What are the people "Marching" in London every Saturday realistically hoping to achieve?

[Flapjacker48]

It won't change UK government policy. It won't result in a ceasefire in Gaza. It won't magically resolve the situation in Palestine.

Same as all the other big marches - War in Iraq etc. Changed nothing.

again, nobody thinks everyone going is anti semitic.
What do the protestors think they need to do in response to the anti semitism happening in the Uk, including at some marches, and the attack on Israel on the 7th?

Ummm, you said Israel doesn't want a ceasefire,... how about they might do if hostages released? Hamas still have rather a lot of them!

You conveniently missed that Hamas wouldn't honour a ceasefire since its intended aim is to wipe Israel out. Giving them chance to regroup and come back at Israel cannot be allowed.

The Jewish people know that they need to fight for their existence and western leaders also appreciate that Hamas should not be allowed to achieve its aim of wiping Israel out. Hence the support from lots of countries. It's not just commercial gains, most of the world were absolutely sickened by the holocaust and understand the concerns of Jewish people.

@Iwantcakeeveryday

nothing. They need to do nothing.

These marches are not about you.
They are not support for Hamas
They are not hate marches
They are ordinary people horrified by the murder of innocents in Gaza.

Everyone (certainly on this Board) and worldwide media/politicians/celebs/ human beings have already condemned Hamas.

It's time for people to condemn Israel & their murderous collective punishment of civilians who are over 50% kids.

It's that simple

I just hope that leaders would be as understanding of Palestinians fighting for their existence. Maybe when this is all over the US can sponsor a Palestinian army to the tune of billions every year, let's give them war planes and 1000s of tons of bombs. Then the next time Israel threaten Palestinians existence, when they bomb little boys playing on the beach or when they shoot children hanging out their washing or shoot children at their school desks or steal peoples land and homes these countries can all cheerlead Palestinians 'protecting themselves' as they drop the equivalent of 2 nuclear bombs on Israel. And don't worry, people will be sure not to protest about it because that's wrong too, I mean why should even care when there is so much else going on in the world?

How do you know you speak for the majority? Some people are also alarmed at the way some extremists are behaving whilst showing support for Gaza. Some do themselves no favours. Attacks on Jewish people in the UK are totally unacceptable, increase in violence here or hate speech also totally unacceptable.

Personally I publicise any Jew or Jewish group that opposes the genocide. I want every human being to be able to live their best life

Lots of people cherry pick bits of history and parrot other bits picked up on X or Insta that aren't entirely true as facts... as @noblegiraffe said its much more complicated that some would believe.

@DevonWindyWeather

no one knows wether they speak for the majority. However the world wide free palestine marches would suggest the tide is turning and people are seeing the Israeli government for what they are by their own actions. Bombing civilians.

The UN are speaking out about Israeli war crimes.
Amnesty are speaking out about Israeli war crimes
Save the children are speaking out about Israeli war crimes
Doctors Without Borders are speaking out about Israeli war crimes.

The "ah but bad Hamas " excuse is wearing thin after a month of collective punishment of civilians in Gaza.

People are seeing pictures of what looks like hell (and is in fact Gaza) on their news and cellphones & the genie isn't going back in the bottle.
People are seeing the murdered children in their thousands.

Almost Every country is demanding a ceasefire
Etc etc

Suggests that the majority want Israel to stop & he held accountable.

That does not equate with being antisemitic but
I appreciate that some Jewish people will feel frightened and that is awful and must be (and is ) condemned.

I also appreciate that there has been deliberate muddying of the waters where some people are using the situation to be antisemitic & violent & others who are using antisemitism as a shield to avoid valid condemnation of war crimes of Israel.

For my perspective - the prime minister of the UK does not speak for me (not anyone I know)

I do not stand with Israel.

I stand with Palestine.

For me, I'm perfectly willing to listen to Herzog & Bibi speak their mind (as long as they are doing it from The Hague)

Realpolitik is accurate, unfortunately.
Rishi is attending lots of meetings about making the UK the future hub of AI. It’s really not a time to offend countries with a lot of tech industry (Israel and the US).

