Do lots of people support Hamas?

[elprup]

I just read this story and it is absolutely horrific

I saw ten Hamas terrorists beat and gang-rape an Israeli woman

https://mol.im/a/12820081

Is everyone on the pro-Palestine marches in London solely supporting the innocent civilians of Palestine (as I do too)? Or are there some people on these marches supporting the actions of Hamas as well?

I want to join the marches in support of innocent adults and kids in Gaza (and I would want to march for the same reasons on any pro Israel marches too), but I do not want to endorse Hamas in any shape or form. They are absolutely vile.

There is also a not at all carefully constructed narrative that Israeli civilians are basically asking for it due to the actions if their government, but hey ho.

Rachel Corrie was a brave and lovely person. May she rest in peace and may we continue to remember her.

Deleted - already done! If you replace "Palestine" with Israel - same sentence - its offensive.

@Circularargument "There is also a not at all carefully constructed narrative that Israeli civilians are basically asking for it due to the actions if their government, but hey ho."

Could you show any MSM outlet, or responsible journalist or British politician who holds and expresses this view? For

Beg pardon? I have no idea why you're trying to put this smear onto me. My post saying "this" I was simply agreeing with @Chaitales that IDF have done an abundance of terrible things as per her list posted earlier. As have Hamas. I didn't quote the post I was replying to though and I see an earlier one was deleted but I have no idea what that was. But I was replying to her list.

I have never said any person deserves anything horrible happening to them and never would. Nor would i ever even think such a thing. Stop smearing and putting words in my mouth falsely.

I condemn Hamas and their terrorist atrocities and I condemn how the IDF behave as chaitales listed in her post.

Enough with the bloody smearing. Thanks.

If you believe that Israel should not be allowed to defend itself, you are supporting Hamas.

Literally nobody said that Jewish victims were asking for it.

My deleted post was asking how it would be taken if we replace the word "Palestine" with ANY other country in many of the posts here, given that posters are free to say Palestinians are terrorists/combatants/Gaza should be flushed away with water to get rid of Hamas.

Its smear tactics and putting words into our mouths.

That's a very far leap

Is there no grey area?
Palestinians have a right to exist in peace in their homeland
Jewish people have a right to their own state
Any terrorist organisation should be condemned and not supported
Any loss of life is a disgrace and a tragedy
Israel should defend itself
Palestine should defend itself
Civilian lives must be protected
Children should be protected

What is wrong with you people ... Do you realise how weird you sound to the rest of the world? ...

Thank you @Chaitales .

If Israel is not allowed to defend itself, it will be wiped off the map by Hamas terrorists (this is not an exaggeration, it is their stated aim) and Israeli civilians too. Why is that so hard to understand?

If you believe that indiscriminate bombardments of civilians are "self-defense", if you believe that some ~20k dead (using Euromed Monitor estimates here rather than the lower "Hamas" figures) and ~1m homeless and displaced people are "self-defense" ... if you believe that carpet bombing people's homes on the off chance that there may or may not be one low-level Hamas operative might or might not be there is "self-defense", and if you genuinely believe that starving 2.3 million people in order to get at some estimated 30k Hamas operatives is "self-defense" ...

... then, sorry, not sorry: then you and your moral compass urgently need some attention!

The truth is: the Israeli response stinks of "revenge" at this point. And it is ugly to the core! This is not "self-defence", it is "vengeance - but we have nukes!".

It gets worse: the reports that a new AI is being used to identify targets at an unprecedented pace at present also stinks of "business opportunity" at this point! As a tech industry executive, I have come across the "tested on vulnerable populations - it works" pitch more times than I care to remember. It makes me feel physically sick! We have had it with "look how good our tech is at spying on dissidents" tech - and now we have "look at how good our tech is at taking out fucking 5-year-olds"! It makes me want to projectile vomit! It also makes me seriously consider whether or not I might have to resign from my cushy executive position in protest!

And, ... before anyone calls me a conspiracy theorist: this is the original reporting - various international media, including UK based ones, have since picked it up - but this is the OG report: https://www.972mag.com/mass-assassination-factory-israel-calculated-bombing-gaza/

Hama initiated this - what would you have Israel do? Hamas is not "defending itself" against Israel, that's absurd. On Oct 7th they carried out the most gruesome terrorist attack in living memory, with the stated aim of eliminating Israel and killing the Jews. Israel is defending itself by seeking to eliminate those who want them dead. That's how war works.

Obviously civilians and children should be protected. It's bizarre that you made that leap between Israel having a right to defend itself, and children and civilians not having the right to protection.

That's clickbait headlines and shows a real lack of understanding of any of the geopolitics in the area.

Is shooting journalists in the head (like Shireen AA) defending itself
Or bulldozing Rachel Corrie
Or pulling children out of their beds in the middle of the night and imprisoning them
Or settlers attacking homes in WB
Or burning down hundreds and hundreds of olive trees?

How is Israel defending itself through those actions

How is burning down hundreds of trees that have grown and bloomed through the blessings of God showing your love and belonging to a land that you claim is yours given by God...

This did not begin on October 7th

HUNDRED of Palestinian civilians have been killed in Israel in 2022 and 2023 alone.
HUNDREDS of people - elderly, women, children fasting and praying in Jerusalems Al Aqsa mosque are tear gassed tied up and beaten every Ramadan

This did not begin on October 7th
This did not begin on October 7th

Who is “you people”? And why would the rest of the world even be aware of how “you people” sound?

I really don't understand why this has to be said over and over again. It's like only Israeli pain registers with some people, the pain Palestinians have been put through for decades doesn't matter because Israel were fine and dandy.

I know. I feel like we have been saying this straight up for weeks.

Its ridiculous and honestly not even worth engaging anymore

MN has shown us the worst of society

Im out

@Locknkey
Spot on.

I've stopped engaging when people say things like Gaza has been free since 2005, or Hamas started it or well why don't they have their own water. At this stage it isn't lack of knowledge, it's just that they don't actually care about Palestinians and that's fine, everyone is free to be who they want to be but it's a waste of time engaging with it. The time when I thought people might grow a conscience was about 15,000 dead Palestinian civillians ago, if it hasn't happened by now it really is never going to happen, nothing anyone can say and nothing Israel do will be able to change that.

I limit the amount I post, or at least, it's a lot less than previously.
I was told on a now deleted thread that I wouldn't be supporting "those people" (poster clarified they meant Palestinians and not specifically Hamas) if I knew what would happen if they came to the UK. Umm... work, visiting each other, having dinner together... Terrifying!

@chaitales Just trying to catch up, very odd that your post I quoted was deleted, I don't understand how it was against talk guidelines in the slightest.

Fun fact: there are tons of Palestinians in the UK!

The ones I personally know happen - disproportionately so - to be university lecturers and researchers as well as journalists and those in professional services!

It is almost as though Palestinians were well-educated, capable people fully ready and able to integrate into and succeed within British society!

Bronze age my arse!

(Not having a go at you, @ChickHenLittle , perfectly aware that this is not what you mean!)

Agreed, I know what you mean, comments concerned about Palestinians coming to the UK always strike me as odd, I don't think my parents have been involved in so much as a minor scuffle in their entire lives! People are much more accepting offline, I've found. There are plenty of criminals in every country who were born and bred there, being from the UK (for example), doesn't make someone less likely to be violent/nasty/a threat.

The education level of people in Gaza is actually slightly above the global average. I have a graph somewhere on in my downloads that I got from an article about life in Gaza

So yes Gazens are majority well educated and therefore shouldn't have problems finding employment or blending into most societies/cultures/countries