Please do all you can to object to the genocide of Palestinians

[Finallyloggedin]

It’s just heartbreaking. I’ve seen videos on twitter that are beyond anything I can even begin to describe. Palestinians are being murdered in their thousands and the western media is largely pretending it’s not happening.

The average age of the people who have been killed in Gaza is FIVE years old.

The UK media are not showing how the Israeli government is openly talking about, and cheerleading genocide now. Israeli government speaks about Palestinians as if they are not humans. They are saying women are targets as they can have babies. I’ve just read how, since October 7th they have taken over 5,000 Palestinians from the West Bank and tortured them. They were already routinely arresting Palestinians and taking them away from their family with no reason and no but this is not being adequately reported.

Please, please visit sites such as 972 magazine and declassified uk. The BBC, etc, unfortunately aren’t reporting the extent to what is going on.

https://www.declassifieduk.org/israel-and-its-allies-are-repurposing-the-goals-and-lies-of-1948-in-gaza-in-2023/

1200 people, 900 civilians. They have a better civillian to non civillian ratio than Israel do despite Israels military superiority. Makes you wonder who really has the 'insidious intent'.

@Decisiontimenow I agree with that hence why I disagree that Israel is committing it. We will see in time i imagine.

@OuiOuiKitty sorry I thought I had made it clear in my post : Hamas

@Delphinium20 still no rationale as to how you formed your opinion on the genocide issue in any of those posts.

But I didn't...I came to the thread to discuss this issue, not to demand we elevate it above all others.

Then you didn't read all my posts.

Because of the unique nature of this conflict that is hundreds of years old and despite peace process after peace process of large international bodies, there is STILL no peace in the Middle East.

I can't march (health issues). What else can I do? Looking for practical ideas.

MP is a useless (Tory) twit who always follows his leader. Waste of space and frankly a racist so not looking to him to do anything useful.

I am not for one side, I am just for peace.

I wish all hostages were free, and the bombing is stopped.

I feel I want to do SOMETHING, feel so helpless seeing the footage of the atrocities.

How can we get the people who have any leverage with Israel/Hamas to listen?

I did.

For someone so sure that this is not genocide you offer little in the way of a coherent argument as to why.

Also, what is the aim of Hamas ultimately in this (real politik not just the idea of freedom), surely they knew they would unleash hell on Palestine when they did what they did?

Interestingly BBC journalist early on was amazed that the attack on the kibbutz had happened as Israel has top notch internal and external intelligence operatives. The journalist didn't say did Israel allow this, but it was the unspoken implication, as I read it.

Would they? Do they have form for this? I mean the government, not lumping all the citizens together as they as diverse as any population and not in control of their security services/decision makers any more than I am in touch with MI6 or Rishi.

There was a gruesome slave rebellion which was considered the turning point for slavery in the American south, led by Nat Turner. Apparently there has never been a rebellion of such scale and as gruesome as this ever before. They killed any whites including children. Nat was an educated slave and history now recalls him differently. When historians wrote about him afterwards they said he believed that ‘only a cataclysmic act could convince the architects of a violent social order that violence begets violence’.

Can you not see that other people living in places where children are dying at higher rates see this massive media about Israel/Palestine w/ demands for citizens from around the world to take a stand - as frustrating because no one is talking about their issues with the same amount of pressures? And as to calling out to citizens from the US, France, the UK, Germany, they know that our demands to our politicians carry more weight because we have both elected officials and a massive military that is invested in the middle east.

That's my point in the above, not that we shouldn't talk about the ME, but the demands to elevate it and call it genocide and classify as the worst of the worst of all times...that's what I'm trying to showcase here. That the Palestinians and Israel have loud voices that get heard while many other atrocities with higher body counts get shorter shrift.

I would argue that the majority of people on this thread, including myself, plus all our collective friends on social, and ALL the western college students know far less about issues like what happened to the Rohingya and haven't made the same kinds of posts and demands for side taking on that.

It wasn't so much a turning point where people no longer thought there should be slaves, in fact the south really cracked down on security and policing after Turner, becoming far more brutal than before. The change of hearts and minds was due more to abolitionists' and free slaves' work, Frederick Douglass, Harriet Beecher Stowe, John Brown.

Hear hear.

To be silent is to be complicit.

I do understand the point you are making but I think the scale of child deaths in the current conflict exceeds anything we have seen in recent history.

If guns in the US killed children at the same rate as Israeli bombing in Gaza then the number of children killed each month in the US would be over 800,000, or nearly 10 million per year.

As you say the current rate of nearly 5000 is appalling and my point is simply to highlight the horrific scale of children's deaths in Gaza.

*Calculation based on US population of 340 million, Gaza population of 2.3 million and 5500 child casualties.

I absolutely agree with you on the scale and rapidity. It's why war is so ugly - the amount of children and innocents who die is often at such horrific rates - often higher rates than the soldiers (Russia's famine and disease during and after WW2 is a sad example of the high rate of civilian deaths vs. soldiers IIRC, but don't quote me as I'm too tired to look it up). Hamas puts children purposely in harm's way and Israel is bombing the hell out of Hamas anyway...it's a hot mess, but I hope this hostage deal will be the start to the end, but I'm not holding my breath.

This is interesting in terms of censoring. A harvard school is receiving criticism after a pre approved article on how Israel is committing a genocide was not allowed to be published because they were scared of the backlash.

Should backlash on a legitimate viewpoint be a reason for censorship?

We are seeing more and more people who are experts in this field coming forward to say that this is a genocide or there is a genuine concern it could lead to one

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2023/nov/22/harvard-law-pro-palestinian-letter-gaza-israel-censorship

The decision was criticised in a statement issued by 25 editors, who said such a rejection was unprecedented and motivated by fear.

Hamas puts children purposely in harm's way

Do you have evidence of this please?

Given how densely populated Gaza is its no surprise that where ever Hamas happen to be there are civilians there as well. This is why the human shields argument has always irritated me a bit.
The Uk bombed Germany during WW2 but they didn’t accuse the Nazis of using humans shields when civilians were killed by them bombing a city. Bit difficult not to kill people if you bomb a city.

ceasefire now

@Chaitales you are being obtuse there is loads of evidence
You only have to google for images of rocket launchers on schools, in mosques, beside residential buildings. Of course that puts them in the direct firing line.
Even UNWRA published an article condemning the placement of rockets in its schools (although I admit its not recent)
By sheer defining if Hamas continue to engage/ fire rockets they are doing it as Gaza is so densely populated.

Stomacharmeleon · Yesterday 11:10
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@MrsSkylerWhite I know. Tell that to the children in kibbutz Nir-Oz”

I don’t distinguish. The murder of Jewish children was unforgivable. The murder of Palestinian children is unforgivable.

Your horrible comment suggested that the children of Gaza somehow deserve what’s happening to them.

'Little children had no part in any of this' was what I was commenting on and agreeing.

Where in my sentence does it say I think the children of Gaza deserve it? Or even imply it?

I apologise Stomacharmeleon, I was replying to another poster and got mixed up, sorry. This was the comment I was replying to:

I imagine the people of Gaza are now feeling the same terror Israeli families felt when they were being attacked in their homes, and it could have been avoided if they hadn't voted a terrorist organisation into power.