gaza tunnel system

[Noicant]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/28/us/politics/gazas-tunnels-israel-ground-war.html

I thought this was an interesting article about Gaza’s systems of tunnels which would help explain what the IDF are trying to get at.

Few facts missing here

No bombing of Israel by Hamas - no airforce/no planes/no airport even

Also Israel has lots of safe rooms and bomb shelters in public and private buildings to keep it citizens safe from missile attack

Your 'risk of annihilation' is much overstated -it's all bad enough without exaggerating

And no bombing from any direction or from any other parties - missiles yes but again no planes

No bombs, no planes, no airport- factually correct. From 2006-2021 there were nearly 17,000 missiles fired into Israel from Gaza. (There are very comprehensive lists on Wikipedia, you can count them.)Thousands more have been fired at Israel in the last 2 years, many hundreds just in the last 3 weeks, but less verified number sources so far. Not to mention missiles from Lebanon/Hezbollah, Syria and Yemen/Houthi. At least 200,000 Israelis currently displaced/evacuated from towns and villages near the border with Gaza. Iran funds Hamas $100 million a year to develop military capabilities, weapons and missile technology. I read on the BBC today that Hamas soldiers destroyed a supposedly impregnable armoured Israeli vehicle and the soldiers inside it with a Russian anti tank missile. Are Hamas capable of annihilation? I don’t think they lack the equipment or the will.

A senior Hamas official based in Lebanon gave details of the group’s weapons manufacturing in an edited interview with Russia Today’s Arabic-news channel RT Arabic published on their website on Sunday.
“We have local factories for everything, for rockets with ranges of 250 km, for 160 km, 80km, and 10 km. We have factories for mortars and their shells. … We have factories for Kalashnikovs (rifles) and their bullets. We’re manufacturing the bullets with permission from the Russians. We’re building it in Gaza,” Ali Baraka, head of Hamas National Relations Abroad, told the outlet.
But former US officials say there is little question the massive stockpile of weapons used in Saturday’s attack was acquired and assembled with help from Iran.”

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/13/middleeast/hamas-weapons-invs/index.html

Of course Israel is at risk of annhilation. They are constantly being fired at & Iran, Hamas Hezbollah have all stated tbeir intention to destroy Israel. Thats why they built the iron dome system. Thet have bomb shelters because they care about protecting theit citizens. The extensive tunnel system in gaza is there to proyect hamas and military persinnel/supplies/capability. They could have built bomb shelters for their population but choose not to. Though, not murdering 1400 Israelis would also prevented the latest Israeli attack.

Yes that's all true and as I said there is no need for exaggeration because it's bad enough already

https://x.com/HenMazzig/status/1719703605366689800?s=20

This is why I can't support a ceasefire.

Yes it's awful but falls well short of annihilation unless you are using a different definition of the word

There's no need to exaggerate it's bad enough without doing that

The psychological damage on the other hand is huge

Just got me thinking about how transformational it would have been for all the ingenuity, engineering, tech development and commitment to a cause currently on display from on all sides to have been applied to improvement and development rather than destruction. But that’s warmongering leaders/oppressive governments/terrorists/delete as applicable for you.

www.instagram.com/reel/CzG4Ctetxhq/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Oh even Hamas call it an annihilation....

Thought we don't believe a word that comes out of Hamas mouths - why give them credit for this nonsense?

Yes I understand you, I just don’t agree with you that considering the risk of annihilation is an exaggeration.

No, it's generally accepted that we believe their reports about the war, but not their stated aims and intentions.

Neat

He is a well known spokesman who recently walked off during a bbc interview.

I don't know why you are intending to belittle Israel. I thought one dead body was one dead body too much?

Hamas' whole reason for being is get rid of the Jews. That's not just what he said but is also widely spoken about.

Israel uses its funds to protect its people not profiteer from them. They have the iron dome and the bomb shelters precisely for this reason. It's doing Hamas a huge disservice to downplay their capabilities and those of hezbolloh and those who subsidise them.

This is what I thought too, the sheer ingenuity and dogged determination between Palestinians and Israelis, the area could be kicking everyone elses arses in multiple areas of progress.

Not belittling anyone - the fear of annihilation must be crippling for Israeli citizens - never feeling safe, missile attacks curtailing and disrupting normal everyday life and I can see how that can destroy a society

And the awful intelligence failure when people thought they were pretty safe will be hard to get over

@Noicant when I was watching channel 4 news the other evening Matt Frei (I think) said how alike the Palestinians and the Israelis are. The gentleman being interviewed (he was Palestinian) agreed.
Common ground has to be found for this to work and compromise both sides. I stand by ridding that area of Hamas being the best way to achieve it though.

I hope it's looked into after this abates and people who are responsible are help too account.

I hope so too, but there are so many bad faith actors, corrupt, self interested agencies and actual lunatics involved in this I don’t know how it can be unravelled.

Everyone really needs to see this, and listen. He is telling it like it is - why not believe him?

I believe that.

Not sure why people wouldn’t, so I agree with you,

Media are picking up what he said now:

Hamas leader dismisses Gaza civilian deaths as 'a necessary price in blood' and boasts that the terror group has 'demonstrated that Israel is beatable… we are changing the Middle East'

Ghazi Hamad, deputy foreign minister for Hamas boasted their slaughter of 1,400 Israelis inside their homes or as they fled a festival 'destroyed the myth of Israel as a military superpower'.

Lack of bombs aside ( I'm not a weapons specialist) , my point was simply that if the iron dome wasn't there then Isreal probably wouldn't be there either.

Yes, we need to stand strong with Israel in the UK and US as our own democratic rights and freedoms will otherwise be at risk. Hamas wants Israel removed. it does not want peace and democracy. Its aims are clear.

You are right. I don't know what they are using now but it sounds from reports like similar to 2021. These are the missiles Hamas had in 2021: