Page 11 | Do lots of people support Hamas?

elprup · 2023-12-03T20:33:44+00:00

I just read this story and it is absolutely horrific I saw ten Hamas terrorists beat and gang-rape an Israeli woman [[https://mol.im/a/12820081 https://mol.im/a/12820081]] Is everyone on the pro-Palestine marches in London solely supporting the innocent civilians of Palestine (as I do too)? Or are there some people on these marches supporting the actions of Hamas as well? I want to join the marches in support of innocent adults and kids in Gaza (and I would want to march for the same reasons on any pro Israel marches too), but I do not want to endorse Hamas in any shape or form. They are absolutely vile.

MercanDede · 04/12/2023 15:19

Tryingmybestadhd · 04/12/2023 14:59

Or maybe because children are seen as something somewhat disposable ? I even have Palestinian colleagues telling me this .

It’s more the reality that if you are a Palestinian mother in Gaza, not all your children will survive to adulthood due to the dire living conditions and constant conflict. But as this has been going on since 1948, they don’t really have the choice to be childless without self-extincting their entire ethnicity and culture. The culture values enduring great loss with stoicism and carrying in the face of impossible odds.

Auvergne63 · 04/12/2023 15:20

backtowinter · 04/12/2023 14:56

@Auvergne63

Wow I don't even know where to start with this. There are so many fallacies that I don't have the time or the will to debunk them. *
*
It's ok, I don't think anyone is asking you to

This was a figure of speech. Anyway I don't need you to tell me what I can or can't do.

Depdawg · 04/12/2023 15:21

Katy231 · 04/12/2023 15:00

You are being disgustingly islamaphobic. If a Jew said they love their holy land and I called that person an extremist you would call me anti-Semitic.

You very well know it is one of the most holiest sites for Muslims.

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Oh do get a grip. She is extremist. It's that extremism that leads to terrorist attacks from any faith.
Yes but of course she loves her mosque that much she's willing to die for it.
That is something a child would say.
It's the means by which she is willing to sacrifice herself that comes into question.
I guess you're one of the posters, however, who doesn't apply your same 'rationale' to what does and doesn't represent antisemitism.

backtowinter · 04/12/2023 15:24

@Auvergne63 I don't recall anywhere telling you what you can and cannot do

I'd need to care enough and I just don't

MercanDede · 04/12/2023 15:30

Depdawg · 04/12/2023 15:21

Oh do get a grip. She is extremist. It's that extremism that leads to terrorist attacks from any faith.
Yes but of course she loves her mosque that much she's willing to die for it.
That is something a child would say.
It's the means by which she is willing to sacrifice herself that comes into question.
I guess you're one of the posters, however, who doesn't apply your same 'rationale' to what does and doesn't represent antisemitism.

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She is saying she would die for Al Aqsa mosque because there is history of extremist settler terrorist attacks on Palestinian mosques, the largest one was the Ibrahimi mosque massacre in 1994 which occurred in Hebron, in the occupied West Bank. Muslim Palestinians in East Jerusalem that have suffered raids of Al Aqsa including being beaten up are literally afraid one day one of the extremists will just do what Goldstein did in Hebron in the Ibrahimi mosque.

Fear of extremist attacks is not extremism. By your logic fear of terrorist attacks is terrorism.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_of_the_Patriarchs_massacre

Cave of the Patriarchs massacre - Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_of_the_Patriarchs_massacre

Scirocco · 04/12/2023 15:32

DownNative · 04/12/2023 10:23

There have been several people on Mumsnet who clearly invriminated themselves in support for Hamas. Some of them were reported by myself and I reminded MN of their legal responsibilities to get them to delete as well as ban such users.

Others are what is called sneaking regarders and there's more of them posting covert support for Hamas.

It does exist here and may not be immediately recognisable to most members here. But I can see them due to long experience in this area.

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I've not seen any clear statements of support. I've seen people say they can understand how people have ended up in this situation, but understanding or having empathy is not the same as supporting.

Anyone who openly expresses support for a proscribed organisation, on a public forum no less, is an idiot.

Trulywonderful · 04/12/2023 15:48

Scirocco · 04/12/2023 15:32

I've not seen any clear statements of support. I've seen people say they can understand how people have ended up in this situation, but understanding or having empathy is not the same as supporting.

