Please do all you can to object to the genocide of Palestinians

[Finallyloggedin]

It’s just heartbreaking. I’ve seen videos on twitter that are beyond anything I can even begin to describe. Palestinians are being murdered in their thousands and the western media is largely pretending it’s not happening.

The average age of the people who have been killed in Gaza is FIVE years old.

The UK media are not showing how the Israeli government is openly talking about, and cheerleading genocide now. Israeli government speaks about Palestinians as if they are not humans. They are saying women are targets as they can have babies. I’ve just read how, since October 7th they have taken over 5,000 Palestinians from the West Bank and tortured them. They were already routinely arresting Palestinians and taking them away from their family with no reason and no but this is not being adequately reported.

Please, please visit sites such as 972 magazine and declassified uk. The BBC, etc, unfortunately aren’t reporting the extent to what is going on.

https://www.declassifieduk.org/israel-and-its-allies-are-repurposing-the-goals-and-lies-of-1948-in-gaza-in-2023/

@Reallifelurker I am sorry I just read that. It's much more up to date and promising.

@Stomacharmeleon always good to actually know what you’re talking about before claiming what another person said is untrue

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/09/netanyahu-rejected-ceasefire-for-hostages-deal-in-gaza-sources-say

The prisoner/ hostage precedent was set years ago when one IDF soldier was exchanged for hundreds of Palestinians kept imprisoned.

This.

Drives me nuts when I see "genocide".

Why are only 50 hostages being released?

Hamas could end this by releasing all Israeli hostages and handing over their leaders

@Decisiontimenow he has always said he wanted all of the Hostages released at once so know one is left behind.
Therefore not on table.
Hamas have said a lot of things and they turn out not to be true. Qatar said recently they have not got beyond the opening stages of negotiations until recently.
Just because something has happened once doesn't mean you would be keen to repeat the experience over and over again. There are still IDF bodies in Gaza which Hamas have not released from years ago.

@Decisiontimenow
"The prisoner/ hostage precedent was set years ago when one IDF soldier was exchanged for hundreds of Palestinians kept imprisoned."

Gilad Shalit was exchanged for over 1000 prisoners and terrorists. Not the best precedent to have set 🤦🏻‍♀️

Including the architect of Hamas Yahya sinwar... look how that turned out.

Qatar said recently they have not got beyond the opening stages of negotiations until recently

Do you have a source for this please @Stomacharmeleon ?

Seems highly unlikely that Qatar would have said this - they have been exceptionally closed-lips about the progress of the talks like any good negotiator would be. And were in fact complaining about leaks/rumours imperilling the negotiations

.

BBC also reported early this morning that they had information from 3 sources that an almost identical deal was on the table prior to the ground invasion

@Delphinium20 why did you not engage with my reply outlining the reasons why this is being considered genocide by some?

You keep arguing about the term and bizarrely compare WW2 outcomes with this six week regional war almost a century later... the two are not remotely comparable.

Can you not use Google to find articles and educate yourself on what genocide entails, and why the specific term might be applied in this case, rather than challenge other posters and then totally ignore their explanations. You deny it’s application in this case with no rationale except you’ve somehow decided it is motivated by antisemitism. That’s really base.
Genocide was a term coined post Holocaust by a Jewish lawyer but it has - to the great shame of humanity- also arisen in horrifying occasions since then.
As it happens I do think it’s important to speak clearly and not emotively, for both clarity’s sake but also for discussion to be in good faith. And with that, I still think we need to heed the calls of experts on the matter who are warning us that is a risk here.

Well the law of armed conflict came into being in the couple of years after the Second World War exactly because of what those boys and the Nazis and other countries did during that conflict. So I don't wouldn't hold them up as an example if I were you. We have higher standards by now surely.

That’s crazy, so many lives including those of the hostages could have been spared pain and death.

What changed their mind ?

Humdingerydoo · Today 20:33

@Decisiontimenow
"The prisoner/ hostage precedent was set years ago when one IDF soldier was exchanged for hundreds of Palestinians kept imprisoned."

Gilad Shalit was exchanged for over 1000 prisoners and terrorists. Not the best precedent to have set 🤦🏻‍♀️

Agreed! Wasn’t my deal, just stating the precedent is there.

@EasterIssland do you have a source for that as I can't find it on bbc?
I will find the other for you.

