Anti Semetism IS happening

[AbsoluteYawns]

and in my opinion it's a direct result of people turning a blind eye to and excusing the horror of hamas and everything they stand for. It's allowed open season on anti Jewish hate. This has happened TODAY in France.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/11/04/woman-stabbed-lyon-france-antisemitic-attack-israel-hamas/

@LittleMsTellTheTruth

You suggested holocaust survivors used the holocaust as a 'how to' guide. Grossly offensive and anti semitic. The old man in the interview has done no such thing. To suggest Jewish people took what occurred in the holocaust and did the same is grossly offensive and inaccurate.

You are displaying the hatred of which he spoke and sees. He lives in the UK.

@Pinkdressinggownbelt the Israeli ambassador to the UK makes my blood boil too, she is a self righteous hypocrite. One who believes there should be no palestine at all, only Israel.
But criticism for her and the government for their actions in this war is not anti-semitic

But it is important to distinguish between the government and its people.
Also all Jewish people are not one group with the same thoughts. I think when looking at the war with Israel and Palestine it is important not to conflate it as a war with Jewish people and Muslims

Indeed. Criticism of government is different.
It's when people like the above poster suggest that 'they' use the holocaust as a 'how to' guide. Poster shows little understanding of the holocaust and what occurred to suggest that.

If you can look at the brutal and racist torture, rape and murder of children, women and men on October 7th and your reaction is to turn your face away from those victims so totally that you immediately, even when the Jewish community is reeling and traumatized, go on a march for another group of people, then you have so dehumanized the Jewish people that you think they are not deserving of caring or concern no matter what brutality befalls them. Then yes, you have, even if unconsciously, absorbed an anti-Semitic worldview

So basically what you’re saying is that no-one should care what happens to the Palestinians. And if you do? Antisemitic.

As far as I know it was not 'bestowed' by the UK, the iPlayer series on 50 years of war was very informative.

I think everyone is (should be) horrified by the events of October 7 but it doesn’t lessen the horrors experienced by the Palestinians. An Israeli life isn’t worth more than a Palestinian and vice versa.

"If you can look at the brutal and racist torture, rape and murder of children, women and men on October 7th and your reaction is to turn your face away from those victims so totally that you immediately, even when the Jewish community is reeling and traumatized, go on a march for another group of people, then you have so dehumanized the Jewish people that you think they are not deserving of caring or concern no matter what brutality befalls them. Then yes, you have, even if unconsciously, absorbed an anti-Semitic world"

The half wits going on the pro Palestine marches a few days after the appalling terrorist attacks on Israel were showing us exactly who they are.

So seeing the genocide of a people and marching against their murder and forced expulsion from a land means you're full of hate? Is having sympathy and wanting equal rights for Palestinians (now and for the past 75 years) equal to hating another? It doesn't make sense.
You can be rightfully angry about anti semitism and horrified about Oct 7th while also heartbroken at what's happening to Palestine. You don't have to be one or the other. It's not a football game.

This

I didn't mention hate. I think for many is a cold dehumanisation of Jewish people rather than active hate.

But yes, if you can have such disregard for those victims that your instant reaction is not a vigil for those victims, or a vigil for the Israeli victims and Palestinian people, but instead to march alongside those who support those attacks, alongside those who talked about ' context' and 'understanding' for the perpetrators of such attacks, without caring what message that marching sends to rawly traumatised Jewish and Israeli people, then yes, you have dehumanised the Israelis and Jewish people.

And actually, the more I have seen of the marches and marchers, the more partisan and polarising I see them as. For all those saying, 'but we just want peace and we care for both sides' . What would have happened to someone attending one of those marches with a 'Bring home the hostages banner?' And how many of those on the Palestinian marches will turn up for Saturday's march against anti-semitism? Do you think we will see the same demographic, same volumes, same people marching? Because if we do, I will concede you were right about the motives of the Palestinian marchers and offer my apologies. And if we don't, I hope you will have to good grace to concede that people like me who were sceptical about the motives of so many of the Palestinian marchers were right.