Anyone who openly expresses support for a proscribed organisation, on a public forum no less, is an idiot.

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Unfortunately some people's posts just after the pogrom and on threads since got deleted. Some of those people had their user accounts removed but some didn't depending on exactly what they said. However lots of us have seen posts before deletion plus some people had done screenshot of a few examples from what I remember on the antisemitism signs thread I believe

basculin · 04/12/2023 15:53

There was one poster who actually said the words "I support Hamas". Pretty sure that's illegal. The post didn't last long though.

miniegg3 · 04/12/2023 15:55

ohforheavenssakedearcomeonnow · 04/12/2023 13:27

The post where I suggest a few may be supporters and the CTRL F hack?

How would this break talk guidelines?

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No idea.. but the few members discussed further up just love reporting posts that aren't even offensive, they just don't agree with their opinions on palastine. It's hilarious 😂 twisting people's words and then saying they've reported you lol

backtowinter · 04/12/2023 17:40

Well one poster (on another thread) has just likened Hamas to those who took part in the Warsaw ghetto uprising

ChickHenLittle · 04/12/2023 18:14

Tryingmybestadhd · 04/12/2023 14:41

No I don’t believe in eugenics but I do believe in parents being responsible for what they do . Why will anyone have 5 children if you can’t even afford to feed them and do you actually realise the real reason in palestine ?

Go on, tell us the real reason. I can ask my parents for verification.

Trulywonderful · 04/12/2023 20:04

backtowinter · 04/12/2023 17:40

Well one poster (on another thread) has just likened Hamas to those who took part in the Warsaw ghetto uprising

Oh for goodness sake

Is there no end to the twisted shit some people come out with in defence of Hamas

Make me want to hit my head against a wall until I can unsee and hear this fuckwittery, it really does.

Livinginanotherworld · 04/12/2023 20:08

OuiOuiKitty · 04/12/2023 13:07

However, there are 4 or 5 main Pro Palestinian posters extremely active on the conflict boards and they probably keep changing their names so it looks like they have support. Anyway, if you go through their posts - easy to do - just open up a thread in a browser and hit Ctrl and F together and type in their user name, you will see all their posts and see a pattern and zero condemnation for Hamas. They engage in extreme whataboutery about Israel and how they have treated Gazans badly for 75 years and therefore Israel had it coming. They also pop up on threads where obviously Jewish people are discussing concerns about Anti- Semitism.

I mean you could say the same thing about the pro genocide posters. Zero condemnation for the killing of nearly 20000 people, its the opposite, its post after post defending it. Those core pro genocide posters have had multiple posts deleted for racism, it's obvious why they don't care that innocent people are being killed in huge numbers. The anger and disgust those posters show when anyone puts the innocent people killed on 7/10 on the same level as the innocent people killed over the past 2 months is a sight to behold and really shows their true feelings.

Edited

This is a nutshell !

Trulywonderful · 04/12/2023 20:10

miniegg3 · 04/12/2023 15:55

No idea.. but the few members discussed further up just love reporting posts that aren't even offensive, they just don't agree with their opinions on palastine. It's hilarious 😂 twisting people's words and then saying they've reported you lol

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Yes some posters do like to twist what people are posting to try and discredit them or make them look bad. I had someone straight out lie about me today in order to discredit my posts. I mean people can read my posts so it is nuts to lie about me. Some posters just get their knickers in a twist don't agree with every last thing they do it seems. The idea of a conversation or debate is lost on some.

Livinginanotherworld · 04/12/2023 20:18

Depdawg · 04/12/2023 14:53

Of course it's hate speech; it's extremism. Good Lord 🙄

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You are talking out of your backside, that was not hate speech. Al Asqa mosque is one of the most important mosques in the world for Muslim people, she was demonstrating her worship of it.

Livinginanotherworld · 04/12/2023 20:21

Depdawg · 04/12/2023 15:21

Oh do get a grip. She is extremist. It's that extremism that leads to terrorist attacks from any faith.
Yes but of course she loves her mosque that much she's willing to die for it.
That is something a child would say.
It's the means by which she is willing to sacrifice herself that comes into question.
I guess you're one of the posters, however, who doesn't apply your same 'rationale' to what does and doesn't represent antisemitism.

