What are the people "Marching" in London every Saturday realistically hoping to achieve?

[Flapjacker48]

It won't change UK government policy. It won't result in a ceasefire in Gaza. It won't magically resolve the situation in Palestine.

Same as all the other big marches - War in Iraq etc. Changed nothing.

Yes I wasn't calling for a one sided ceasefire but in the context of the thread on why people are marching and what they hope to achieve
One of the aims is to sway our government from their current stance and also to demonstrate that the majority disagree with it

Did they also ask ‘would you like Hamas to get away with that horrendous terror attack, and to give them time and resources to plan and execute another one’?

What would the answer to that be?

Because you can’t answer ‘yes’ to ‘I want a ceasefire’ and ‘no’ to ‘I want Hamas to get away with terrorism and commit more atrocities’. It’s a forced choice. Yes to one is yes to the other.

That is simply not true. At all.
There are many Jewish Israeli groups who have also called for a ceasefire
Would that suggest they think 'I want Hamas to get away with terrorism and commit more atrocities'? Ofcourse not and it would be insulting to suggest so

Jewish groups calling for a ceasefire doesn’t solve the problem of a ceasefire allowing Hamas to get away with terrorism and giving them the time and resources to plan another attack.

I imagine the vast majority of people would like the slaughter in Gaza to just stop. They would also like Hamas to be stopped and for them to commit no more atrocities.

But the billion dollar question is how can you have both?

Calling for a ceasefire and ignoring the unpleasant consequences of a ceasefire in terms of boosting Hamas is just…well, easy, isn’t it?

It depends how you view it really. The reason Israel wants to get rid of Hamas is for security and peace. Many question if firstly they will ever be fully rid of Hamas, not only as a person but an ideology. And secondly will their stance and the way they have conducted this war bring about peace for the region and Israel or only serve to radicalise and create more enemies.

It's not as black and white as either of us may be portraying it right now but the vast majority don't only see one option as the only one for safety and peace in the long run.

The reason Israel wants to get rid of Hamas is for security and peace.

Well yes, they dragged men, women and children out of their beds, tortured and murdered them and said they will keep doing it.

That’s a bit of an incentive to want rid of them isn’t it. Wouldn’t you?

So how would you stop Hamas committing more atrocities as they have said they fully intend to? By stopping attacking the place where they are hiding out (and firing rockets from)? By leaving them alone?

That’s not realistic, is it?

I don't deny the need for Hamas to go. As i have said before not only for the Israelis but for the Palestinians too.

I could also ask you the same, what guarantee is there that through this war Israel will fully be able to get rid of Hamas and that the attacks won't happen again especially as its said their leader is not even in Gaza. There isn't

The point is we both want the same thing which is peace for Israel and palestine but we disagree in the way it's being done.

Lots of “civilians” here. Couple that with the number of accounts of the IDF tanks and soldiers firing like maniacs into buildings and ravers, and this is terrible.

How do you think it can be done though? A ceasefire won't help rid Palestine of Hamas. So what do you think will? How do you think Israel can protect itself from further terrorist attacks like the one that just happened?

How do you think it can be done though? A ceasefire won't help rid Palestine of Hamas. So what do you think will? How do you think Israel can protect itself from further terrorist attacks like the one that just happened

Do you think the current war will get rid of Hamas? I mean it may slow them down if some of their infrastructure is damaged but will it actually get rid of them?

If neither option is going to get rid of them then at least a ceasefire would stop Palestinians civilians being killed? I don’t know if it would necessarily put Israel at risk of imminent harm.

Negotiate a ceasefire that includes the release of hostages aswell as the Palestinians being detained by Israel without charge or trial
This has to involve external parties getting involved including western and Arab governments.

Get rid of Netanyahu and the extreme elements of his right wing government and have Hamas replaced too, both replaced by leaders who are willing to come to the table and negotiate a fair two state solution

Dismantle the illegal settlements in the west bank and give the settlers a home or place to live within Israel

This is a far better alternative than what we are witnessing now and continue to witness in the days to come, which in my opinion will not lead Israel to achieve the goal of safety but rather demonise and isolate it by many countries and create a whole host of new safety issues and enemies.

