What are the people "Marching" in London every Saturday realistically hoping to achieve?

[Flapjacker48]

It won't change UK government policy. It won't result in a ceasefire in Gaza. It won't magically resolve the situation in Palestine.

Same as all the other big marches - War in Iraq etc. Changed nothing.

@Parkingt111 I don't think you're making things up, I am just struggling to see how there can be peace unless Hamas are destroyed.
I will have a look at the Jewish Voice for Peace.

Thanks for your reply. Personally I am looking at the situation as it is now. Israel have the backing of the US to the tune of billions in aid, they have the backing of the UK, of France. The US has sent their nuclear submarine over to support them. To me looking at the present day rather than going back 700 years is more important but I understand that not everyone feels the same. Israel have all of the power, the Palestinians have none in my opinion.

Israel have chosen to use that power to be an occupying force, they have chosen to use it onto commit apartheid, they have chosen to use it to continually murder, control, terrorise and humiliate Palestinians. As someone who lives in a country that had their own occupying force in the not so distant past, someone who lives in a country whose history is scarred from the genocide of their people, I could never say that occupation is OK because I know the devastation it causes. I could never find it in my heart to excuse one set of people doing that to another. My country is neutral as a result of what we went through, we promote peace building and human rights, support disarmament and the elimination of wmd. Pretty much the opposite of Israels stance. I respect where you are coming from with your stance on this and it is natural that everyone's background will inform their views.

I resent being called antisemitic by people though, I resent people asking me 'why do you care so much about occupied people'. I wish that there was more respect for other people's views on this and more acknowledgement that we all come from unique histories. For some like you, the fact that Israel is a Jewish state is a very important thing, you find it worrying and upsetting and that's fine. For me I see a people who not unlike my own were are being starved and oppressed and the biggest powers in the world are oking it and that to me is upsetting and worrying and history repeating itself.

Disclaimer, I'm pretty ill and very zonked out on pills today so I hope that makes sense. All I am trying to say really is we all come at this from our own histories, we project our own feelings and our own worries onto the situation.

As I said I also want to see Hamas replaced.
Not only for the sake of the Israelis but also for the sake of the ordinary palestinians who just want to live ordinary lives like me and you
My disagreements is in the way Israel is trying to do this and also the fact that they refuse to take any accountability for their own actions, not only in this war but to prior events leading up to the terrible atrocities carried out on the 7th of October
In which case there will be no hope for a safe and stable future for either Israelis or the Palestinians

If we were living a few centuries ago nobody would really question why the country that was attacked would want to expand its borders and limit the ability of the group that posed a threat to carry out attacks

How do you feel about Palestine expanding its borders ?*

*sarcasm

When it comes to any other group the Left is at pains to prioritise ‘lived experience’, would never presume how to tell eg a Black person if what they’re experiencing is racism.

You’re not familiar with the line “All lives matter” then?

It makes perfect sense. Thank you.

JVP are a deeply problematic organisation, that frequently platforms antisemites and antisemitic content. A large number of their members are not Jewish at all. Non-Jewish members have frequently been caught out on social media posing as Jews.
I’m not having a go at you @Parkingt111 but JVP don’t really speak for the majority of Jews and often adhere to a fairly antisemitic agenda.

The enemy of propaganda is to weigh and ponder the rights of different people. To try to make an objective study of the truth, even though it may favour your enemy.

There hasn't been a democratic election in Palestine since 2006.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election

“The worst terrorist attack of the 21st century” accolade no longer belongs to Hamas I am afraid.

Thank you
I will look further into that and keep that in mind for future reference
Although the few things i have referenced from them on any threads has been reported on mainstream media too but I will be more diligent in the future

@25milesfromhome thanks for pointing that out. I had noticed a few things on that sight that were shall we say problematic but the name obviously sounds like decency.

Forewarned is forearmed.

@Parkingt111 yes, they’re a very visible presence and on the surface I appreciate they seem legit, particularly at a march- a Jewish voice for peace is a good thing! Just not JVP’s voice.

I agree and I appreciate you pointing that out
Generally I prefer to stick to BBC Sky and the Guardian

Fortunately, your opinion is not the opinon held by the majority of Western leaders as they would not be defending a country using terrorism to achieve their aims. They see a country that simply must eradicate a terrorist regime next door to them.

They are hoping to achieve the promotion of vile anti-semitism via our peaceful country's light touch policing and strong human rights record in allowing free speech and peaceful protests.

Oh, and throw a few fireworks at our police too, push the boundaries and then see what else they can get away with.

Yes, all those terrible children, elderly, babies, sick and disabled and pregnant women Hamas terrorists. At least they're inclusive I suppose.

I think the initial response of the Western leaders is being re-thought. Difficult decision as the US has invested billions in Israel. But the G7 is increasingly divided nevertheless.

Annoying, isn’t it, that people can’t just let Israel get on with driving out or killing all the Gazans and taking the land. Why must there be all these stupid protests.

Thanks for saying that. I'm not sure it does. I suppose I just can't get behind a country using its peoples awful history as a reason to create more awful history instead of using it try and promote peace and acceptance. I know that my people were regarded as barbarians and less than and uneducated and all of the things that Palestinians are being called. It was used as a way to justify our ill-treatment just as it is being used to against Palestinians. I actually really feel for them as people, for what they are going through and can't help but see some similarities. And I can't understand how Israelis who have through a genocide, gone through horrific things and know what that means and how that effects future generations can justify to themselves how they have treated Palestinians for decades.

Well, I think if Israel had made the first move and tried to take Palestinian land not agreed in the original settlement when the British left, I would feel very differently about that. If Israel had, from the beginning, refused to recognise the State of Palestine and set its sights on taking over all the land 'from the river to the sea', then the whole situation would be viewed very differently.

As it is, Israeli policy has constantly changed over the decades - sometimes expanding and settling land taken illegally as 'spoils of war', sometimes supporting a two-state solution, at other times voluntarily dismantling settlements and moving its citizens in an attempt to come to some kind of agreement over the land issue. The only constant is this cry of 'from the river to sea' from Palestinians and their supporters - which makes it impossible to see them as victims with no agency.

We've no way of knowing what Israeli policy towards Palestinians would have looked like had it been allowed to co-exist in peace because its not had that since its inception.

There are Jewish people on these matches.

How has the democratic state next door have treated Palestinians for decades - backed up by facts ,data, statistics, real anecdotes?

Genuinely interested in what you think and what has led you to think this way?

The statement of co-existing in peace is just useless. The Palestinians who were removed from their home still exist. They can still see their home in Israel. You can't kick someone out of their home and then 5/10/15/20 years later talk about peace. These Palestinians are still alive and should be given some sort of reimbursement for their loss if Israel really want peace. Especially those with proof and documents.

I acknowledge Israel exists now and that it should now exist but to pretend to be the peacemakers after you've destroyed thousands of people's of homes is a bit pathetic really.

For starters, Israel’s illegal settlements are contested not just by Palestinians but by international law. A quick Wikipedia search (amongst many other websites) gives you far more facts and data than could be written down here.

@Jupitersstorm you could start here for the treatment of Palestinians and then explore, Google is a wonderful tool.
https://www.ochaopt.org/poc/5-18-september-2023

Like I said earlier in this thread I'm really ill and zonked out on pills today so in no state to do your googling for you but it's all there to read if you are ever have an actual interest. You could try looking at Amnesty Internationals website or the UN or Save the children or B'tselem there is loads there to keep you busy. There are loads of Human rights organisations out there that can educate you.