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You obviously have no idea of the Muslim faith do you ?

ChickHenLittle · 04/12/2023 20:33

Just watched that video from David Atherton. The post he made along with it about sums up his level of intelligence, however the man reposts Britain First... An extreme far right group in themselves.

Edit to add: a further look shows he reposts Tommy Robinson and a page called "IslamIsSelfish" too.

ohforheavenssakedearcomeonnow · 04/12/2023 20:37

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Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Trulywonderful · 04/12/2023 20:51

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I am laughing at that too

However it is because Hamas was formed to make sure number three on you list happens. Therefore they would rather walk through the gates of hell (and they will) than again to Israel existing and not trying to dismantled it. The nearest they have ever got to saying they will leave Israel alone is to say they will stop hostilities for a period of time but they will eventually overcome Israel when the time is right. Not the exact wording but something along those lines.

Chaitales · 04/12/2023 20:57

@Trulywonderful@ohforheavenssakedearcomeonnow Would you expect or ask Israel to apologise for the Nakba of 1948?

The foundational events of the Nakba took place during and shortly after the 1948 Palestine war, including 78% of Mandatory Palestine being declared as Israel, the expulsion and flight of 700,000 Palestinians, the related depopulation and destruction of over 500 Palestinian villages by Zionist militias and later the Israeli army[3] and subsequent geographical erasure, the denial of the Palestinian right of return, the creation of permanent Palestinian refugees, and the "shattering of Palestinian society".

Palestinian refugees - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_refugees

swimsong · 04/12/2023 21:17

Tryingmybestadhd · 04/12/2023 14:38

But what do you think it will happen if they stop without taking hams off power? Honest question, don’t you think a few months from now hams will do the same and Israel will do the same and it will be ongoing ? Do you agree hams needs to leave power ?

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Yes I agree (although of course they will be replaced by a similar political organisation). Do you agree that the current extremist Israeli government needs to leave power or there will not be peace? They have been bent on sabotaging a 2-state solution and have been tacitly supporting Settler violence in the West Bank since they took control.

From an article in the New York Review:

"Under the most right-wing government in its history, Israel has carried out large-scale invasions of Palestinian refugee camps and towns in the West Bank, killing and wounding scores of people. Armed Israeli fighters have burst into Palestinian streets and homes on an almost nightly basis, often picking children out of their beds in the middle of the night to be taken into administrative detention—acts of terror that have gone largely unreported in the Western press."

https://archive.ph/yIKW5#selection-1647.340-1647.811

This is a plan put forward (long before October) by influential Israeli Minister of Finance Bezalel Smotrich, advocating for a total destruction of Palestinian hopes for statehood.

https://hashiloach.org.il/israels-decisive-plan/

Bezalel Smotrich is an Israeli far-right politician and lawyer who is leader of the National Religious Party–Religious Zionism. Heis a settler in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, which is deemed illegal under international law. He is a self-declared racist and supporter of expanding Israeli settlements in the West Bank and denies the existence of a Palestinian people.

Israel's Decisive Plan - השילוח

The "two-state" model has led Israel to a dead end. It has brought a sense of despair of ending the conflict, and a turn to "managing" it as a cruel and eternal decree of fate. The alternative to this is a new readiness of Israeli society to win the co...

https://hashiloach.org.il/israels-decisive-plan

Trulywonderful · 04/12/2023 21:21

Chaitales · 04/12/2023 20:57

@Trulywonderful@ohforheavenssakedearcomeonnow Would you expect or ask Israel to apologise for the Nakba of 1948?

The foundational events of the Nakba took place during and shortly after the 1948 Palestine war, including 78% of Mandatory Palestine being declared as Israel, the expulsion and flight of 700,000 Palestinians, the related depopulation and destruction of over 500 Palestinian villages by Zionist militias and later the Israeli army[3] and subsequent geographical erasure, the denial of the Palestinian right of return, the creation of permanent Palestinian refugees, and the "shattering of Palestinian society".

Edited

Some one found a wiki page didn't they

Firstly wiki is a terrible place to get information from and the numbers there are not correct.