I mean, I get it - his job isn’t actually to look after Gaza, his job is to look after the UK.

Can we sit and sip our lattes, knowing that our comfort and wealth was built on turning a blind eye to the suffering of some of the world’s poorest children?

Nothing about this conflict is simple and there are certainly people going on these marches who do wish death to all Jewish people. This is worrying. Stating that everyone on the march is just an ordinary person who is upset (understandably) at people dying in Gaza doesn't take those fears away.

How far back should we go?

Well the whole thing is horribly reminiscent of Herod’s Slaughter of the Innocents, but we could also start with the Book of Amos.

I guess what I was kind of hoping for was for the US and UK to get more involved in advising Israel on strategies to weaken Hamas, or at least get more involved in humanitarian efforts to limit the loss of civilian life. Instead, they've stood at the sidelines saying 'it's not up to us to tell another country how to defend itself'. What's the point in having international laws if, when an actual war comes along, everybody just shrugs their shoulders and says 'yeah, whatever!'

@BeginningToLookALotLike no one is saying the conflict is simple.
That's not this thread.

This thread is the marches & what they are or are not achieving & what the people who are going to them hope they are achieving.

And that is an immediate end to the collective punishment of the people of Gaza.

That is what is simple for me. It's why I'm marching.

Oh I agree 100% I have said this from the start. That the western governments have done Israel a huge huge disservice. But each has their own political agendas.
I think the Arab countries should have also played a bigger role. Not just in this war but prior to it. If everyone in power effectively did a better job at what they are supposed to be doing alot of deaths and misery could have been avoided.

Less guilt. At least they've done something.

The thing is the US was trying that when Hamas fired rockets at their own hospital and blamed Israel, leading to the Jordanians and Egypitians pulling out of talks. The whole reason this started was because Saudi Arabia was making moves to recognise Israel. How can you negotiate with people like that on the other side? I think the only way to end this would be to have some kind if UN permanent peacekeeping force enforcing a 2 state solution. But I can't see that happening.

In response to the OP’s question: What are the people "Marching" in London every Saturday realistically hoping to achieve?, there have been these kinds of responses:

‘They are hoping to achieve the promotion of vile anti-semitism via our peaceful country's light touch policing and strong human rights record in allowing free speech and peaceful protests.’

‘It's a message that they are 'against' Jews rather than 'for ' Palestinians’

‘They don't care about actually achieving anything, it’s performative nonsense (look at how much fun they seem to be having) and in many cases overt Jew hatred.’

‘it gives people an excuse to stand with crowds and shout antisemitic abuse and get away with it.’

Clearly more than one poster prefers to ignore the decent marchers who walk amongst the antisemitic vile people there.

Jewish people demonstrating today at liberty statue in nyc
https://twitter.com/IfNotNowOrg/status/1721596561560342650

@coughingdodger
Israel’s very presence was always a problem for its neighbours, especially as many of them were kicked out of their homes to make way, but that could have been softened over time. However Israel, far from being the humble and grateful newcomer, willing to accept that its arrival has caused problems, has done nothing to endear itself.

I can't believe I'm reading this. Jews have lived in the Holy Land before Islam existed. Do you know any history? Israel is not a 'newcomer'. All the states in the region were newly created in the aftermath of complex colonial histories. There's a reason why rockets are permanently directed at the only Jewish state and its nothing to do with them not being fucking humble enough.

How is this blatant antisemitism allowed on here?

The thing is the US was trying that when Hamas fired rockets at their own hospital and blamed Israel,

You really shouldn't spread misinformation, it weakens any point you might have. It hasn't been proven who hit the hospital.

People have seen too much horror from both sides. Israel are supposed to be better than Hamas.

https://x.com/RamyYaacoub/status/1721597846338650596?s=20

I think misinformation is all there is to try at this point, the actions of the Israeli government have become indefensible.

And once again, Jewish Voice for Peace contains and platforms an unreasonable proportion of non-Jewish voices and antisemites.

Huh? I don't get your point. You mean the Rabbi interrupting Biden is antisemitic, or the organisation in general?

I was making the point that some of the people marching have additional aims that are antisemitic. The Met Office Twitter page contains plenty of examples.