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Conflict in the Middle East
Original poster

Do lots of people support Hamas?

691 replies

elprup · 03/12/2023 20:33

I just read this story and it is absolutely horrific

I saw ten Hamas terrorists beat and gang-rape an Israeli woman

https://mol.im/a/12820081

Is everyone on the pro-Palestine marches in London solely supporting the innocent civilians of Palestine (as I do too)? Or are there some people on these marches supporting the actions of Hamas as well?

I want to join the marches in support of innocent adults and kids in Gaza (and I would want to march for the same reasons on any pro Israel marches too), but I do not want to endorse Hamas in any shape or form. They are absolutely vile.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
49
BabaBarrio · 04/12/2023 23:42

Trulywonderful · 04/12/2023 23:32

You forgot to mention multiple posts off topic to derail the thread

You mean all your laughy emojis and character assassination posts? Those in glass houses should not throw stones.

marvellousceiling · 04/12/2023 23:44

BabaBarrio · 04/12/2023 23:41

I haven’t been on the entire thread, but I saw enough to see that initial posts saying they don’t know of anyone who supports Hamas’ but there may be a few extremists out there that do was met with claim that pro-Palestinian protests were full of Hamas supporters, which was met with people who were at the marches saying that’s not that they saw, most people just want a ceasefire to save lives, and most of the handfuls arrested were usually far right counter protesters, not Hamas/terrorism supporters, various faulty memories of Oct 7th have been used to pull the protests out of context alleging they began before Israel started its retaliation so must be celebrating Oct 7th (temporally impossible).

The thread moved on to allegations towards posters on MN for being ‘silent Hamas supporters’ and ‘antisemites’ for not condemning Hamas frequently enough, on every thread, every day since Oct 7th. So then of course, posters are being a defensive, myself included, as this is a tired old smear and MN should consider treating it like the banned troll hunting so closely resembles.

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@BabaBarrio I too have not read every page so if I missed some slating of Israel I apologise. But our recent posts are in context of the wider thread and the natural discussion. They're not supporting Israel but discussing why some posters might be unfairly branded as Hamas supporters. Which of course relates to the OP. Just a natural progression of the discussion of the OP.

BabaBarrio · 04/12/2023 23:48

25milesfromhome · 04/12/2023 23:41

At 6:30am on Oct 7th, Hamas fired a barrage of rockets at Southern Israel from Gaza (Hamas claimed they fired 5000, IDF claimed it was half that), under the cover of which they launched their ground attack. I can’t find in the Al Jazeera report where it says the IDF returned fire at 6:45am, this Reuters report has a very comprehensive timeline and says it was 9:45am. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/how-hamas-attack-israel-unfolded-2023-10-07/

Timings aside, if Hamas fires large numbers of rockets at Israel, the IDF responds with… a large number of rockets. The IDF were bombing positions the Hamas rockets originated from, as they were still being fired from Gaza into Israel. What should the IDF response have been?

Edited my terrible punctuation.

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Yes. 06:45am (GMT) is 09:45am local time for Israel.
This isn’t about what should have happened, this is about posters claiming that people waving Palestinian flags in London the evening of Oct 7th to “a mere 48hrs later” or before “Oct 17th” were doing so before Israel began it’s retaliation.

These claims are temporally impossible. No one was waving Palestinian flags on the streets of London before Israel began its bombardment of Gaza.

Trulywonderful · 04/12/2023 23:50

BabaBarrio · 04/12/2023 23:42

You mean all your laughy emojis and character assassination posts? Those in glass houses should not throw stones.

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I responded to posts I was tagged on and others I was involved in

I didn't start this, so again you seem desperate to derail and also accus me of things I haven't done

Trust me if I was to call you out you or any individual out it would be done very clearly and properly. You would know it happened. Now stop tagging me for no reason other than to derail

BabaBarrio · 04/12/2023 23:51

marvellousceiling · 04/12/2023 23:44

@BabaBarrio I too have not read every page so if I missed some slating of Israel I apologise. But our recent posts are in context of the wider thread and the natural discussion. They're not supporting Israel but discussing why some posters might be unfairly branded as Hamas supporters. Which of course relates to the OP. Just a natural progression of the discussion of the OP.

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I agree that is what the thread seemed to have progressed on to from what I could tell as well.

BabaBarrio · 04/12/2023 23:53

Trulywonderful · 04/12/2023 23:50

I responded to posts I was tagged on and others I was involved in

I didn't start this, so again you seem desperate to derail and also accus me of things I haven't done

Trust me if I was to call you out you or any individual out it would be done very clearly and properly. You would know it happened. Now stop tagging me for no reason other than to derail

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I’m responding to your posts. This is a public forum. There is no talk guideline of speak only when spoken to (tagged).

Trulywonderful · 04/12/2023 23:57

You do all realise that it makes no difference that Israel fired at Hamas rocket lurchers because Hamas started firing rockets during the pogrom don't you?