Population of pre-Mandate Palestine was 800k about 80k of whom were Jewish, the rest a mix of Turks, Bedouins, Muslim & Christian Arabs, & European ex-pats.

Over 500k of that initial 800k were Arabs who arrived between 1932 & 1944 attracted by the Yishuv's burgeoning finances.

Secondly yes I expect the Israeli politicians to apologise for any wrong doing towards in the states history. That includes the settlements in the west bank. Why wouldn't I? About 70k Jews and their families that Jordan kicked out of their homes in 1948 when they occupied the west back returned in the 60s. These Jews and their families are mostly indigenous to the west bank. Therefore not the same as the vile settlers. So I think people need to be careful not to lump them in the same boat. However other these people and their families the west bank really needs to be left to the Arabs.

Thirdly I think the surrounding countries also need to take some of the responsibility for getting a lot of indigenous Arabs to leave there homes. They told them it was a short term thing but it totally screwed up things even more.

Fourly sorry for the long answer but what do you think you are getting at here? Are you implying something about me without reading my posts at all?

Trulywonderful · 04/12/2023 21:26

Anyway back to the thread topic

Well someone refers to 7th October as resistance. So he obviously supports Hamas

Are we surprised? I think not

https://twitter.com/corbyn_project/status/1731623117804413093

Chaitales · 04/12/2023 21:33

Trulywonderful · 04/12/2023 21:21

Some one found a wiki page didn't they

Firstly wiki is a terrible place to get information from and the numbers there are not correct.

Population of pre-Mandate Palestine was 800k about 80k of whom were Jewish, the rest a mix of Turks, Bedouins, Muslim & Christian Arabs, & European ex-pats.

Over 500k of that initial 800k were Arabs who arrived between 1932 & 1944 attracted by the Yishuv's burgeoning finances.

Secondly yes I expect the Israeli politicians to apologise for any wrong doing towards in the states history. That includes the settlements in the west bank. Why wouldn't I? About 70k Jews and their families that Jordan kicked out of their homes in 1948 when they occupied the west back returned in the 60s. These Jews and their families are mostly indigenous to the west bank. Therefore not the same as the vile settlers. So I think people need to be careful not to lump them in the same boat. However other these people and their families the west bank really needs to be left to the Arabs.

Thirdly I think the surrounding countries also need to take some of the responsibility for getting a lot of indigenous Arabs to leave there homes. They told them it was a short term thing but it totally screwed up things even more.

Fourly sorry for the long answer but what do you think you are getting at here? Are you implying something about me without reading my posts at all?

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Some one found a wiki page didn't they

Sure - same info many other places on the internet, or in books (ilan Pappe, Rashid Khalidi). Deflection as typical - I reposted a story from a page about how Israels number 1 song right now is about killing the Amalek Palestinians and flattening them, and someone objected because they didnt agree with the person running the page, not the actual story about the song, despite subsequent posters linking it to Times of Israel and other papers.

Are you implying something about me without reading my posts at all?

Did I say anything about you? You posted above agreeing that Hamas should apologise, and I responded by asking if you think Israel should apologise for the Nakba. Simple question, you answered it.

Trulywonderful · 04/12/2023 21:43

Chaitales · 04/12/2023 21:33

Some one found a wiki page didn't they

Sure - same info many other places on the internet, or in books (ilan Pappe, Rashid Khalidi). Deflection as typical - I reposted a story from a page about how Israels number 1 song right now is about killing the Amalek Palestinians and flattening them, and someone objected because they didnt agree with the person running the page, not the actual story about the song, despite subsequent posters linking it to Times of Israel and other papers.

Are you implying something about me without reading my posts at all?

Did I say anything about you? You posted above agreeing that Hamas should apologise, and I responded by asking if you think Israel should apologise for the Nakba. Simple question, you answered it.

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My objection to wiki as a single source is the same whether it be about Israel or any other subject. Basically you can use it as a rough quick guide bit not much else and even then be careful because it is often wrong

I work in a secondary school and we tell are students to never use Wikipedia as a source of information. To always use multiple sources from various different types of outlets. I think during this conflict or any debate about Israel and Gaza it is particularly important

Sorry if my you wiki comment was sarcastic. I just don't rate wiki, so nothing personal.