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Conflict in the Middle East
Original poster

Israelis held hostage (part 2)

961 replies

StarbucksSmarterSister · 25/11/2023 18:50

Continuing

OP posts:
Thread gallery
71
Stomacharmeleon · 02/12/2023 17:59

@Kaffeebitte that's how I feel. But the common denominator is Hamas which refocuses me.
They don't want peace or a two state solution. They don't want Gaza to survive or move on. They want all Jews dead and will use every available angle to get what they want.
And for all the Complaints on here and emotive diatribes I think most governments get it. Because to let Hamas win and succeed is the failure of mankind. War is horrible and unpalatable and we are fighting with a different rule book but it has to be done.
We all know the brutality of Hamas. They do have to be stopped

Kaffeebitte · 02/12/2023 18:08

@Stomacharmeleon i agree but I don’t think that the Israeli Govt will achieve it by their current actions. Not a chance. And nothing, nothing, excuses the mass slaughter of thousands of innocent civilians .

Stomacharmeleon · 02/12/2023 18:37

@Kaffeebitte i don't know what the answer is.
I am not making excuses. I just don't know.

Parkingt111 · 02/12/2023 18:42

@Kaffeebitte I agree with you. I think from statements we have seen since the war most governments are alarmed or at the least extremely concerned by the way Israel has carried out this war. Not the war itself but the way it has been conducted
I also don't think it will achieve the goals they want to

@CatLoaf why do you think he is minimising? Is it lack of knowledge?

Although it seems talks had stopped today and mossad were called backed to Israel today, I did see that Macron was going to travel to Qatar

Has anyone seen further updates on any of the hostages? Apart from what @efacsen posted this morning I haven't come across anything else

SomeCatFromJapan · 02/12/2023 18:46

I've said this before but I think Israel are in an impossible situation. How do you fight Hamas when they are so embedded in, and to whatever extend supported by a civilian population, and one in a densely populated area? You can't, without killing civilians, probably many civilians.
But how can you not, if by not doing so it is your civilians that will then be killed?

I don't pretend to have an answer, beyond putting the onus on Iran to stop financially supporting Hamas, and Qatar to stop hosting their leaders.

EllaDisenchanted · 02/12/2023 18:51

@Parkingt111 seen nothing beyond same list as @efacsen

Parkingt111 · 02/12/2023 19:06

@SomeCatFromJapan don't want to derail this thread so maybe we can discuss or should I say debate it further another time on a different thread 😊

@EllaDisenchanted thank you

Ixxy1980 · 02/12/2023 19:42

SomeCatFromJapan · 02/12/2023 18:46

I've said this before but I think Israel are in an impossible situation. How do you fight Hamas when they are so embedded in, and to whatever extend supported by a civilian population, and one in a densely populated area? You can't, without killing civilians, probably many civilians.
But how can you not, if by not doing so it is your civilians that will then be killed?

I don't pretend to have an answer, beyond putting the onus on Iran to stop financially supporting Hamas, and Qatar to stop hosting their leaders.

You might find this article an interesting read; it’s rather lengthy but it’s essentially talking about how Israel has a right to respond, but that it cannot itself ignore the laws and moral codes governing warfare during its response, and it has suggestions from a wide range of experts (including Israeli and Palestinian) about how they think Israel should have responded instead.

It was written on 20th October so unfortunately much of what was warned about in the article has come about, but I feel like it’s still not too late for them to switch tactics. I cannot fathom how Israel can effectively say they have destroyed Hamas unless they kill the entire population of Gaza, which is unthinkable and horrifying to even consider!

https://www.vox.com/2023/10/20/23919946/israel-hamas-war-gaza-palestine-ground-invasion-strategy

What Israel should do now

Israel’s current approach is clearly wrong. Here’s a better way to fight Hamas — and win.

https://www.vox.com/2023/10/20/23919946/israel-hamas-war-gaza-palestine-ground-invasion-strategy

stomachameleon · 02/12/2023 19:50

@Ixxy1980 interesting article.
I would like Mossad to go after the 'big three'
For the sake of peace Qatar to turn over or expel those who live there and are funding Hamas.

And go about it that way.

