What are the people "Marching" in London every Saturday realistically hoping to achieve?

[Flapjacker48]

It won't change UK government policy. It won't result in a ceasefire in Gaza. It won't magically resolve the situation in Palestine.

Same as all the other big marches - War in Iraq etc. Changed nothing.

Some posters are getting into rather black and white thinking.

Israel wins / Hamas wins, neither of these outcomes are likely without genocide.
Should the region return to the old status quo ratio of one Israeli life is worth 23 Palestinian lives.
Or should we look for sustained peace and resolution.

At the moment either side can be found jumping up and down whilst shouting "I have to kill them, or they will kill me". It is not an attitude that will resolve anything. People need to start talking, proper sensible grown up talking.

I agree completely @Itisyourturntowashthebath FWIW.

But to return to where this thread started, I think these marches are doing the exact opposite of expressing that sentiment. They are (at least in their placards and chants) expressing the view that they want the Palestinians to 'win' even at the cost of the destruction of Israel. That is why Jewish people find them so frightening.

The only way to peace is through a two-state solution so it would be nice to hear some of the marchers calling for that.

I think people are waking up to what’s going on.

The internet makes it very easy to read about the Hussein-McMahon correspondence, the Sykes-Picot Agreement, the Balfour declaration, the acts of early Jewish terrorists in the 1940s, the Nakba, the apartheid and how the Gaza Strip and the West Bank are actually being run and controlled, with brutality going back decades, and those videos of Netanyahu gloating about how easy the US is to manipulate. For the first time ever, I’m giving this some attention and thinking … WTAF?

I believe that Netanyahu has harnessed the abject grief and fear generated by what happened on 7/10 to further his own goals.

I also think he saw it as an opportunity to play The Great Wartime Statesman with the constant WWII references, and to win back public favour after being on the brink of facing jail for corruption, and then trying to rig the judicial system to ensure his own impunity.

Of course this has blown back spectacularly, as most Israelis see him as being responsible for both the security failings and handling of the hostage crisis.

Have you been to a march? There are plenty of Jewish people there who are part of Jewish activism groups. Of course in huge cities there will be some bad faith actors who tag along, but these are a minuscule fraction of the hundreds of thousands involved. They are dealt with by police.

I remember going to the marches when the Lib Dems promised to get rid of student fees, but then tripled student fees in the coalition. We were all labelled yobs because of a very small handful of tag-alongs who wanted to cause destruction, despite the high numbers of peaceful protestors present.

Legitimate, peaceful protests will always be branded in a negative light because it benefits those in power for people to remain obedient and unquestioning. Look at the lengths Netanyahu is going to in order to shut down protest.

Great posts @EsmaCannonball completely on the nose. Honestly despair that so many don’t realise this. I know most MNetters mean well when they assert that it is to show compassion for Palestinians, and I know that is why they would attend such marches, but for a significant percentage, that is NOT why they’re on those marches. There’s a variety of reasons but mainly many are there simply to cause problems - disrupt and agitate, cause chaos etc, prevent society from running smoothly, undermine the police, take over public spaces, all with ultimate aim of breaking down society. Just like they did on the BLM protests or when they turn up masked and in Black Bloc to support the rights of “Trans People” at women’s meetings and start smashing windows and attacking/verbally abusing/threatening people who are peacefully meeting. Any “marginalised” community or demonstrations around them will attract them.

These marches will go on and on and they’ll make little to no difference at all to “Palestine” because that’s not what they’re really about. They’re actually succeeding very well in their aims and more of us need to understand that.

And this too!

Tbf a terrorist organisation stating its clear intention to continue atrocities probably does make it quite stark for those it’s aimed at.

Of course in huge cities there will be some bad faith actors who tag along, but these are a minuscule fraction of the hundreds of thousands involved. They are dealt with by police.

I must admit I have been wondering whether all these Twitter/ Tick Toks showing bad behaviour are really representative of the marches as a whole. Bad behaviour is more likely to go viral than good behaviour after all.

Totally agree the police should crack down on any racism/bad behaviour though. Hopefully they have been.

Yes because there’s nothing more terrifying than people in prayer at a peaceful protest 🙄

Good grief.

Out come the racists…

@OneHurtSpaggettio @Reallifelurker Yes, I have seen both the marches and some of the sit-ins at stations etc.

I don't agree that only a 'miniscule' proportion of those marches are expressing worrying sentiments. I guess it depends on your definition of worrying sentiments.

