Two state solution

[Babybearissleeping]

Can someone please explain to me why palastinians are against a two state solution? Or is it just Hamas that don't want this?

I know it's not a simple solution to implement but seems the only solution to me.

I find some of the comments on here very misleading. Palestinians have long called for a 2 state solutions based on 1967 borders. The continuation of colonisation on a huge scale has made that impossible. There are now an estimated 450,000 illegal settlers in the West Bank, with an average of 3 settler attacks per DAY before this war. It is now much more. The presence of settlers with their own separate roads and facilities that Palestinians are not allowed to cross, has turned Palestinian towns and villages into isolated islets with checkpoints everywhere. Secondly, I don’t agree that there is widespread antisemitism in the Middle East/ North Africa region. That’s just not my experience being born in a Sephardi Jewish family. My family reported antisemitism from the European authorities, but they have fond memories of their Muslim friends and neighbours. My grandfather refused ties to Israel and left to live in an European country. Not because of supposed antisemitism from Muslim communities, but because the Alliance Israelite pushed local Jews to study in French schools to “civilise” them, which means that when North African countries won their independence, many Jews didn’t speak the local language anymore. In fact, my family members couldn’t even communicate with their own grandparents because they had spoken Arabic, and they spoke only French. I travelled to several of these countries and was very open about being fork a Sephardi family. People excitedly told me stories about local Jewish families and showed me old Jewish schools, synagogues and the Jewish cemetery, which has a Muslim guardian. I really despite the type of narrative that tries to pit Muslims and Jews. I will not forget that the only reason my family were not sent to extermination camps is because their country didn’t send them, even though they were expelled from their European schools for being Jews. My family always has had minimal ties to Israel and I would challenge the need for a Jewish-only state on a land that has always been very multicultural and multi faith in nature.

@itto thanks for sharing this. I find your story fascinating and completely believable.
There is so much history of muslims and jews living side by side peacefully.

I am only guessing which country you refer to but my guess is Egypt or Algeria

That was very interesting to read and thank you for sharing. Whilst the focus right now is on Gaza alot of people on here just can't grasp (or refuse to do so) on how terrible the situation is for many palestinians in the occupied West bank

Can someone please explain to me why palastinians are against a two state solution? Or is it just Hamas that don't want this?

Actually a lot are in favour of it (according to the article linked below)
It’s not a realistic option as things stand now though

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/israel/what-palestinians-really-think-hamas

Palestinians aren’t against it. Israel is. It has routinely ignored the sanctiry of Palestinian borders as defined by the UN (Jerusalem is in Palestine) and refused to recognise Palestine as a country.

The Palestinians have said they won't accept any two state solutions. They want all hence "from the river to the sea"

The Palestinians have said they won't accept any two state solutions. They want all hence "from the river to the sea

I think they just want the 1967 borders

Well that was their position the last time there were peace talks.

Maybe the 3000 murdered kids meant they changed the line on this lately.

Correct. @Bells3032 is telling lies like many others on this issue.

I mean is it not bad enough that Israel constantly harasses Palestinians, controls their movements, water, power, steal their houses, their farms and livelihoods, imprisons them without trial, shoots them in the street and lately has been committing genocide against them but you still have to add insult to injury by blaming them for not wanting two states which is a blatant lie.

Israel is a terror state. Time you all came to terms with that and stopped blaming civilians.

No neither actually. My own family is from Tunisia but I’m a scholar with more knowledge of Morocco. There are some Mizrahi/ Sephardi history pages on instagram with many interviews and it’s fascinating. Iraq in particular had a very vibrant Jewish community, and it’s first finance minister was Jewish. The Moroccan monarchy had a special advisor to the king, André Azoulay, for decades. I think it’s very important to hear these stories of Jewishness in the Muslim and Arab world as they tend to be forgotten in favour of a white Ashkenazi narrative. It’s much more complex than what has been described. And I want to reiterate criticism of Israel and Zionism is not antisemitic. Questioning the prevalent narrative is not antisemitic. There are plenty of high profile Jews who openly support the right of Palestinians to self-determination and demand an end to war, apartheid and colonisation. I have just heard Gabor Maté talk about it in a very humane, measured way a few days ago. Actually I find it antisemitic to reduce Judaism and Jewish identity to blind devotion to Israel as a Jewish-only state.