The thing that started this argument was that Hamas supporters in London were out celebrating the pogrom. Which is backed up by videos available on YouTube. They were waving flags in the street and lighting flares in multiple places around London. All this happened straight after the pogrom before any intense bombing happened. Even then Hamas supporters were out in the streets of London, so nothing to argue about there. It happened there are videos and lots of posters and people on twitter saw it.

marvellousceiling · 04/12/2023 23:57

@BabaBarrio Apparently now discussing the OP is derailing, confusing.

Trulywonderful · 04/12/2023 23:57

BabaBarrio · 04/12/2023 23:53

I’m responding to your posts. This is a public forum. There is no talk guideline of speak only when spoken to (tagged).

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🙃

Limeandsodaontherocks · 05/12/2023 00:00

BabaBarrio · 04/12/2023 23:48

Yes. 06:45am (GMT) is 09:45am local time for Israel.
This isn’t about what should have happened, this is about posters claiming that people waving Palestinian flags in London the evening of Oct 7th to “a mere 48hrs later” or before “Oct 17th” were doing so before Israel began it’s retaliation.

These claims are temporally impossible. No one was waving Palestinian flags on the streets of London before Israel began its bombardment of Gaza.

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I thought the bombing was much later - my mistake.
But even so - the people celebrating in my part of London that evening were cheering and chanting about what Hamas did on Oct 7th. It’s still shocking - not sure how the timing changes that .

Trulywonderful · 05/12/2023 00:04

Just to mention I am not the OP and I don't think the OP has posted anything in quite a while

So.....

25milesfromhome · 05/12/2023 00:07

BabaBarrio · 04/12/2023 23:48

Yes. 06:45am (GMT) is 09:45am local time for Israel.
This isn’t about what should have happened, this is about posters claiming that people waving Palestinian flags in London the evening of Oct 7th to “a mere 48hrs later” or before “Oct 17th” were doing so before Israel began it’s retaliation.

These claims are temporally impossible. No one was waving Palestinian flags on the streets of London before Israel began its bombardment of Gaza.

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But that wasn’t when the “bombardment of Gaza” began and it’s a bit disingenuous to frame it as such. Israel was literally under attack on Oct 7th, they responded to Hamas rocket fire with rocket fire. I think it’s quite reasonable to ask what you think they should have done under the circumstances? Many people celebrated Hamas’ attack that day, visibly and gleefully.

BabaBarrio · 05/12/2023 00:14

Limeandsodaontherocks · 05/12/2023 00:00

I thought the bombing was much later - my mistake.
But even so - the people celebrating in my part of London that evening were cheering and chanting about what Hamas did on Oct 7th. It’s still shocking - not sure how the timing changes that .

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Sure, you say you witnessed overt support for Hamas, I believe you on that as I know there are extremists of all types in London. It was more sweeping generalisation that everyone waving a Palestinian flag must be Hamas supporters because it was before Israel started their retaliation, when such timing could not have happened here in London. They’d have to have been in the streets from 04:45am to 06:45am (GMT).

BabaBarrio · 05/12/2023 00:16

25milesfromhome · 05/12/2023 00:07

But that wasn’t when the “bombardment of Gaza” began and it’s a bit disingenuous to frame it as such. Israel was literally under attack on Oct 7th, they responded to Hamas rocket fire with rocket fire. I think it’s quite reasonable to ask what you think they should have done under the circumstances? Many people celebrated Hamas’ attack that day, visibly and gleefully.

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Yes it was when it started. They didn’t respond to rocket fire with rocket fire. They scrambled fighter jets and did air strikes. Strikes which hit residential areas killing the first few hundred Palestinian civilians.

Yes it is reasonable to ask, but it is also reasonable for me to decline that particular derail.

marvellousceiling · 05/12/2023 00:19

Trulywonderful · 05/12/2023 00:04

Just to mention I am not the OP and I don't think the OP has posted anything in quite a while

So.....

When I said OP, (a few posts up), I was referring to the original post, not the original poster. I did not think you were the original poster, in case you are confused.

Trulywonderful · 05/12/2023 00:19

I think we can all agree that this person fully supports Hamas

Do lots of people support Hamas?
marvellousceiling · 05/12/2023 00:20

@Trulywonderful you've not actually condemned Hamas in your last few posts, do you have something to tell us? Is there something you're not saying (just teasing).

Trulywonderful · 05/12/2023 00:27

Again wasn't me that started that conversation. I just replied to what was being said.

However that is a funny joke

I may may a closet Hamas supporter for all you know. I am just really tricky and hide it amazingly well (Also a Joke)

25milesfromhome · 05/12/2023 00:35

BabaBarrio · 05/12/2023 00:16

Yes it was when it started. They didn’t respond to rocket fire with rocket fire. They scrambled fighter jets and did air strikes. Strikes which hit residential areas killing the first few hundred Palestinian civilians.

