What are the people "Marching" in London every Saturday realistically hoping to achieve?

[Flapjacker48]

It won't change UK government policy. It won't result in a ceasefire in Gaza. It won't magically resolve the situation in Palestine.

Same as all the other big marches - War in Iraq etc. Changed nothing.

Actually yes. Yes, I do think Israel should have acknowledged that the presence of a new, Western-funded country full of newcomers was bound to be offensive and threatening to its neighbours, including those it has forcibly displaced. Yes, I do think there should have been lots of invitations to chat. It had a right to defend itself and was given billions by the US to do so. But defending yourself does NOT involve attacking your neighbours and taking more and more land until you are internationally condemned.

Those pesky Jews, how dare they rock up to Israel with their entitled mindset and what remained of their mass murdered and ethnically cleansed population.

Yes 25, how dare they not be ever so grateful.

But, wait a minute! Wasn't Israel attacked in 1948 upon first declaring its independence? And America may have funded them, but it didn't get involved militarily - they were on their own. I know that was a long time ago and the land issue should have been sorted out by now, but my problem is when Palestinian supporters blame that all on Israel. They weren't given any time at all to develop diplomatic relations with their neighbours. If you want to have good relations with a newcomer state, attacking them on day 1 wasn't a good move! And here we are 90 years later ...

This has taken another disturbing turn. Are people genuinely blaming Israel for being attacked by its neighbouring countries? They weren't nice enough??

I'm not against marches per se. I believe in free speech and I object to our governments stance on this. It seems that even the general Israeli population are now beginning to question their own governments response now which makes what our great leader has said even more untenable. Of course what Hamas did was disgusting. But Hamas are not all Palestinians and the Israeli government are now killing Gazans indiscriminately. Both sides are behaving disgracefully.

However at this point it's asking for trouble to have a huge March on armistice day. It gives the EDF and bloody Farage and their ilk all the excuse they need to up anti islam rhetoric and violence. And that's the last thing anyone needs.

Same old faces, same of getting the history back to front. Sixth formers are at it again.

Israel should have acknowledged that the presence of a new, Western-funded country full of newcomers was bound to be offensive and threatening to its neighbours

How? Would a good time to acknowledge it have been that first day all five of their offended and threatened neighbours attacked en masse?

Apologies for the long quote, but it's relevant. Written in 1891 by a Russian Zionist who foresaw the problems if the arab population weren't treated well by the incomers. He was largely ignored.

“We must surely learn, from both our past and present history, how careful we must be not to provoke the anger of the native people by doing them wrong, how we should be cautious in our dealings with a foreign people among whom we returned to live, to handle these people with love and respect and, needless to say, with justice and good judgment. And what do our brothers do? Exactly the opposite! They were slaves in their Diasporas, and suddenly they find themselves with unlimited freedom, wild freedom that only a country like Turkey [the Ottoman Empire] can offer. This sudden change has planted despotic tendencies in their hearts, as always happens to former slaves [‘eved ki yimlokh — when a slave becomes king — Proverbs 30:22]. They deal with the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, trespass unjustly, beat them shamefully for no sufficient reason, and even boast about their actions. There is no one to stop the flood and put an end to this despicable and dangerous tendency.”

“We who live abroad are accustomed to believing that the Arabs are all wild desert people who, like donkeys, neither see nor understand what is happening around them. But this is a grave mistake….The Arabs, especially the urban elite, see and understand what we are doing and what we wish to do on the land, but they keep quiet and pretend not to notice anything. For now, they do not consider our actions as presenting a future danger to them. … But, if the time comes that our people’s life in Eretz Yisrael will develop to a point where we are taking their place, either slightly or significantly, the natives are not going to just step aside so easily.”- Ahad Ha’am, Russian Jewish Zionist, 1891

The cheek of it.

@piscofrisco I'm afraid you're right. I've already seen comments on here about immigrants and how Muslims behave generally which look like racist dog whistles. The likes of Farage would be only too happy to up the rhetoric. I think allowing marches has been generally the right thing to do, but the problem is the few who behave badly for their own reasons and how that will be utilised to increase racism. I do think the majority of marchers are people who either have children or simply can't bear to see cruelty to children.

You don’t think a brand new country, funded by the US, which has displaced people who have lived there for generations, should have made a huge, enormous, massive effort to get on with its neighbours?

To be fair it was the Arabs who rejected the 2 state solution (in 1948) not the Zionists. That said I’ve always thought being asked to give up half of the land you’ve been living on for generations to an influx of newcomers was actually a big ask. I know people will point out Palestine never actually existed blah blah but they were the de facto residents of the land at the time.

Anyone who pretends not to understand why the arrival of a new state in the ME, funded by the US and filled with newcomers that displace existing occupants by force would cause offence is being deliberately obtuse.

Anyone who thinks that Israel was “defending itself” by taking more and more land against international law is being goady.

And anyone who thinks that murdering and maiming thousands of children and making over a million people homeless in the space of 3 weeks is ok is an utter psychopath.

Absolutely this.

Thank you.
None so blind as those who will not see.

I didn’t say any of those things, I wasn’t talking about any of those things and you didn’t answer my question.

@25milesfromhome
What do you think of the above quote from @quiteoldad ?

@Frituvialfruit where did I say that I felt the war dead celebrated on armistice day were more important that those being killed now? As it happens, I don't. But lots of people in this country are sensitive about armistice day and feel it's something that should be respected. You or I might not hold it so dear but it's ok that they do. I just think it's incendiary to have a huge March in the capital city on that particular day. And it will fuel anti Islamist rhetoric.
Why not have the March on Saturday instead? It make the same point no matter what day it's on no?

@Coughingdodger why don’t you answer my question first?

Best post I've read.

Actually yes. Yes, I do think Israel should have acknowledged that the presence of a new, Western-funded country full of newcomers was bound to be offensive and threatening to its neighbours, including those it has forcibly displaced. Yes, I do think there should have been lots of invitations to chat. It had a right to defend itself and was given billions by the US to do so. But defending yourself does NOT involve attacking your neighbours and taking more and more land until you are internationally condemned

Again to be fair the Arab population (or a significant proportion) did not want them there. They had been low fighting for years that’s why the partition was proposed in the first place. And yes, we-don’t-want-more- immigrants was the issue.
That said Israel has been defending its own interests and goals very aggressively at times when diplomacy may of been a better bet (I.e. no bloody settlements). It’s probably too late now the lunatic fringe (Hamas) have taken hold.

It's all just a long-winded way of saying 'Israel shouldn't exist'. The fact is, Israel does exist, and was unlikely to ever just agree to it's non-existence, so the talk of Israel just needing to be more 'conciliatory' is avoiding the question.