‘From the river to the sea’: What does the Palestinian slogan really mean?

[Ohlalalalala]

"In an extended interview with UnHerd this week, Israeli Ambassador to the UK Tzipi Hotovely was confronted with a historic statement in which she claimed that “between the sea and the Jordan River, there needs to be one state, only the state of Israel.” Despite referencing the rhyme back in 2015, when making the case for a one-state solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict, Hotovely maintained that “from the river to the sea” is a genocidal chant when used by pro-Palestine protesters. "

https://unherd.com/thepost/israeli-ambassador-debates-from-the-river-to-the-sea/#:~:text=In%20an%20extended%20interview%20with,2015%2C%20when%20making%20the%20case

Her explanation about why it's OK for her to say it but not for others is simply 😳

This is a good explanatory article about the true meaning:

‘From the river to the sea’: What does the Palestinian slogan really mean?

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/2/from-the-river-to-the-sea-what-does-the-palestinian-slogan-really-mean

“It’s important to remember this chant is in English and it doesn’t rhyme in Arabic, it is used in demonstrations in Western countries,” he said. “The controversy has been fabricated to prevent solidarity in the West with the Palestinians.”

What about the settlers murdering Palestinians in the West Bank? Just quietly when the focus is on the genocide in Gaza. Hoping the world doesn’t notice.

the unchallenged Islamophobia from pro-Likud Israelis is repulsive. Utterly repulsive. why are so many racist israelis shouting down the anti Likud israelis?

what a shame there are so many right wing nasty genocide-supporting islamophobes in both Israel and the UK supporting Likud’s murderous actions. I hope Netanyahu burns in hell with bin Laden, Zarkawi , Hitler et al and I hope those racists supporting him are held to account by whatever God they believe has given them the right to slaughter women children and men of Gaza.

Where o where in the definition of genocide does it say that if one group of a people instigate violence, then wiping out the people is not genocide? The US army has bombed lots of places. Would it therefore be fine for people from one of those places to raze the US to the ground? Man, woman and child? That’s fine because the army started it and they are all American? Bullshit.

people who need to use semantics about genocide are invariably in the wrong. Once you are ‘oh this factor means it doesn’t technically count’ then you’re advocating for widespread murder of innocents.

@Toothyfruity

But wait...the UK doesn't sponsor genocide in those places.

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An interesting comment.

So the UK gives £58 million a year in foreign aid to .Pakistan:

www.context.news/socioeconomic-inclusion/britains-foreign-aid-where-does-the-money-go

Yet Pakistan is currently in the process of expelling 1.7 million Afghans including many who were born in Pakistan.

www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/11/06/pakistan-undocumented-afghanistan-refugee-expel-migrants/#

With regards to Sudan the UK gives £31 million in foreign aid.

Similarly Sudan is currently committing ethic cleansing of black Africans:

amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/11/08/africa/ethnic-groups-rounded-up-in-sudans-darfur-intl/index.html

Whereas the UK financially contributes zero to Israel in foreign aid or militarily.

So whilst it can be claimed in a very configurable manner that the UK is giving money to Pakistan to carry out "genocide" the same can not be said of Israel.

But there doesn't seem to be any protests about Pakistan or Sudan but hey don't let facts and real world evidence get in the way of your opinions and prejudice.

They being Jews or Israel. What other genocide are you accusing them of now??

Also op you can post Al-Jazeera (that well known unbiased source) all you want but doesn't change what the intent of that chant is - that they believe the land stretching from the river jodan to the med sea should belong to the palastians - ie the total eradication of Israel and all its citizens. That's it's meaning. Plain and simple.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_the_river_to_the_sea

sounds like a call for the eradication of Israel to me and that’s certainly how it is generally accepted. It has been used since 1960’s and is an adaptation from the Arabic from the water to the water which means from the Jordan river to the Mediterranean ie the eradication of Israel.
since you asked.

Israel’s new deputy foreign minister on Thursday delivered a defiant message to the international community, saying that Israel owes no apologies for its policies in the Holy Land and citing religious texts to back her belief that it belongs to the Jewish people

She does seem a wee bit entitled

Nice try. I haven't mentioned Jews at any stage so I have no idea why you've asked me that daft question.

@1dayatatime that's messed up. If I was British I would be embarrassed and appalled. Thankfully I'm not. I haven't seen British politicians promoting genocide in those countries, trying to stifle protests at home that are in favour of ceasefires or travelling over to visit their leaders to offer their full support for their crimes against humanity. Maybe they have? Probably not but I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong.

I ask myself that too, where are all the protests about human rights abuses in Middle Eastern countries, China and the war in Ukraine. Funny they do not attract huge protest marches. .... oh but wait

The UK isn’t backing those regimes. You know the protests are directed at the UK government not the Israeli government right?

I ask myself that too, where are all the protests about human rights abuses in Middle Eastern countries, China and the war in Ukraine. Funny they do not attract huge protest marches. .... oh but wait ...

I attended protests about Ukraine, fundraisers, DD sold crafts to raise money, we donated. Fuck, my playlist is full of Ukrainian pop music because that seems an easy way to get money into their hands.

There have been massive, long-running threads about Ukraine.