I'm sure some of you may disagree which you are more than entitled to do so but as I was asked what i thought, this is it

Sausagenbacon · Yesterday 16:24
**
I think this will lead to the rise of the Far Right in the UK”

Where have you been these past few year? The far right has already risen. Look at the government front bench.

@Jupitersstorm

I was just expressing my opinion and there are many, many posts that are far more vociferous so actually, I consider that comment in line with the tone of many posts on Mumsnet. So to answer your question - not looking to argue, just expressing my point of view. I do not consider my post to be disrespectful whatsoever”

So you are right and anyone who disagrees with you is wrong or naive?

Have you ever considered that just maybe you might not be right about everything.

Your post was disrespectful.

I think calling the current government ' far right' really minimises the horror of what the 'Far Right' really is. They are certainly fairly Right Wing, and the likes of Suella Braverman and Miriam Cates with her ' babies for the Fatherland' rhetoric has many elements of the Far Right but the actual Far Right are far, far worse.

That would be ideal, and I agree that what the Israeli government are doing now will not get rid of Hamas or a future even worse terrorist organisation. It also calls into question the efficacy of the IDF if they cannot target Hamas more effectively than this. I dont know what the answer is or if it is even possible to get to the situation you lay out, without International peacekeeping forces, but they would have to involve Arab nations to avoid accusations of Western interference. Hamas benefit so much from Palestinians being killed, in terms of propaganda and recruitment campaigns that Israel are playing into their hands, but on the other hand the Israeli government wants to protect their citizens from being brutally massacred.

Angrycat2768

I think this Government will be far right unleashed if, horror, it is elected again. Braverman in particular is pushing and pushing just that little bit further with every new announcement of intent to see just how far she can go. It’s alarming that each horrendous statement seemingly provokes little reaction from the general public. So, emboldened, she comes out with the next hateful idea.

God help anyone who is “other” should they get in again, when she’ll almost certainly be leader within a year.

I agree with alot of what you say
There are no easy answers but my only point is that the one we are witnessing cannot be the way forward
Not for Israel. And not for Palestine
If our world leaders were not so selfish and focused entirely on picking 'teams' depending on which side benefits their own interests the most, then what we are seeing now could well and truly have been avoided, aswell as the atrocities of the 7th of October and the atrocities on both sides before it.
But do we continue to try and tear each other down and point out who did more wrongs or look for a way forward

And by world leaders that includes the Arab leaders too
Some may disagree but I hold alot of criticism for them in what I see as abandoning the Palestinians for so long and thus being a part of the problem in what we are witnessing today
The blame cannot be put squarely on one party
Everyone involved has to do better

Or then the vicious cycle of violence and instability simply continues

Hamas leaders, who arranged a the pogrom against Jewish people are multi billionaires who live a life of luxury in Qatar, paid for by aid money which should be to make Palestinians better off so they can live better lives. The leaders want them poor, uneducated and having lots of children to cause trouble.

There also two of the leaders of this terrorist organisation who live in ex-council houses they have bought in London, on UK passports given to them by Labour,WHY?

Ah, you make it sound easy.... 'off you pop Hamas, we are installing new leaders who will negotiate '.... Hamas are like, not a chance and keep lobbing missiles etc etc and on it goes.

These Hamas chaps seem very easy going and reasonable in your example of how to sort the problems 🙄

Where have you been these past few year? The far right has already risen. Look at the government front bench.
Ridiculous.

Yes it’s very clear how extreme Hamas are

They won’t say ok you take over

It’ll be to their end

Hmm.
I read that post and it didn't seem disrespectful to me. Perhaps you just don't agree with the poster's stance which subconsciously irked you and caused you to chime in? Just a possibility?

I have issues with everyone involved, but do you understand the history of the other Arab nations with Palestine? Theres a reason everyone is reluctant to welcome them, theres distrust because of that history. It is always innocent non combative civilians that suffer, but I think there are reasons for everyone surrounding them to be uneasy.

Get rid of Netanyahu and the extreme elements of his right wing government

Who would get rid of him, and how? there would be resistance wouldn't there, so do you think that would really be an option?

and have Hamas replaced too

First you would need to find them all, right? Replace with who? What are the alternatives and who would run the elections? I think you're suggesting an international force to go into Gaza, which does seem the best out of a bad lot of options. Given the history of our occupations in other countries, I am not hopeful that this is something the world knows how to do well.