The point I was trying to make was that Netanyahu has until very recently not wanted to make deals on 'some' and tbh I get that. We now have a situation where (if the list is correct) mothers have been left behind, children are going to be returned without their only surviving parent. I am pleased Bibi has listened to the families but it comes at a cost. We will see if it is worth the risk.

Public opinion both domestic and abroad - particularly in the US, is my understanding

Go and tell this to Norman Finkelstein ( A Jew whose all his family were victims of the holocaust, except his parents and is an expert who spent 40 years studying the Israeli/ Palestine conflict ) .
This is his take on the present situation:

"There are three components of Israel’s genocidal campaign in Gaza. The first, which shouldn’t be underestimated in my opinion, is pure vengeful bloodlust. This bloodlust is driven also by sheer bewilderment and shock that the people of Gaza were able to so totally humiliate Israel’s military and intelligence.

Israel’s second objective in Gaza is to restore its “deterrence capacity”, i.e., the Arab world’s fear of it. Israel did suffer a major and humiliating blow on October 7. This could have conveyed to the Arab world that Israel is not so daunting a foe as once thought. And because Israel is unable to wage a ground war, the way it restores its deterrence capacity is to wreak as much death and devastation as it can from the air.

The third component is Israel’s attempt to seize the opportunity to impose a final solution to the Gaza question. This has plagued Israel since at least 1992, when then-Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin expressed his desire that Gaza “sink into the sea”. It seems pretty clear now that Israeli planners initially hoped to expel Gaza’s population into the Sinai. But that possibility was squashed by the president of Egypt. At present, I think there’s still a lot of uncertainty among Israeli ruling elites as to what exactly they want to do with Gaza long-term."

He is the leading expert in this field. When he says it is a genocide, I tend to believe him.

@WatTyler if it looks like genocide, bombs like genocide, kills and murders like genocide then it IS a genocide. Just look at the people of Gaza reporting what is really happening on ground not the mainstream media BS.

@Stomacharmeleon

Hi sorry I can’t see the logic between your two posts below?
I answered your first point with the article proving the deal was “on the table”- the deal that currently stands was being negotiated (what “on the table” means) weeks ago. Obviously it’s not just what Netanyahu wanted, that’s why it’s a negotiation?
Secondly I referred to the precedent that was already set. It’s a different argument to make to say that doesn’t mean they want to experience the same thing over and over?

Your posts:
it hasn't been 'on the table' for five weeks at all. That's untrue.
Parties opposed it as it sets a precedent that taking people hostage works. Israel wants to avoid it happening again and for all hostages to be released not a few.

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he has always said he wanted all of the Hostages released at once so know one is left behind.
Therefore not on table.
Hamas have said a lot of things and they turn out not to be true. Qatar said recently they have not got beyond the opening stages of negotiations until recently.
Just because something has happened once doesn't mean you would be keen to repeat the experience over and over again. There are still IDF bodies in Gaza which Hamas have not released from years ago.

Please remember that this is the way Palestinian children are treated by Israeli authorities. Please remember they too are being held hostage. It's very sad for any child to be held hostage and I feel for them all. I hope all the children are innocent people are released in this deal.

The anti semitic card pulled again, I see. What is obscene is what Hamas did and what the IDF is doing now. We are talking about human beings, not ideology.

Looks like a genocide to me. It’s disgusting.

That's very sad. The way they treat Palestinian children and adults is disgusting. They have endured so much, and now this. No group should have to suffer as much as they have.

It's so much worse because it is all documented and in front of our eyes. How many reports and Investigations need to be done only for "recommendations" to be made. The situation can only get worse if the Palestinian people continue to be oppressed. The occupation needs to end for peace on both sides.

With regard to the accusations of genocide this article was interesting.

https://time.com/6334409/is-whats-happening-gaza-genocide-experts/.

A baby voted for Hamas? Your post is utterly disgusting.

Agree. It's being live streamed in front of our eyes yet we are still debating whether lives have been lost, or faked, or semantics over ethnic cleansing and genocide. Meanwhile, a whole generation of children is being either killed or maimed and displaced and traumatised for life, while we watch from our screens, unable to do anything, and largely silenced from mainstream world(school, workplace, media) if we do speak. It's like watching the world's worst horror movie but knowing it's real