There are loads about ethical travel in places like China and the ME because that;s about all we can do, considering they don't give a shit what we think. Israel really does give a shit because being bolstered by the West is actually important. hence feeling like there is a protest to be made.

I know it doesn't suit the narrative that any objection to bombing residential areas full of children flat is antisemitism. But typically while the bombing of babies is still going on, it tends to be a good idea not to cheer it.

I don't think the OP actually cares.

Yep, correct ✅

The protests are to show solidarity to the world for Palestine and to ask for a ceasefire. The protests are also directed at the U.K. government because rishi sunak said the whole of the U.K. stands with Israel. He doesn’t decide for us. Many people joined the protests to show the world he doesn’t speak for them. Then that evil cruella, sorry I mean Suella, called pro Palestinian marches, hate marches and tried every possible means to remove the right to protest peacefully. So more people hit the protests.
Then many people saw how deaths of innocent civilians, especially babies was seen by some pro Israeli supporters as a victory for the Israeli government, so even more people committed towards being the voice for Palestine.

@Toothyfruity

"1dayatatime that's messed up. If I was British I would be embarrassed and appalled. Thankfully I'm not. I haven't seen British politicians promoting genocide in those countries, trying to stifle protests at home that are in favour of ceasefires or travelling over to visit their leaders to offer their full support for their crimes against humanity. Maybe they have? Probably not but I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong".

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In answer to your points despite what you have been led to believe there has been no promotion of genocide by British politicians in either Gaza, Pakistan or Sudan. They may have stayed silent on the issue but they have most definitely not promoted it.

There have been no protests or political interest about the forced deportation of 1.7 million Afghans by Pakistan or the genocide against black Africans in Sudan basically because no one gives a shit about it.

In the case of Pakistan it is Muslims badly treating other Muslims and in Sudan it is Muslims committing genocide against predominantly Christians.

Imagine the outrage if the UK as a Christian country forcibly deported 1.7 million Muslim migrants including those that were born here. But for Pakistan to do then no one is bothered.

@Creatingusernamesismygame

The protests are to show solidarity to the world for Palestine and to ask for a ceasefire. The protests are also directed at the U.K. government because rishi sunak said the whole of the U.K. stands with Israel.

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Out of interest would you protest to show solidarity with the 1.7 million Afghans being forcibly deported from Pakistan or the genocide taking place in Sudan against black Africans?

Both Sudan and Pakistan receive funding from the UK Government and quite frankly the plight of these people need the publicity as currently no one gives a shit or even knows.

@1dayatatime I thought we were past the stage of whataboutery as it has been used ad nauseam 😒

I wonder why you and others criticising and trying to derail my thread (yet again) are not trying to explain/ justify instead why the Israeli ambassador to the UK has clearly said (when she was deputy foreign minister):

"The international community deals with considerations of morality and justice. Facing this, we have to return to the basic truth of our right to this land. This entire land is ours. All of it, from the [Mediterranean] Sea to the [Jordan] River, and we are not here to apologise for this.”

"In a direct challenge to international pressure for a revival of peace talks and criticism of Israel's settlement building in the occupied West Bank, she later added: "We expect as a mater of principle the international community to recognise Israel's right to build homes for Jews in their homeland everywhere."

World should recognise Israel's historic claim to land from river to sea, minister says
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/11624355/World-should-recognise-Israels-historic-claim-to-land-from-river-to-sea-minister-says.html

This is a diplomat/ politician who speaks for her country and not a terrorist group. So where's the outrage?

@Ohlalalalala you really have the cheek to talk about whataboutery. Your sole purpose, in your constant controversial threads, is to heighten tension. You really expect posters not to defend their beliefs and opinions 🙄

So are you defending your beliefs and opinions or attacking me? 🤔
My threads are factual with sources. If you don't agree with any point you're free to give your counter arguments in a polite/ non rude manner. If not, no one is asking for your opinion here.

@Ohlalalalala
Your posts:
"@1dayatatime I thought we were past the stage of whataboutery as it has been used ad nauseam 😒

I wonder why you and others criticising and trying to derail my thread (yet again"

Followed by

"So are you defending your beliefs and opinions or attacking me? 🤔
My threads are factual with sources. If you don't agree with any point you're free to give your counter arguments in a polite/ non rude manner. If not, no one is asking for your opinion here."

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Your hypocrisy is blatantly transparent.

So why is it fine for pro-Palestine posters to say it but not Israeli politicians?

"We need to get back to the basic truth of our right to this land."

Definitely not the basic truth. No religion should have the power to wipe out a civilisation because it is their God given "right".

and yet my totally non offensive post got deleted for pointing out the op hadn’t made any contribution of their own to the post.

bonkers

@Ohlalalalala

Ahh so in addition to hypocrisy you also resort to personal insults.

It means different things to different people. For some such as Hamas and their crazy supporters annihilation of Israel, for others a two state or one state solution for both Israelis and Palestinians, or one state including occupied territories for just Israel

However, as the slogan is used by the brutal terrorist group Hamas to mean annihilation of Israel, which is unacceptable - as is just one state for Israel including occupied territories - I think supporters of a return to the peace process between Palestinians and Israelis should probably find some other slogan.