Parkingt111 · 02/12/2023 20:04

@Stomacharmeleon do you know if this is verified? I read somewhere that Yahya Sinwar came to meet some of the hostages and that one of them even confronted him

All this time everyone was saying he's hiding in Qatar

Parkingt111 · 02/12/2023 20:07

Regarding hostages the UK is going to send a surveillance craft to try and gather intelligence on the possible whereabouts of the hostages.

stomachameleon · 02/12/2023 20:22

@Parkingt111 there should have been a gap between them. They are two different things....
I imagine he still is in Gaza. He doesn't strike me as someone who would be in Qatar. When asked if he was married he answered ' Hamas is my wife'
I think he is very much in Gaza.

XRAYTHIS · 02/12/2023 20:50

stomachameleon · 02/12/2023 19:50

@Ixxy1980 interesting article.
I would like Mossad to go after the 'big three'
For the sake of peace Qatar to turn over or expel those who live there and are funding Hamas.

And go about it that way.

Totally this. Hamas cannot win
Yes

Original poster
StarbucksSmarterSister · 02/12/2023 21:16

I've just had a huge argument with DH about the conflict, and feel horrible. I could hear him minimising the suffering of those attacked and October 7th, and I can't bear it.

I'm so sorry. I can understand people being pro Palestine but the minimization,or in some cases denial, of what happened on the 7th just makes me want to puke. Has he seen any of the footage? There are links on Twitter, perhaps if he did, he might stop minimising.

OP posts:
Trulywonderful · 02/12/2023 21:53

I am not on twitter but for those of you who are, I just got sent this:

Jackie Walker is a Corbyn fanatic apparently. This socialist who claims to want a nice world is mocking a kidnapped child whose hair became infested with lice

Israelis held hostage (part 2)
Xenia · 02/12/2023 22:08

There are lots of things Israel can do with our helpt to rid the world of Hamas (and ISIS and Al Qaeda and other similar groups). For a start having a massive buffer zone between Israel and its enemies might help so Hamas could never again kill 1200 people as it did in Israel. Many arabs live in peace in Israel. 10 members of the parliament are arab for a start.

Trulywonderful · 02/12/2023 22:13

Xenia · 02/12/2023 22:08

There are lots of things Israel can do with our helpt to rid the world of Hamas (and ISIS and Al Qaeda and other similar groups). For a start having a massive buffer zone between Israel and its enemies might help so Hamas could never again kill 1200 people as it did in Israel. Many arabs live in peace in Israel. 10 members of the parliament are arab for a start.

They said a few weeks ago that they plan to widen the current buffer zone. I remember a debate on one of the threads about exactly whose land should be used to widen it.

whereaw · 02/12/2023 22:17

How about everyone rises up against Islamic Militants and Extremists? Because that is the problem, world over.

Trulywonderful · 02/12/2023 22:25

whereaw · 02/12/2023 22:17

How about everyone rises up against Islamic Militants and Extremists? Because that is the problem, world over.

Absolutely

I have Nigerian and Somali neighbours and Islamic exstemists are why they now live in the UK. They literally had to flee their own country.

Original poster
StarbucksSmarterSister · 03/12/2023 01:36

Trulywonderful · 02/12/2023 21:53

I am not on twitter but for those of you who are, I just got sent this:

Jackie Walker is a Corbyn fanatic apparently. This socialist who claims to want a nice world is mocking a kidnapped child whose hair became infested with lice

I saw it She is awful anyway but that is absolutely vile .

OP posts:
Original poster
StarbucksSmarterSister · 03/12/2023 03:14

One of the worst things I've seen on there actually is the mocking of the hostages, from a lot of people.

They really are outing themselves.

OP posts:
Efacsen · 03/12/2023 12:11

It's a really useful thing - don't understand why it wasn't happening sooner its over 8 weeks now and UK forces have been in the vicinity for a while now

whereaw · 03/12/2023 12:11

I saw that about the RAF @ohforheavenssakedearcomeonnow Gives me hope.
Does anyone know if there has been confirmation about baby Kfir and Ariel?

I am so sad for the whole situation and deaths of all innocent people, but the root cause is Hamas (and the like) and Hamas-supporters/ apologists who are letting this extreme view become acceptable/ understandable when it is entirely incompatible with modern values of freedom and needs to be stamped out.