Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Conflict in the Middle East

Documenting Israeli army racism and torture

995 replies

Desertrose2023 · 15/11/2023 04:25

this thread is to document the racist, criminal and dehumanizing behaviour by the most “moral army in the world” both during its most recent bombardment of Gaza and across decades of military occupation in the West Bank.

to start, here is a video of Israeli soldiers chanting they will turn Gazans into Kebabs.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Czjm8bYu-_X/?igshid=MXB0Yzl2NDFpcWx5aQ==

Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Czjm8bYu-_X/?igshid=MXB0Yzl2NDFpcWx5aQ==

OP posts:
Thread gallery
93
Thereissomelight · 29/11/2023 12:27

@stormy4319trevor
I agree. The letter was probably written under duress or at least trying to keep the captors sweet.

treeees · 29/11/2023 12:30

https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestine/comments/1867rzq/they_beaten_us_and_broke_both_my_arms_palestinian/

They beat us and broke both my arms - Palestinian children tortured in Israeli jail.

stormy4319trevor · 29/11/2023 12:31

@Thereissomelight I don't know. I care very much about the civilians of Gaza, and the plight of Palestinians generally. But I don't think it's helpful to them to wonder if Hamas might be nice guys actually.

whatswrongwiththeworldddd · 29/11/2023 12:43

Just doing some research into how Muslims treat prisoners of war. In this case Hamas treating hostages. I thought it might be insightful and interesting to understand their point of view. This is what I found:

War in Islam should not be waged for the sole purpose of shedding blood or seeking vengeance. If the Muslims capture them and take them to a place that has been prepared for them, they should not harm them or torture them with beatings, depriving them of food and water, leaving them out in the sun or the cold, burning them with fire, or putting covers over their mouths, ears and eyes and putting them in cages like animals. Rather they should treat them with kindness and mercy.

Islam instructs Muslims either to free captives who cannot offer ransom (in the form of money or an equivalent number of Muslim captives) or to ransom prisoners of war. Prisoners of war are not to be humiliated or degraded in any way. They have the right to their human dignity and the right to be protected from sexual, emotional, and physical abuse. Sufficient health care should be provided for prisoners who need it. Proper food and clothing should also be provided, as well as sanitary facilities. The Prophet also instructed his Companions to shelter their prisoners from the summer sun and to provide them with water to drink. Captives are invited to learn about Islam, but they are under no pressure whatsoever to convert. [There is no compulsion in religion] (Al-Baqarah 2:256) means that sincerity is an essential requirement of one’s faith, therefore, no one can be coerced to become a Muslim nor should anyone convert to seek some worldly benefit. The Qur’an describes the righteous: [And they, though they hold it dear, give sustenance to the indigent, the orphan and the captive. (Saying) we feed you for the sake of God alone: no reward do we desire from you, nor thanks.] (Al-Insan 76:8-9) Relating how the Companions complied strictly with the Prophet’s instructions on treating POWs, one of the prisoners of the Battle of Badr, Huzayr ibn Humayr, said: “I was with one of the Ansari families, after being taken as captive. Whenever they had lunch or dinner, they used to give me preference by providing me with bread while they’d eat only dates, in compliance with the Prophet’s order to treat prisoners well.” Another, Thamama ibn Athal, was taken prisoner and brought to the Prophet, who said, “Be good to him in his captivity.” When the Prophet went home, he asked that any food in his house be collected and sent to Thamama. Each human being has inherent value and distinction as God’s creation. Later, the Prophet approached him respectfully and inquired whether Thamama could ransom himself: “What have you, Thamama?” He replied, “Actually I have a lot going for me. If you kill me, you kill a man whose blood will surely be avenged. If you are generous, then you are generous to a man who knows how to be grateful. If you are after money, then ask of me whatever amount you like.” The Prophet left him and on the second day when he approached him, Thamama said basically the same thing. On the third day, the Prophet said, “Let Thamama go.” They unbound him and let him go. He went on his way, quickly took a bath and returned, declaring, “I bear witness that there is no God but Allah and I bear witness that you are the Messenger of Allah. O Muhammad! I swear by Allah that there was no man on the face of the Earth whom I hated more than you. Now you have become to me the dearest of men. And I swear by Allah that there was no religion on earth more loathsome to me than your religion, but now it is the most beloved to me of all religions. There was no country on earth more despised by me than your country, yet now I love it more than any other country in the world.” The Islamic ethics of treating prisoners of war is part of the whole system of Islamic ethics, which places utmost importance on the preservation of human dignity and rights. This principle extends from the rights of the unborn child to the rights of women, the elderly, non-Muslims living in a Muslim country, to aggressive enemies captured as prisoners of war. Each human being has inherent value and distinction as God’s creation.

Read More on islamonline :
https://islamonline.net/en/treat-them-kindly-prisoners-of-war/

whatswrongwiththeworldddd · 29/11/2023 12:44

I'm not sure why Mumsnet isn't allowing my editing on here. The paragraphs were meant to be in italics.

whatswrongwiththeworldddd · 29/11/2023 12:51

www.instagram.com/reel/Czx-8EPr5GM/?igshid=N2ViNmM2MDRjNw==

Fairtobefairohhhhhc · 29/11/2023 13:05

To be Honest I'm verging on not being skeptical of the letter. She has no reason to write the letter really. Other than she wanted too.