I am not telling lies. you are putting your own thoughts on the Palestinian people. they have said time and time again that they won't accept a two state solution.. Hamas' own charter calls for the entire anilahtion of Israel and that will be the only acceptable outcome to them. Just because that's what YOU think they want does not mean that's what they actually want.

The issue is that there are many people on here who themselves have said they decided to pick a side when the war started but know very little about the situation prior to the war.
I have encountered many Jewish pro Israelis who understand and empathise with the Palestinians in the occupied West bank compared to many (not all) non Jewish posters who seem to only post for brownie points
And I know the same can be said on the other side too

Please read up a little on it
You will find that there has been occasions where the disagreement has been on the borders
From both sides
Also as I'm sure you are aware that Hamas is not the governing body of the occupied West bank

Consider getting information on this issue that isn't Israeli propaganda.

Consider getting information that isn't Palestinian propaganda

I'm well aware they don't but most people in the west bank don't either:

As of 2021, most Palestinians are against the two-state solution. In 2021, a poll by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research revealed that 39% of Palestinians accept a two-state solution, while 59% said they rejected it

A survey taken before the outbreak of fighting in 2014 by the Washington Institute for Near East Policy (WINEP) found that 60 percent of Palestinians say the goal of their national movement should be "to work toward reclaiming all of historic Palestine from the river to the sea" compared to just 27 percent who endorse the idea that they should work "to end the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza and achieve a two-state solution."

So tell me again about how the majority of palastians want a two state solution because all the evidence points to that not being the case. If you do have evidence that they do want this then I am more than happy to read it and be proven wrong.

Even in the UK the main slogan for pro palastine groups is "from the river to the sea" they are not calling for a two state solution they are calling for the total anilahtion of Israel.

And for the record I support the idea of two state solution but I think there is too much hatred of both sides to achieve that now and I honestly don't know what the solution to this could be.

@Bells3032 you have said the Palestinians have said no time and time again to which I was pointing out that it is simply not true
Over the last few years the situation in Israel and palestine has further deteriorated with a growing number on both sides no longer wanting a two state solution which is quite unfortunate
Maybe after this war is over those in power can come to a agreement and realise that this may be the only chance for peace in the region

We all pray for that resolution. And I hope a Two state solution does come about but I doubt they'll get it under either of these governments. Too much bad blood has passed. There is too much hatred built. Regardless of which side you take I think we can all mourn for the innocent caught up in this and pray for a speedy resolution

Yes I agree not under the current government's.
But it doesn't seem likely that Hamas will remain and its quite obvious that Netanyahus days in power are numbered so who knows
It may still happen at some point

Maybe the 3000 murdered kids meant they changed the line on this lately.

Hamas carried out the 7 October atrocity before that, and that was a pretty clear message on how they felt about a two-state solution.

So tell me again about how the majority of palastians want a two state solution because all the evidence points to that not being the case. If you do have evidence that they do want this then I am more than happy to read it and be proven wrong.

Gonna post this again
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/israel/what-palestinians-really-think-hamas

TLDR:
“By and large, Gazans do not share Hamas’s goal of eliminating the state of Israel. When presented with three possible solutions to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (as well as an option to choose “other”), the majority of survey respondents (54 percent) favored the two-state solution outlined in the 1993 Oslo accords. In this scenario, the state of Palestine would sit alongside the state of Israel, their borders based on the de facto boundary that existed before the 1967 Six-Day War. The level of support for this resolution has not changed much since 2021; in that survey, 58 percent of respondents in Gaza selected the two-state solution.”

Also this - not about the two state solution specifically though.

https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/polls-show-majority-gazans-were-against-breaking-ceasefire-hamas-and-hezbollah

And those examples have worked out so well, haven't they?