force in his/her defence is by definition excessive, and hey presto it’s a war crime.

Every second house in Gaza has an entrance to the terror tunnels according to the UK-Israeli Ambassador. They are just making stuff up at this stage and will continue to do so.

https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1731594849722204562

Ukranians are not murderous terrorists who will ultimately turn on their hosts. Hamas are. Other Muslim countries do not want to see their countries.destabilised.

I absolutely agree with this^ .
it was always surprising for me that Egypt and other Arab countries didn’t want to let Palestinians in. I wonder why, it can’t be about numbers.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/why-egypt-and-other-arab-nations-are-hesitant-to-take-in-palestinian-refugees

More information on why Egypt and other countries not keen on taking in refugees from Palestine.

@pizzaHeart because they are fans of trying to over throw a government. See Lebanon, Syria and Jordan. And cause problems.

So no one is having them willingly. I wish people could see that when they complain (rightly) about the children. Other countries see Hamas as such a threat they won't even agree to temporarily take in women and children!

Why would they feel failed by the international community when most western governments have been supporting them. I honestly can’t really understand the level of delusion you are under that you think all these organisations are just anti Jews. Do you see them as racist in other ways? Or is it just against Jews? Not all Jewish people support the Israeli authorities anyway.

I completely agree that Israel seems to be held to a different standard than other countries. They blatantly disregard international law and the US, the UK and many in the EU clap them on.

This Israeli government is putting an ideology before it’s people. Their actions will do nothing to make ordinary Israeli’s safer. This is not a path to peace. Even the US are warning them that they are pushing Gazan’s into the arms of the enemy. What is the reason for their criticism? Have they just gone anti semitic too?

Unfortunately there are a lot of negative stereotypes about Palestinian people in the Arab world despite the sympathy they obviously feel. And a lot of frustration on Palestinian leaders for not making peace. Egypt doesn’t want a war with Israel and they are afraid they will accidentally let in militants who attack Israel from Egypt. Jordan/Egypt are also thriving economies and they are worried refugees they take temporarily will never leave (they are probably right - refugees don’t typically want to be uprooted again and again and again - but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t take them). It’s a rubbish situation all round.

Isn't this just an argument for why they need a safe place to call their own though? Israel needs to back off on the occupying, back off on the pilfering, back off on the controlling and just let them live. Not once in 75 years has Israel actually just fucked off and let them live in peace. Why don't they try that? Round up their settlers, round up their army and just leave them alone to live.

@OuiOuiKitty actually I Don't disagree with that. I would increase the buffer zone and let them get on with it. I would not provide another thing and let a peace keeping force sort out infrastructure etc. Funnel money direct to them rather than unwra. Let people live in peace.

Doesn't solve Hamas and the ' we want to kill you all bit' does it though? And I think it would leave Egypt in a very precarious position.

Well no, why should Israel get to steal more land and call it a 'buffer zone' they already call 1/3 of land suitable for agriculture a 'buffer zone'. You don't get to just say 'yoink, I'll have that' it isn't Israels to take. The arrogance needed to presume it is astounding.