Do lots of people support Hamas?

[elprup]

I just read this story and it is absolutely horrific

I saw ten Hamas terrorists beat and gang-rape an Israeli woman

https://mol.im/a/12820081

Is everyone on the pro-Palestine marches in London solely supporting the innocent civilians of Palestine (as I do too)? Or are there some people on these marches supporting the actions of Hamas as well?

I want to join the marches in support of innocent adults and kids in Gaza (and I would want to march for the same reasons on any pro Israel marches too), but I do not want to endorse Hamas in any shape or form. They are absolutely vile.

@BabaBarrio Isn't it just Orwellian! Disturbing to think that supposedly intelligent people come to such wild conclusions about our beliefs based on what we DON'T say. And even when someone outwardly condemns Hamas they'll still often throw the accusation at them for not being critical enough. Strange and scary times for humanity if this is the really the way people think.

No idea why you are addressing me about the IT trick. It wasn't my method or idea.

Though the idea of a spreadsheet and graph does amuse me. I like a nice graph.

I did state that I normally judge posts by the many posts I have read of their if a regular user or something along those lines. If you take offence at that you should probably stop posting. I am us regulars all judge each other on the many previous posts we have read. Therefore this is just natural human psychology.

Unless you have something actually to say about one of my posts or opinions please don't tag me

You've summarised this very well.

You both get you are on a thread about whether people support Hamas right?

Plus you are now both doing what you accused others of doing. There it kind of seems you have other reasons to call out those posters on this thread

Nope

The poster has just done what they are accusing other of doing

Therefore what is this all actually about?

Here is a brave Iranian man who seems to have found a few Hamas supporters at a protest

@Trulywonderful you're honestly making no sense.

The text of your post claimed you judge people based on what they don't say, in the context of whether you think they support Hamas or are anti-semitic or whatever.

"It isn't always what they say but more what they don't say"

Me and the PP were pointing out that this is a disturbingly Orwellian way to judge people and make such claims.

Struggling to work out the meaning of your reply TBH. It isn't very clear.

I was wondering if these data analyst types were going all math nerd too. As in where would you draw the line between silent Hamas supporter and pacifist? Do we need to say “I condemn Hamas, the 7th of October was an atrocity” in 50% of our posts? 75%? 90%? to be in their green zone? It’s all so arbitrary and flawed.

@BabaBarrio I'm starting to think it might be in 100% of posts, based on this thread and the way others go.

For the record: I categorically condemn Hamas.

I believe Israel started its retaliatory bombing on October 17th ?

I wasn’t addressing you about an IT trick, but your thought process which was 90% of your post. Here it is as a reminder:
”I just normally go on the hundreds of posts by some users that barely mention anything negative about Hamas or try to change the conversation if something negative is discussed (We seem to have a live one of those on this thread currently)

It is simpler to the antisemitism in working out what and who you are dealing with. It isn't always what they say but more what they don't say”

^This is Orwellian thought police stuff. As in you think you know what posters think based on what they do not and have not said.

We have a huge problem with Islamism in this country. Many people do support anyone who fights Israel. There are also a lot of useless idiots.

You have taken an extract out of a whole posts to make it look like something it is not

I explained that I judge people other all the posts I see them write. It isn't about individual posts. I make a judgement about a poster on the thread we are writing on and what I have seen them write previously on different threads. If you guys don't do the same that is very interesting but not normal psychology for social media.

No idea why you want to tag me. I was just responding to another poster explaining an IT hack to see how people post. Unless people are worried about how they post that shouldn't be an issue. However still it wasn't my idea or my suggestion. So this is just derailing a thread that is anti Hamas, which is rather a rather odd thing to do really.

This is truly ironic. Have you read 1984?
A typical Orwellian scenario is where neighbours report on each other - and by reporting to MN is Orwellian in nature.
I don't like Wiki but this is very succinctly put:
" It denotes an attitude and a brutal policy of draconian control by propaganda, surveillance, disinformation, denial of truth (doublethink), and manipulation of the past,"

I think Truly is making perfect sense as we are complicit in our silence and silence is not Orwellian in the 1984 sense of the word.

No. They scrambled fighter jets and were bombing Gaza by 06:45am (GMT) on the 7th of October.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/10/7/israel-palestine-escalation-live-news-barrage-of-rockets-fired-from-gaza

See you are wrong here. The thought police in 1984 used surveillance and informers - eg telescreens, cameras, mikes, etc - not thinking what people do or do not and have not said - but what they actually do.

Maybe we could get Mumsnet to make a little I Condemn Hamas Tag to put by everyone's user name or something

However that would end up looking as eeekk as twitter with various other Tag. So probably not a good idea

You really need to read 1984 in its entirety to understand the Orwellian thought police. It’s so much more than the single sentence you have lifted from Wiki. The film based on the book doesn’t even cover everything in the book.

No, sorry, but you are incorrect. The thought police monitored both what people said and did and also the lack of what the State thought they should say and do.

@ohforheavenssakedearcomeonnow yes I've read it, thanks for the patronising "explanation" though.

Hence I recognised the Orwellian nature of the PP's thought process and agreed when @BabaBarrio pointed it out.

This whole thread is about how much support Hamas has / or hasn’t got .
So … interesting to see who chooses to come on this thread to spend far more time condemning Israel than condemning Hamas.
Sometimes that reads like an attempt to suggest that Hamas’ actions are acceptable ( in the context of Israeli oppression. )
Re - “What people don’t say “…. Some ridiculous comments about it being like 1984. This is a discussion on Mumsnet . Of course silence / lack of comment can be as eloquent as words . That is basic emotional intelligence.

You forgot to mention multiple posts off topic to derail the thread

Yes - let’s talk about 1984 instead …

I haven’t been on the entire thread, but I saw enough to see that initial posts saying they don’t know of anyone who supports Hamas’ but there may be a few extremists out there that do was met with claim that pro-Palestinian protests were full of Hamas supporters, which was met with people who were at the marches saying that’s not that they saw, most people just want a ceasefire to save lives, and most of the handfuls arrested were usually far right counter protesters, not Hamas/terrorism supporters, various faulty memories of Oct 7th have been used to pull the protests out of context alleging they began before Israel started its retaliation so must be celebrating Oct 7th (temporally impossible).

The thread moved on to allegations towards posters on MN for being ‘silent Hamas supporters’ and ‘antisemites’ for not condemning Hamas frequently enough, on every thread, every day since Oct 7th. So then of course, posters are being a defensive, myself included, as this is a tired old smear and MN should consider treating it like the banned troll hunting so closely resembles.

At 6:30am on Oct 7th, Hamas fired a barrage of rockets at Southern Israel from Gaza (Hamas claimed they fired 5000, IDF claimed it was half that), under the cover of which they launched their ground attack. I can’t find in the Al Jazeera report where it says the IDF returned fire at 6:45am, this Reuters report has a very comprehensive timeline and says it was 9:45am. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/how-hamas-attack-israel-unfolded-2023-10-07/

Timings aside, if Hamas fires large numbers of rockets at Israel, the IDF responds with… a large number of rockets. The IDF were bombing positions the Hamas rockets originated from, as they were still being fired from Gaza into Israel. What should the IDF response have been?

Edited my terrible punctuation.