Agree with this

Good post

I can have sympathy for Jewish people but also recognise they have a lot of support from international community - the billions in aid to Israel, the unequivocal backing from our government and MPs. But there is no one to speak for Palestinians - and yes, not arab countries either, so I'm marching in solidarity to show that I care. Not just now, but every time there is an attack on Palestine - west bank villages, Al Aqsa worshipper attacked every single Ramadan while praying, I try to speak up. And yes, I also attended vigils for Jewish victims and I attend holocaust memorial day at Westminster as part of my interfaith role, and I've sat with Rabbi Ephraim and had discussions. Have you ever spoken up about the settler attacks or mosque attacks or indiscriminate murders in Palestine over the last years? If yes, great, if no, you cannot tell me i am partisan in my empathy.

"I can have sympathy for Jewish people but also recognise they have a lot of support from international community - the billions in aid to Israel, the unequivocal backing from our government and MPs"

Not sure Jewish people do have a lot of support from the international community... I think you mean Israel.

As this thread was originally about anti-Semitism I just wanted to clarify the wording. I don't think @Chaitales meant anything bad by it, I just felt the need to clarify it for others who may be reading. I'm not trying nit-pick, I promise. I just know that I as a Jew in the UK definitely haven't been receiving billions in aid 🤪

And to be clear, Palestine has also received billions in aid. They have a lot of very vocal support.

What you don't get the cheque every month from the international community like the rest of us

I would ring them up if I was you

@Chaitales billions of aid doesn't just go to Israel does it? How much does Gaza get? Thats misappropriated? Huge amounts.

And they are the only group that gets its own United Nations agency specifically for them as far as I know (happy to stand corrected) however corrupt it is.

There is a reason the Arab countries don't step up. Because they have done before and got bitten.

@hologramvirus well said.

@Parker231 I agree a life is worth a life so I don't understand why you would go on another thread and argue about proportionality and more prisoners being released for the Israeli hostages?

That makes no sense to me.

@Pinkdressinggownbelt 'bestowed' you think there were no Jews there before the Balfour agreement?

Apologies, yes I meant Israel

@Stomacharmeleon - billions of dollars of military funding from America - this is well documented.

@Chaitales that's not what you said though.

@Trulywonderful I have missed my cheque too.

The Palestinians are hostages not prisoners - they haven’t been to court, tried and proven guilty. The numbers of Palestinians held are much higher than the Israeli being held so makes sense to me to release on an apportionment basis.

Agree - are we just glossing over the fact that Israel has 150 hostages to return? Are we not questioning why they have hostages in the first place and why there is no uproar over this?

Plus, the incredible violence against children - are we glossing over this because Palestinian lives value much, much less than Israeili?

https://www.savethechildren.net/news/stripped-beaten-and-blindfolded-new-research-reveals-ongoing-violence-and-abuse-palestinian#

Because they aren't 'hostages' are they? Every article I read online and every reference to this situation says it as it is....
They are prisoners.
And you are talking about lives not a maths equation. You want all to value life you treat people equally.

@Chaitales I thought they were from a list of 300 so are only some hostages and some prisoners?

Prisoners imply there has been a crime committed or intended. It is again well documented that Israels judiciary has the right to detain and arrest Palestinian citizens without the same judicial process as Israeili, hold in solitary confinement or detention and torture. We can argue hostages or prisoners, but the reality is these are mostly without crime and are unlawfully and immorally detained.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/09/defending-the-rule-of-law-enforcing-apartheid-the-double-life-of-israels-judiciary/#:~:text=Israel's%20Supreme%20Court%20has%20upheld,years%20without%20charge%20or%20trial.

On aside note, did you know Israel has one of the world's largest skin banks, and much of the skin is Palestinian? Is there a legal process for collecting this?

@Chaitales If yes, great, if no, you cannot tell me i am partisan in my empathy

I am not talking about you personally. I don't know you. My point is about the marchers generally.

(Reading back on my post I see I said 'you' but I meant that as in the former use of the word 'one', rather than you personally).

I am confused as to why you would post about a skin bank and how it's collected on a thread about anti semitism? I wonder what you are implying?

How would I know?

Crack on with trying to derail though....@Chaitales