Here's how I define it. Are the things being said about Israel the same sorts of things people would say about other countries/governments they are criticising on a march? If you replace the word 'Israel' with 'UK' or 'USA' or 'Russia' does the sentence still make sense and sound like something someone would say at a protest? If it does, fine/great, it is legitimate protest against the Israeli government. If it doesn't, it's a special sort of unique hatred reserved for Israel. And my view on these marches is that there is a lot that falls on the wrong side of that line.

I did not, in any Ukraine protest/vigil, see calls for Russia/Russians to be binned, eliminated, driven into the sea, nor did I see any swastikas.

It is perfectly possible to be highly critical of this Israeli government (I am) without calling them Nazis (which they're not) or an Apartheid state (which they're also not).

No, I reject your lazy accusation, it’s meaningless.

Why does praying worry you? Genuine question. Praying for Palestine is much more common at the moment, it's a way to ask for protection for those caught up in the conflict when people in other countries feel helpless.

Pull the other one.

If it doesn't, it's a special sort of unique hatred reserved for Israel. And my view on these marches is that there is a lot that falls on the wrong side of that line.

I did not, in any Ukraine protest/vigil, see calls for Russia/Russians to be binned, eliminated, driven into the sea, nor did I see any swastikas.

I don’t think Russia is particularly well thought of when it comes to human rights. If people did t have a problem with its actions why is there a protest March in the first place? People probably did say things like Russia should be binned. I think it’s an idle threat in both cases.

Swastikas are obviously an aggressive /threatening symbol when directed at a Jewish population. That is more obviously sinister.

I am baffled why would anyone question the rightness of the protests.

The protesters are on the right side of history, just like people protesting against Vietnam war and Iraq war were.

You have to be pretty delusional, racist or ignorant if you don't see it.

Definition of apartheid

Apartheid refers to the implementation and maintenance of a system of legalized racial segregation in which one racial group is deprived of political and civil rights.

It does appear self obsessed. They might not intend that way but Israel aren't fighting in your name. The UK isn't fighting as we were in Iraq.

@Reallifelurker i have not seen anyone, at any protest or vigil since Russia invaded Ukraine, suggest that Russia has no right to exist as a country. Literally no-one. Israel is the only country whose right to exist is constantly questioned.

and there is nothing that explains this except anti-semitism. There are plenty of governments in the world doing bad things - none is loathed like Israel.

@bearofepic Have you been to Israel? You do know that non-Jews who live there (in Israel itself, not occupied territories) have all the same rights as Jewish Israelis?

i think what you mean is that they are an occupying force, and that the people in the occupied territories are oppressed? I agree with that, but it’s very different to apartheid. Just like when the British occupied other countries during the empire it was unjust but markedly different to South African apartheid?

The reason people are more vocal and upset about this is because in three weeks more children were killed vs all conflicts since 2019. That's a good reason to be upset and vocal.

https://www.savethechildren.net/news/gaza-3195-children-killed-three-weeks-surpasses-annual-number-children-killed-conflict-zones

God yes. The hostages are forgotten in this orgy of self-righteousness. The 'not in our name' people are so ridiculous & narcissistic. If they really cared about democracy (which is surely the point of calling out government actions 'in my name') they would be out every week protesting Hamas who havent held an election in nearly 20 years, or Iran, or Saudi Arabia, or China etc.

Let us not forget the 2.3m people in Gaza unable to leave, deprived of food, human rights, water, most of which are now homeless yet innocent.

@Reallifelurker i have not seen anyone, at any protest or vigil since Russia invaded Ukraine, suggest that Russia has no right to exist as a country. Literally no-one.
Israel is the only country whose right to exist is constantly questioned.

It’s true Israel’s right to exist is questioned by Islamic extremists but I’m not sure it’s seriously questioned in general. I mean..it does exist. That can’t be undone.

I’m genuinely not sure how we get from being critical of Israel’s actions to wanting it to cease to exist. I mean I’d like it’s current government to cease to exist..

and there is nothing that explains this except anti-semitism. There are plenty of governments in the world doing bad things - none is loathed like Israel

I don’t think people are indifferent to the wrong doings of other country’s nor do I really think Israel is loathed. Why would it be?

Do stop putting words in people's mouths.
If you'd ever engaged with this poster previously you'd know that's absolutely not what they want, in addition to the fact they didn't say so.