Anti Semetism IS happening

[AbsoluteYawns]

and in my opinion it's a direct result of people turning a blind eye to and excusing the horror of hamas and everything they stand for. It's allowed open season on anti Jewish hate. This has happened TODAY in France.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/11/04/woman-stabbed-lyon-france-antisemitic-attack-israel-hamas/

@hologramvirus exactly and that's why talking about them individually is important too so they are not seen as a homogeneous (sorry if my spelling is off) lump.
They all have names. And families.
Or it becomes a shani louk situation.... she has become on here 'that girl that was naked and spat at'. She has a name.
Just putting the human back: why wouldn't we March for them?

You know the posters and banners of hostages are not about this

I do?

Which appears to be precisely why their presence is so anathema at the marches

As you said things are quite polarised. I very much doubt* banners *urging people to remember the people of Gaza would be welcome at the march against antisemitism that is planned.

Excellent post, completely agree with you.

Or it becomes a shani louk situation.... she has become on here 'that girl that was naked and spat at'. She has a name.
Just putting the human back: why wouldn't we March for them?

I see what you’re saying. I don’t think it’s wrong. The victims of October 7 should be remembered.
But people feel they have to pick a side. Someone on here compared us (people on this board that it) to football hooligans supporters and I must be honest, I can sort of see it.

So what did you think the posters and banners of hostages were about?

Yes things have become polarized. And I place responsibility for that quite firmly on the appalling and extraordinary response of so many on the pro-Palestinian side, including the way the marches have been conducted as I’ve previously outlined.

The conscious and unconscious anti-Semitism has been blatant. I never expected to see anything like it in the UK. It has been polarizing and it’s the understatement of the century to call that unfortunate.

So what did you think the posters and banners of hostages were about?

You said they were to keep the hostages in mind

My point was that the Pro Palestinian marches were actually aimed at the UK governments unequivocal support of Israel (see the nuance there)and so would not have had free the hostages banners because the UK (by which I mean the government) we’re already committed to this.
No reason why they shouldn’t be any though (imo)

I think it’s also worth baring in mind that just as you feel the pro Palestinian protests are evidence that Israeli victims don’t matter some people may feel focus on them implies that Gaza victims doesn’t matter. It’s like people can’t imagine you can feel empathy for both at the same time.

I’m not sure if it’s naivety or dishonesty that causes you to argue that this is the reason why anyone with ‘being the hostages home’ banners at the marches would have been so unwelcome.

I’m not sure if it’s naivety or dishonesty that causes you to argue that this is the reason why anyone with ‘being the hostages home’ banners at the marches would have been so unwelcome

Ah sorry I thought you were speaking hypothetically. I didn’t realise there actually were such banners at the protests. I was going by what you said in an earlier post about what you would like to see from the marches.

I wasn’t trying to say why the banners would be unwelcome rather why there were none there.

When you can evidence equivalent responses to Palestinian victims as have been shown by pro-Palestinians to Israeli victims, then you will be at the start of making a case with merit.

But there is no equivalence is there? There have not been large scale marches across the world for Israeli victims. Which is the case you are trying to make us not very honest.

When you can evidence equivalent responses to Palestinian victims as have been shown by pro-Palestinians to Israeli victims, then you will be at the start of making a case with merit.

But there is no equivalence is there? There have not been large scale marches across the world for Israeli victims. Which is the case you are trying to make us not very honest

Palestinians are seen as the underdogs, that tends to get you more sympathy (rightly or wrongly)

But it’s prejudiced bias that causes this. It’s the appalling, and blatantly false, ideology that says Israelis can’t be victims as ‘the oppressor can’t be oppressed’.

Everyone who has not brainwashed themselves can see that the unarmed men, women, children and babies against a mob of heavily armed, violent, murderous,cruel thugs, were very much the under dogs.

What you are minimizing here is the dehumanization and demonization of Israeli Jews to such an extreme extent that a bloodthirsty racist massacre against them cannot be called out as such. Because the bloodthirsty racist murderers were the underdogs and the mother and baby tied together and burnt alive were the oppressors.

This is from an article by Robert Crampton in the Times today. He is talking about watching the video of unedited compilation of the attacks:

The two most common words spoken by Hamas that day seem to have been, when translated, “God” and “dog”. Two short words, one the reverse of the other, summing up their feelings and their motivation, and perhaps suggesting how so many people can lose their minds and their humanity to the extent of being able to do what they did. God — their God — is great. Jews are not people, but dogs

I don’t think I heard the word “Palestine” spoken once. I didn’t hear the word “Israeli” either. Beside God and dog, the next most frequent word was “Jew”. Sir Mick Davis, the businessman and former Tory party treasurer who helped to introduce the film, made the point that “what you are about to see had nothing to do with the legitimate aspirations of the Palestinian people and everything to do with the desire to murder Jews”. He was spot-on. “Hamas was proud of what it did and has said it would do it again,” he added. “The people who march for Palestine in London and elsewhere need to be very careful about what banner they march under.” He’s right about that too

Sorry to go on about it, but that statement above from you really nails what makes me so angry. It’s the tacit admission there of the deeply racist underpinning of the pro-Palestinian side which is so extreme, that even after the horror of October 7th they can’t bring themselves to admit Israelis as victims of a racist massacre.

It’s just disgusting.

@hologramvirus that's just so awful.

Sorry to go on about it, but that statement above from you really nails what makes me so angry. It’s the tacit admission there of the deeply racist underpinning of the pro-Palestinian side which is so extreme, that even after the horror of October 7th they can’t bring themselves to admit Israelis as victims of a racist massacre.
**
It’s just disgusting

Er..no
I never said anything about race.

What you are minimizing here is the dehumanization and demonization of Israeli Jews to such an extreme extent that a bloodthirsty racist massacre against them cannot be called out as such.

I think it can* *but people make the distinction between Hamas (who are to blame for all of this) and the ordinary people in Gaza.

The terrorists did. They were very clear they were looking for Jews to kill. This was a racist massacre. The fact that those on the pro-Palestinian marches are NOT talking about race in this context, are NOT acknowledging it as a racist massacre, is exactly the problem I am talking about.

That omission IS racist

What do you mean by "you have the loudest voices"?

My community? What community is that then? I’m not Jewish. Speaks volumes that you think I must be though. Do you think Jews just look out for themselves? Because that is an ancient anti-Semitic trope.

I have the loudest voice? Sorry, what is this? An anti-Semitic trope about Jews being a powerful and influential cabal?

The rest of your post wanting ‘context’ to justify Hamas utter barbarity but no ‘context’ for Israel has been well covered elsewhere.

I think that is just blatant anti-semitism. She thinks I’m a Jew who’s part of a powerful Jew cabal. Maybe I control the media or something.

@hologramvirus what are you talking about I did not tag you in a post. My post was for the OP not you.

The terrorists did. They were very clear they were looking for Jews to kill. This was a racist massacre. The fact that those on the pro-Palestinian marches are NOT talking about race in this context, are NOT acknowledging it as a racist massacre, is exactly the problem I am talking about.

That omission IS racist

When I said Palestinian's are seen as the underdogs I meant that they have no statehood, are refugees, live in ghettos, settlements built on their land, governed by terrorists etc.
This is a separate from the issue of Hamas being racist towards Jewish people, which they obviously are.

@Humdingerydoo Don't cherry pick a post to twist things into anti semitism. The Jewish community have the loudest voices in this conflict on MN, these threads even the ones expressing sympathy for Palestinians have been derailed. What about the other points in my post, why ignore how Netanyahu's racist twisted rhetoric is never called out?