What are the people "Marching" in London every Saturday realistically hoping to achieve?

[Flapjacker48]

It won't change UK government policy. It won't result in a ceasefire in Gaza. It won't magically resolve the situation in Palestine.

Same as all the other big marches - War in Iraq etc. Changed nothing.

Also as narcissistic and self-absorbed as the slogan 'not in my name' was when applied to the war in Iraq, it is laughably irrelevant here. I can promise you @areyouhavinglaugh that no-one could care any less about your name or that of anyone else on that demonstration. The Israeli government are fighting for the names (and lives) of the hostages still held in Gaza, and the names of the 1400 murdered on 7 October, just for a start.

And to be clear, this is not justifying the way in which this war is being fought but the idea that anyone will think 'oh those people holding socialist worker placards on Oxford Street look a bit cross, we'd better leave the hostages where they are then'... really needs to get over themselves.

Exactly @bearofepic

They think we are stupid, but we cannot stand by and watch 3000 children be obliterated for it.

@bearofepic 'Funds from pressure groups?' Nicely worded. You mean 'in the pay of the Jewish lobby' - you might as well come right out and say it, everyone can read it between the lines of your post.

Exactly this.

I don’t know a single pro-Palestine person who hasn’t been in awe of what Israelis and also Jewish people in the U.K. have been doing to support Palestinians.

Israeli’s protesting are facing horrific brutality from the people they pay their taxes to, and yet are still going out to protest. I wonder how much smaller our marches would be if that was the norm.

Jewish people in the U.K. may get family backlash and yet are holding firm in their beliefs and are attending marches and joining activism groups.

Sorry I don't understand what you mean by 'propaganda' @areyouhavinglaugh? I'm expressing a point of view. Are you referring to what I've said about murdered Israeli citizens and hostages as 'propaganda'?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_lobby_in_the_United_States#Campaign_donations

Here is some information about the Israel lobby in the US.

Absolutely agree with you.
I was at the theatre yesterday so inadvertently was surrounded by protesters and the atmosphere was poisonous and scary Must be terrifying to be Jewish .
Surely our society is based on being inclusive of everyone.

This sounds like something from 1930s Germany.

Yep it does

Also as narcissistic and self-absorbed as the slogan 'not in my name' was when applied to the war in Iraq, it is laughably irrelevant here. I can promise you @areyouhavinglaugh that no-one could care any less about your name or that of anyone else on that demonstration

It’s not meant literally* *.

This.

However, I defend the right for people to march PEACEFULLY without the horrible anti semitic comments, chanting, posters etc.

I see Israel has said today that no ceasefire without release of hostages. I can see why they would hold for this.

@bearofepic Thanks for the information about 'the Israel lobby'. There are all sorts of lobby groups in the world you know, that make donations to political campaigns and candidacies, it's how most political parties are funded and how world diplomacy is run. This is not controversial. A particular obsession with 'funding' from 'the Israel lobby' is really not a great look... to an outside eye, it looks really quite a lot like anti-semitism which I'm sure you'll be keen to avoid!

I went again to one outside of London this weekend. I can't say that I encountered anti-semitism. If I saw any, I honestly would have been appalled and deeply disappointed. I'm in no way denying the experiences of the people who've expressed concern and fear in this thread. If you see anti-semitism it should be reported, absolutely.

I think this rhetoric about shutting down the protests is harmful and worrying. The marches are not full of hate. They consist of people who know they need to stand up and express that the genocide happening in Gaza, the war crimes, the illegal occupation, and the absolutely untouchable nature of Israel have gone too far. These are people protesting because their voices are not represented in our governments or in our media.

The Palestinian diaspora in the UK is large, are you saying we should just sit back and take it? Can you not see how heartbreaking that is from a Palestinian perspective? If you're going to reply to this, please be reasonable and kind, I've tried my best to be in this post. I honestly can't deal with the arguing and hatred today.

@Reallifelurker I do understand it's not meant literally.

However in this thread, like most threads about the marches, there are loads of people falling over to explain why X poster that looks anti-semitic actually isn't or Y genocidal chant has actually been misinterpreted.

Why don't people just choose their words carefully, and make their placards and chants say what they actually think - then there will be no room for misinterpretation.

For what it's worth @Shouldimove I definitely do not believe any of these protests should be shut down. I am very pro-free speech and freedom of expression. I also find it useful to see what people on these marches actually think and say.

But what I think should happen is that the good people going on these marches for good, compassionate reasons should listen to what Jewish people have to say about why the slogans being used are so terrifying.

It is perfectly possible to be highly critical of Israel's current government without being anti-semitic (I am) but many on the marches are falling short.

It must be awful for both Palestinian and Israeli perspective. There is much hurt for both people's and others of other nationalities that also had loved ones killed so far or taken hostage. There are no winners in this.

The Israeli government have killed 60 hostages through air strikes. They are subjecting the hostages to the exact same collective punishment that they’re inflicting on the Palestinians. No clean water. Dwindling medical supplies. No food.

Hostages were released by Hamas on humanitarian grounds without Netanyahu even managing to strike a deal.

What Netanyahu is doing has nothing to do with saving hostages and has everything to do with his party’s deeply racist aims.

Why do you think thousands of Israelis came out in protest about the hostages yesterday, despite suffering horrific violence being inflicted on them?

Israel may soon be using live ammunition against protestors:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/cabinet-said-slated-to-okay-police-use-of-live-fire-against-protesters-blocking-roads-during-multi-front-war/

@OneHurtSpaggettio I agree with a lot of what you say in your post and am no fan of Netanyahu.

That doesn't change any of what I've said above about the unpleasant and anti-semitic nature of the marches in the UK. Nor does it change the fact that this war absolutely is about the hostages and what happened on 7 Oct, even if Netanyahu is fighting it badly and committing war crimes. War crimes are committed even in just wars.

@Shouldimove The tone of your post is unusually thoughtful and constructive for this thread so I'm trying to engage similarly when I say/ask... do you really think Israel is 'untouchable'? I think feeling like that shows a lot of the problem at the heart of this conflict because Israelis at the moment feel absolutely existentially threatened. They are surrounded by neighbours who would like to eliminate their state and kill them all, and just a few weeks ago, 1400 of their citizens were murdered and 240 taken hostage.

None of this justifies what innocent Palestinians are going through, none of it, but I'm saying it just to try and show that the only solution and way through this is to have empathy with both sides. Seeing Israel as the evil and all powerful aggressor - particularly in this situation after what happened a few weeks ago - isn't correct or balanced.

Really good post, thank you. I feel really worried about the way this conflict is being discussed and reacted to over the last month and its just... troubling to me, that so many are so strongly on one side over the other, to the point of becoming anti semitic about it a lot of the time ( not all criticism is obviously ). To me, there is no justification for the actions of either side in this and any march I would go to, and I went to the Iraq one in London, would have to be for peace for both sides, an immediate return of all hostages and a ceasefire. I support the right to protest, but I don't think these ones are helping and clearly they are now adding to the problem.

One million people marched against Blair’s wars. Achieved nothing. Normal people are horrified by the glorifying of a terrorist group and their pogrom again innocent people.

Agree