Free the Hostages

[petuniasandpetals]

Ceasefire will happen if the hostages are freed. So why not shout and protest this instead?

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzT7z5aLEAp/?igshid=MTY1Ymd1eTQyMzZobw==

The israeli government said that hostages and civilians are secondary to destroying Hamas. They may not want the hostages dead but they are not a priority.

Watching the news that includes footage and interviews from inside Gaza would tell anyone what I posted.

I’m also Israeli Jewish and have met real live Palestinians. Even ones from Gaza when I lived in Israel. My parents moved there when I was a teenager, but I missed the U.K. so I came back. They have since passed on, but my brother still lives there with his family and I visit now and then.

It’s not helpful to imagine that life in the Gaza strip is exactly like life was in an ISIS controlled region for women. Especially the ‘wear the wrong thing and be stoned’ comment.

Hamas are a terrorist organisation and what they did was awful, i hope the remaining hostages are freed. Netanyahu is committing war crimes. I hope there is a cease fire soon. It’s ok to want peace in Palestine, to disagree with what the Israeli government are doing, to want the hostages freed, to be ashamed of the anti semitic things that are happening, to oppose Hamas, to hope that Jews will feel safe again, and i still believe that the majority of us want all these things. Wanting one thing does not mean you have hatred for the other. Our governments have created such divides and mistrust among all the different sides, and at the heart of it it is innocent civilians who are suffering.

Apologies. So hard to know what's what on these threads.. or should I say who's who!

This 100%

Thank you for pointing this out!

Having been married to a Palestinian and lived on the West Bank as well as in Jordan for a while I can absolutely confirm this!

No, Palestine is not exactly Sweden - but it is also a lot more liberal, yes, even where Hamas rules, than the Taliban or, say, Saudi! You will find Palestinian women - not only Christian but also Muslim ones - who do not wear hijab. Access to reproductive healthcare*, somewhat shockingly, is actually better than in large parts of the US (or ... used to be, back in the days when hospitals had electricity).

There are non-religious Palestinians. There is such a thing as a political left. Palestinian feminists exist and, no, are not routinely stoned.

As in a lot of places, on average urban* Palestinian tend to be more socially progressive with rural areas often a bit more conservative.

** refugee camps are a special case
* note that abortion is technically illegal in the Palestinian territories - it is also not extremely hard, albeit cumbersome, to access. I have not experienced this personally, but friends have. Somewhat pertinently, given the context of the discussion, you can either go private (that requires money) or to Israel (that requires a permit)

So the Israeli army have the most advanced surveillance and intelligence capabilities and systems but have to commit genocide to get to a few tunnels. This massacre of thousands of babies and children cannot ever be justified ever.

Relatively peaceful for Israelis maybe. Palestinians are continually attacked by IDF. Thousands of children have been arrested and detained in prisons for no reason. Farmers are unable to export their produce without permission from Israel because Israel destroyed their airport. In West Bank innocent People are killed and displaced because illegal settlers steal their land and homes. Palestinians have never had peace. The size of Gaza has reduced drastically over the years because Israel keeps stealing the land.

Yes there is hate on both sides but until October 7th things were relatively peaceful.

This is the bit that pro-Israeli people tend not to get at all! Things were, in fact relatively (and, yes, relatively! I am not trying to minimise things here) peaceful for Israelis.

They have NOT been for Palestinians for a long, long, long time!

When the IDF is not terrorising them, on the West Bank at least, it is settlers doing so and sometimes carrying out what can really only be called pogroms against villagers. My ex-FIL, a retired school teacher and farmer in his 70s, the kindest man you will ever meet (unless he is trying to teach you to pronounce Arabic letters, in which case he is actually pretty terrifying), is afraid to go harvest his trees because of them. They are afraid every single day!

It is only because of a) Iron Dome, b) overwhelming military superiority, and c) the infrastructure of the occupation that this may have felt relatively peaceful to Israelis in recent times. In fact, this was basically the core of the policy Netanyahu took towards Palestinians: essentially ignore them, make sure to regularly "mow the lawn" (their expression, not mine!) so that the weeds do not sprout ... normalise relations with other Arab states, and just ... keep on ignoring Palestinians.

A lot of people, including some total hawks (some of them very pro-Israel), have said for a long time that this was bound to fail in the long term. I will freely admit that, while I was one of them, I has been predicting a completely different scenario regarding the HOW - but the THAT was inevitable and has been for a long time!

Rubbishagain a few tunnels?? It is in fact a vast network of tunnels spanning the entire area of Gaza.

a) this is true**
b) it is also completely irrelevant to the question of whether or not bombing people into total oblivion is either morally justified or smart strategy

** according to Palestinian, Israeli, and third party experts! I have never personally been to Gaza, never mind seen one of those tunnels, in person - just before anyone demands I justify this statement!

I know from different sources that all sorts of places exist without having to actually see them myself. Just be grateful you've never seen the tunnels.

Surely the question should be be why aren't the hostages being released to enable a ceasefire? If the UK had a terrorist atrocity committed on the sickening level Israel suffered on the 7th, I doubt very much they'd be giving any warnings before bombing the hell out of whoever was responsible

So let’s assume your claim women are treated equally under Hamas is true (which I absolutely dispute) what would you say about the LGBT community over there? Does Hamas encourage and recognise Pride celebrations? No?

This is why I can not fathom any LGBT people supporting any pro Palestine protests or marches.

Because of the genocide I'd imagine.

Or, you know, maybe ... just maybe ... solidarity and horror at the events are ... not transactional? And maybe "wanting to live somewhere" and "wanting people who already do to stay alive, safe" are just ... you know ... not the same thing!

As a woman and an atheist, I most certainly do not want to go and live in Saudi! As a matter of fact, I was offered an assignment there a while ago - interesting project, too! - and turned it down on the grounds that a) I totally disagree with the Saudi government on a wide variety of issues that I am not even going to bother trying to list here, and b) Saudi is not a great place for people like myself to live!

None of this, absolutely NONE of this would make side with the [hypothetical] side that bombs the living daylight out of Riyadh, starves its inhabitants and then turns around to me and says "oh, but, I like atheists and feminists, so: am I not great - ooops! I may have killed a few hundred more while I was explaining this to you!"

This is just cynical. Also: it is called "pinkwashing" - instrumentalises the marginalisation of LGBT people for political propaganda. Ghastly stuff!

How did my explaining how Hamas isn’t ISIS when it comes to the roles of women get so profoundly misunderstood as a claim that women are “treated equally”?

I agree.
Hearing some protesters say they didn't know much about why there was a war and 7th Oct was astounding.