I don't think hamas need people to think they are nice. That's not their goal.

etmoiandme · 29/11/2023 13:54

Fairtobefairohhhhhc · 29/11/2023 13:05

To be Honest I'm verging on not being skeptical of the letter. She has no reason to write the letter really. Other than she wanted too.

I don't think hamas need people to think they are nice. That's not their goal.

They do, and if you were even remotely aware of their wider goal here you would see that. You're literally buying into and spreading their good-guy propaganda for them. Hamas are as much a danger to Gazan civilians as Israel currently is. Absolutely begging you to engage some critical thinking.

@stormy4319trevor

I don't know. I care very much about the civilians of Gaza, and the plight of Palestinians generally. But I don't think it's helpful to them to wonder if Hamas might be nice guys actually.

100%.

whatswrongwiththeworldddd · 29/11/2023 14:01

@noblegiraffe Cannot believe that anyone would be stupid enough to fall for it, tbh.

I cannot believe that anyone would be stupid enough to buy into the Israeli propaganda. But there are.

Even if the letter is propaganda, there are hostages that have been interviewed and said they were treated well.

noblegiraffe · 29/11/2023 14:05

I cannot believe that anyone would be stupid enough to buy into the Israeli propaganda. But there are.

Fair point, people fall for propaganda from both sides. But I hope it would be generally agreed that that letter is a particularly obvious example.

Desertrose2023 · 29/11/2023 14:07

I personally think the question of whether the letter is genuine or not is a red herring.

even if it’s fake it’s pretty clear from the images that the overall physical state of the hostages released by Hamas has been ok (appreciate they may have mental scars). It’s a very marked contrast from the state of the “detainees” released by the IDF, some of whom have had very visible injuries and described torture and ill treatment at the hands of the Israeli army whilst in their custody.

OP posts:
Desertrose2023 · 29/11/2023 14:18

9 year old boy just shot and killed by Israeli army sniper in West bank city of Jenin. His name was Adam Al Ghoul.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0O6EjeIY0U/?igshid=ZDE1MWVjZGVmZQ==

Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0O6EjeIY0U/?igshid=ZDE1MWVjZGVmZQ==

OP posts:
Desertrose2023 · 29/11/2023 14:20

Seems there were two kids killed.

Documenting Israeli army racism and torture
OP posts:
Fairtobefairohhhhhc · 29/11/2023 14:20

Ok, fair enough. I hadn't seen the denouncement. I can admit when wrong. But to be fair most israeli content is propaganda too and most people are fooled by this also

whatswrongwiththeworldddd · 29/11/2023 14:20

But also, if Hamas did write it, they speak Arabic and write in Arabic. The letter is written in Hebrew.

treeees · 29/11/2023 14:21

Those beautiful young boys, killed for nothing. 💔

Desertrose2023 · 29/11/2023 14:27

Fairtobefairohhhhhc · 29/11/2023 14:20

Ok, fair enough. I hadn't seen the denouncement. I can admit when wrong. But to be fair most israeli content is propaganda too and most people are fooled by this also

I just read the NY post article linked and the denouncement has actually come from a random “cousin”, not the hostage herself. That doesn’t mean the letter isn’t fake or propaganda (the cousin could be telling the truth) but i also imagine that if the letter is actually true then the family would probably be under intense pressure right now from the Israeli government to renounce/ retract it. I don’t think we’ll know for sure unless she’s allowed to be freely interviewed.

OP posts:
feralunderclass · 29/11/2023 14:52

Don't know about letter, but one thing really struck me was how well the hostages looked, even the dog. A far cry from the daily torture and rape that they'd be facing, according to some posters.

Thereissomelight · 29/11/2023 14:53

It could be true. I believe that many of the Israelis living in that part of Israel were peaceful types who had Palestinian friends. Their emotions must be very mixed right now.
Lots of very different types of people in Israel, all backgrounds, cultures and beliefs, probably more so than many countries of a similar population.

OuiOuiKitty · 29/11/2023 15:27

feralunderclass · 29/11/2023 14:52

Don't know about letter, but one thing really struck me was how well the hostages looked, even the dog. A far cry from the daily torture and rape that they'd be facing, according to some posters.

Honestly, the graphic scenarios that some people had made up in their heads about what was happening to the hostages were pretty grim. I read them at the time and thought wtf is wrong with you that you spend your time making this shit up in your head. The reality of what is happening there is bad enough without people making up things and posting it across the internet to try and score points.

feralunderclass · 29/11/2023 15:29

Fairtobefairohhhhhc · 29/11/2023 14:20

Ok, fair enough. I hadn't seen the denouncement. I can admit when wrong. But to be fair most israeli content is propaganda too and most people are fooled by this also

To be correct it hasn't been denounced by the woman who wrote it, it's her cousin or nephew. Even he didn't deny that she had written it.
Yesterday the daughter of an elderly hostage was speaking on R4. She was very happy obviously to get her mum back, said her mum was very positive and back to her laughing self and that there didn't appear to be any trauma as of yet. She also said hostages kept their spirits high by telling stories. The presenter then asked how the hostages were treated by Hamas and her tone immediately changed and she said "I'm not allowed to speak about this". The presenter asked if they had been forbidden by the Israeli government, and she just said again she couldn't say anything. If Hamas did treat them well there is no way that will be allowed to be spoken about.

treeees · 29/11/2023 15:40

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Plusplus · 29/11/2023 16:55

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.