What are the people "Marching" in London every Saturday realistically hoping to achieve?

[Flapjacker48]

It won't change UK government policy. It won't result in a ceasefire in Gaza. It won't magically resolve the situation in Palestine.

Same as all the other big marches - War in Iraq etc. Changed nothing.

However in this thread, like most threads about the marches, there are loads of people falling over to explain why X poster that looks anti-semitic actually isn't or Y genocidal chant has actually been misinterpreted.

Why don't people just choose their words carefully, and make their placards and chants say what they actually think - then there will be no room for misinterpretation.

I’m not sure what this has to do with “Not in my name”.
Are you saying you think it’s antisemitic?

I saw it on an interview live with UNWRA so I can’t find it

However let’s suggest a lot of the food and water does end up with Hamas but also goes to civilians. Are you suggesting Israel’s approach then is the right one and one the world should support and not protest against ? And importantly, do you support the starvation /death by dehydration of 2.2 million to ensure 50,000(?) of them are a bit weaker?

Or alternative do you support the complete starvation of them all so that those 50,000 definitely die as well but well the remaining become ‘collateral damage’ and unfortunately that is what happens in wars. Genuinely interested in this.

@Reallifelurker No I of course don't think saying 'not in my name' is anti-semitic. I just think it's oddly self-obsessed and hugely missing the point in this particular case. Literally no-one in the Israeli government is fighting in the name of some random protestors in Trafalgar Square, or cares what they have to say. They're fighting for their country's existence and to bring their hostages home.

I imagine many people are marching because they are decent people who are traumatised by seeing Palestinians being massacred. And they feel helpless. But also because they don’t want Sunak speaking for them with his support for Israel. Good for them I say.

These protests tend to get hijacked unfortunately by hateful extremists. I wish there were enough police to go straight in and get these people banned. No excuse for swastika posters. Appalling.

I think I have seen David baddiel and others ask why people weren’t protesting against Hamas? Well the UK government was not telling everyone that they stood by Hamas. And people don’t tend to protest against organisations like the taliban and Isis; they protest against governments.

Israel markets itself as a democracy. It enters the Eurovision Song Contest! It’s a nice country allied with the west!! That’s why people expect it not to bomb thousands of innocent people. And that’s why people protest against slimy sunak siding with Israel. ‘Not in our name’.

I don’t think all marchers should be tarred by the same brush. Many of them are wanting peace for everyone. But it’s the extreme ones that get into the media unfortunately, and make Jewish people feel unsafe, which is just horrible.

The British government are supporting Israels bombing of Gaza. I think that that is generally what British people are talking about when they say not in my name. They are saying that they don't stand with the British Government, the British Government don't speak for them. They don't think that people in Israel are fighting in their name, that would be absurd.

Bingo. When sunak said uk hopes Israel wins he wasn’t speaking for me or that’s not what I hope

It's increased over 1000% in London alone compared to about 150% rise in Islamophobia. Considering there are only around 270,000 Jews in the UK compared to nearly 4 million Muslims, the increase is utterly horrifying.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2023/oct/20/antisemitic-hate-crimes-in-london-rise-1350-since-israel-hamas-war-met-says

Literally no-one in the Israeli government is fighting in the name of some random protestors in Trafalgar Square, or cares what they have to say. They're fighting for their country's existence and to bring their hostages home.

True but like I said before it’s probably aimed more at Sunak than the Israelis.

The Israelis are having their own protest marches though.

Agree

Oh, you have missed the point. The protest is to UK government saying don’t support Israel’s ruthlessness as our representative speaking on our behalf.

@EasterIssland So if you don't want Israel to win this war, what do you want to happen exactly?

Again, to be clear, this is not to justify the way in which Israel is fighting the war... but I'm interested to know what you think the ideal outcome would be here? Israel withdraw entirely and allow their citizens to be be murdered, raped and have rockets fired at them? Presumably not. So what exactly?

Er, no?
I can’t be bothered to type out a similarly overwrought response to your weirdly accusatory post so just I’ll c&p what I said on another thread:

I believe hugely increasing the flow of humanitarian aid into Gaza outweighs Israeli concerns about possible arms smuggling and Hamas “redistribution” of supplies in aid convoys,

I was asking for a source because I want to know more about what’s happening with aid efforts.