Yes it is reasonable to ask, but it is also reasonable for me to decline that particular derail.

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Decline away. Is it a derail though? Who derailed first? In a conversation about people celebrating Hamas’ attack before intense bombing of Gaza had begun, you interjected by presenting the IDF response to Hamas firing thousands of rockets into Israel and raping, torturing and murdering hundreds of civilians as “the bombardment of Gaza”. Which it wasn’t. That began after people had openly cheered and lauded a terrorist attack on the day it happened.

BabaBarrio · 05/12/2023 00:57

Trulywonderful · 04/12/2023 23:57

You do all realise that it makes no difference that Israel fired at Hamas rocket lurchers because Hamas started firing rockets during the pogrom don't you?

The thing that started this argument was that Hamas supporters in London were out celebrating the pogrom. Which is backed up by videos available on YouTube. They were waving flags in the street and lighting flares in multiple places around London. All this happened straight after the pogrom before any intense bombing happened. Even then Hamas supporters were out in the streets of London, so nothing to argue about there. It happened there are videos and lots of posters and people on twitter saw it.

No, Israel did not fire at Hamas rocket launchers, the IDF’s own press release regarding the first 21 air strikes done by 11am GMT didn’t even claim that and we know for a fact they hit residential buildings and an ambulance that morning. If you want to debate who did what, it would help to follow any of the timelines by reputable media that did the day by day live updates pages.

I note you have shifted from the temporally impossible before any retaliation and before any bombing to adding a qualifier of ”intense bombing” on there which is a not very ethical spin.

I have no doubt there were and are a few Hamas supporters, but so far the evidence for there being many Hamas supporters in the streets of London seems to be based on rewriting history and conflating support for Palestinians with support for Hamas to swell the numbers of actual Hamas supporters. As you are a poster that thinks not visibly condemning Hamas frequently and fervently enough means you silently support Hamas, I have to wonder at your soundness of reasoning.

I unequivocally condemn Hamas.

BabaBarrio · 05/12/2023 01:02

25milesfromhome · 05/12/2023 00:35

Decline away. Is it a derail though? Who derailed first? In a conversation about people celebrating Hamas’ attack before intense bombing of Gaza had begun, you interjected by presenting the IDF response to Hamas firing thousands of rockets into Israel and raping, torturing and murdering hundreds of civilians as “the bombardment of Gaza”. Which it wasn’t. That began after people had openly cheered and lauded a terrorist attack on the day it happened.

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The conversation at the time was not about Hamas supporters in the street prior to “intense” bombardment, it was said quite clearly as happening before “any retaliation” whatsoever. I interjected with the truth on that. Your adding “intense” on there is spin, and not in good faith.

Yes, the airstrikes was the start of the bombardment because from 06:45am (GMT) until the ceasefire it was continuous bombardment with no cessation.

It was impossible, in London at any rate, for the Gaza bombardment to have begun after people were in the streets with Palestinian flags. The streets were empty during that two hour window.

BabaBarrio · 05/12/2023 01:16

25milesfromhome · 05/12/2023 00:35

Decline away. Is it a derail though? Who derailed first? In a conversation about people celebrating Hamas’ attack before intense bombing of Gaza had begun, you interjected by presenting the IDF response to Hamas firing thousands of rockets into Israel and raping, torturing and murdering hundreds of civilians as “the bombardment of Gaza”. Which it wasn’t. That began after people had openly cheered and lauded a terrorist attack on the day it happened.

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You clearly have a very low opinion of the responsiveness of Israeli Defence Forces. Hamas terrorists were still murdering civilians and killing soldiers for at least 12hours after the Gaza bombardment began. Modern wars are not as slow moving as you seem to think they are, IDF was both defending and retaliating simultaneously.

Trulywonderful · 05/12/2023 01:20

And yet some people still deny events that a lot of people witnessed both in Israel and London on 7th October

Even though there is video evidence and eye witness statements as well as social media that confirms these things have happened

A lot of false accusations coming at me. This has happened on a couple of other threads today as well. Anyone would think some people are maybe desperate to discredit me. I must be doing something right to have got 3 stalkers in the last few weeks and now a smear campaign today😂

Trulywonderful · 05/12/2023 01:21

Israel, Israel, Israel, Israel

Not Hamas it seems

🙃

ohforheavenssakedearcomeonnow · 05/12/2023 01:24

Trulywonderful · 05/12/2023 01:20

And yet some people still deny events that a lot of people witnessed both in Israel and London on 7th October

Even though there is video evidence and eye witness statements as well as social media that confirms these things have happened

A lot of false accusations coming at me. This has happened on a couple of other threads today as well. Anyone would think some people are maybe desperate to discredit me. I must be doing something right to have got 3 stalkers in the last few weeks and now a smear campaign today😂

It's what people do when they find an eloquent, fair minded poster who thinks differently then they do...