When sunak said uk hopes Israel wins he wasn’t speaking for me or that’s not what I hope

Since the alternative is that Hamas wins, I certainly do hope. I just want them to do it without killing so many children.

I marched last week to be part of the cumulative effect of massive groups of people marching in cities all over Europe.

To show that I stood against the genicide, was calling for a ceasefire, to bear witness to Gazan suffering in the face of the Israelis targeting journalists, cutting off wifi, plunging the Strip into darkness.

To show that Sunak’s complicit stance was not in my name. To make it harder for the media to control the narrative.

Everyone understands that for every person marching there are others who can’t march, for whatever reason, or who are very uncomfortable but not quite at the point of taking to the streets. It’s proportionately indicative, not the sum number of people who protest.

It may change nothing, but hopefully the images of ordinary people protesting from London to Washington to Jerusalem will one day make the history books, if anyone’s still here to write them. To Gazan universities have been bombed so academe is part of what’s under threat.

The protest is for Sunak to stop sending aid / guns / artillery to Israel
for Sunak not to say hope Israel wins
for suella to stop cutting out speech of freedom.
for uk to start taking a position of ceasefire when there is votes in un

I don’t have any power to talk to Israel. Sunak does have that power and he should use it to descale the situation and criticising Israel for killing innocents rather than to continue adding petrol to the fire

What outcome do you want?

In particular what do you to happen with Hamas?

The hope is that the oppression stops but you wouldn't get what that means would you

‘Literally no-one in the Israeli government is fighting in the name of some random protestors in Trafalgar Square, or cares what they have to say.’

I see it more as a message to Sunak and our government. Of course nobody in the israeli government gives a shit about a protest in London.

I’ve asked many times the question : what does Israel to win mean? Does it mean destroying Palestine and killing thousands of people ? If that’s the case , sorry but no I don’t want Israel to win

if it means getting rid of Hamas (if that’s even possible Which I don’t think there is a chance as hamas v2.0 will grow) and Israel to leave Palestine’s alone and not kill more innocents , to get the settlers back to Israel … then I agree with Israel winning.

unfortunately , right now it looks like Israel winning means wiping out Palestine and I can’t agree with that

“When sunak said uk hopes Israel wins he wasn’t speaking for me or that’s not what I hope

Since the alternative is that Hamas wins, I certainly do hope. I just want them to do it without killing so many children.”

— When it comes to human slaughter concerning two major world religions, there can be no “winner”. It’s not the side that he chose, it’s the fact he was foolish enough as a G7 premier to “pick a side” at all. Especially when Palestine was British territory just 75 years ago.

I do think it’s vital not to forget about the Israeli hostages in all this. It must be unbearable for their friends and families and goodness knows how they are being treated right now. If they are even alive.

It seems that they are not being mentioned on the march, but of course they matter too.

@sorentohigh What you say sounds great in principle - explain what it looks like in practice. Israel withdraws from Gaza and the West Bank entirely. Fine, I don't disagree with that. Then what? Right now, Hamas is still firing rockets at Israel and holding hostages. Do you think they'll just stop and give all the hostages back if and when this happens? Even though their leadership has made it explicitly clear that they will repeat 7 October again and again until Israel is destroyed? Or do you think Israel being destroyed is an admirable goal?

And I agree @EasterIssland - Israel winning absolutely can't and shouldn't mean wiping out Gaza altogether. But it also can't leave Hamas in place, for obvious reasons. Which is why what is going on is so heartbreaking. But people calling for a ceasefire are being very naive. There was a ceasefire on 6 October - Hamas broke that ceasefire by murdering 1400 people in the most brutal way imaginable.

I unfortunately can’t see an end to Hamas. I do think even if Israel got rid of all Hamas , a new Hamas would be born , same as there was another group before this one and many of the kids/teenagers that are now going through this atm will seek revenge. I’ve read there is 10k hamas members. That’s a lot of them and probably many have enrolled after suffering from previous wars, the one in 2014 I think it killed 20k. I think the solution won’t be easy but we need an independent organisation that takes control of the border and acts when any of the regions gets attacked rather than Israel taking control of the border and allowing what the settlers are doing