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Conflict in the Middle East

Why aren't Egypt more helpful?

51 replies

Jelllytot · 22/10/2023 01:25

Given there are two exits out of Gaza, one into Israel and one into Egypt, why isn't Egypt more helpful to Gazans?

For example, why didn't they just let the aid in? The trucks were just sat at the border for days.
Or also, why don't they just allow them to escape/exit via their border? I read it's quite complex leaving via the Rafah border ie. One would have to apply weeks ahead and pay a substantial amount to use that crossing. Why do they make it so hard to leave? Is there an agreement between Egypt and Israel to keep Gazans within the borders?

OP posts:
Efacsen · 22/10/2023 07:15

Upwardtrajectory · 22/10/2023 06:59

Also, Israel had suggested letting Gazian civilians go to Sinai whilst Israel goes into Gaza and clears it of Hamas (I.e. destroys it). Then they’d let the Gazians go back. Realistically, they’d never get back, Israel would end up with Gaza and Egypt would end up with millions of refugees permanently. Rather understandably , Egypt said no to that idea.
The border won’t open whilst there’s so much international negotiation going on.

Don't know if it was in response to the temporary trip into the Sinai but someone in Egypt counter-suggested that Israel move the inhabitants of Gaza temporarily into the Negev desert out of harms way

Not what you'd call serious stuff is it

You know the border was open yesterday and a small amount of aid was delivered? Not clear what happened to the 500+ foreign passport holders who had been waiting at the border since Monday - did they manage to leave?

TomeTome · 22/10/2023 08:22

Jelllytot · 22/10/2023 02:08

Ahh I see. That all makes sense.

I want to say couldn't they just let the mums and children and babies out.. but I appreciate how they would also have dads and grandpas etc (in a completely sexist assumption that all of Hamas are men, but just for argument sake).

Thanks everyone for the responses.

I feel like people who are pro-palestine are forgetting Egypt could play a role in helping Palestine.

Or Isreal could stop bombing Palestine and let aid in?

iap · 22/10/2023 08:26

It could. But it would then lose any hope of getting the hostages - including small children - back and it would be giving Hamas ample space and time to re-weaponise and commit the same atrocities again.

If you have a terrorist organisation running a country, embedded in its population, committed to your wholesale destruction and on your border, it’s not clear to me what a good option is. Maybe there were better options a few decades ago but no one has a time machine.

PeanutAndBanana · 22/10/2023 08:28

I don't know why important questions raised politely and in good faith are met with such hostility. I consider myself reasonably well informed about world affairs but I have learned things from the answers here. I didn't - for example - appreciate that Jordan hasn't given Palestinians full citizenship. Thank you to everyone who replied to the OP.

Dotcheck · 22/10/2023 08:30

Hermittrismegistus · 22/10/2023 01:33

I have. Hence knowing about how to cross the border etc and about the aid

Well you should know then that it wasn't Egypt that was blocking the aid. Ffs.

No need

Everyone’s education has to being somewhere.

Firebug007 · 22/10/2023 08:31

It was Israel blocking the aid not Egypt.

No1MumPendant · 22/10/2023 08:32

They don’t want to give refuge to Hamas. They’ve had enough shit to deal with over the last few years with terrorists and Jihadis.

NotSuchASmugMarried · 22/10/2023 08:37

Because nobody wants a million refugees entering their country.

TomeTome · 22/10/2023 08:38

iap · 22/10/2023 08:26

It could. But it would then lose any hope of getting the hostages - including small children - back and it would be giving Hamas ample space and time to re-weaponise and commit the same atrocities again.

If you have a terrorist organisation running a country, embedded in its population, committed to your wholesale destruction and on your border, it’s not clear to me what a good option is. Maybe there were better options a few decades ago but no one has a time machine.

Closing all means of escape, turning off water, electricity and blocking food and medical supplies, and then bombing the crap out of the trapped civilian population should never have been an option and certainly wasn’t a “good option”.

Lecc · 22/10/2023 08:55

Hermittrismegistus · 22/10/2023 01:28

You must be taking the piss?

Having an inquiring mind and asking questions is definitely a sign of intelligence!
Throwing around pointless insults on the other hand...

Usou · 22/10/2023 10:23

You're judging them by your own standards - why should they let them in?

You're making the mistake of thinking that the concept of charity for example, is a given. It is not. Witness the lethargy exhibited by multiple middle eastern nations over the years in response to this and other crises.

The ethnocentric views of many westerners can be very wearying. Most have little apparent grasp of the issues at play or the actual history of the wider area (pre 1948). This is an existential struggle for Israelis - against people who want to exterminate them.

Reallifelurker · 22/10/2023 10:36

Egypt doesn’t want a large number of refugees but it also doesn’t want the Palestinian's driven from Gaza. You know there’s no way Israel will just let them back in.
Also Egypt does not want anything to do with Hamas as they will just cause trouble. I think that’s the main reason they blocked off their own border with Gaza in the first place.
As for aid - Israel would need to co-operate with the process (so those delivering it can be sure that Israel will not accidentally bomb them) and they aren’t.

Reallifelurker · 22/10/2023 10:37

Blimey Hermittrismegistus, you wake up on the wrong side of bed or something?

Efacsen · 22/10/2023 10:44

Usou · 22/10/2023 10:23

You're judging them by your own standards - why should they let them in?

You're making the mistake of thinking that the concept of charity for example, is a given. It is not. Witness the lethargy exhibited by multiple middle eastern nations over the years in response to this and other crises.

The ethnocentric views of many westerners can be very wearying. Most have little apparent grasp of the issues at play or the actual history of the wider area (pre 1948). This is an existential struggle for Israelis - against people who want to exterminate them.

Just FYI - giving to charity is one of the central tenets of Islam

Validus · 22/10/2023 10:45

In Addition to the many reasons above - Egypt has enough trouble keeping its own citizens fed. It has to heavily subsidise grain prices to avoid social upheaval. Gazan would be more mouths to feed at a time when food inflation is already a huge problem.

It’s a well trodden path that failure to feed a population leads to an uprising.

Validus · 22/10/2023 10:48

@Efacsen they may also take the view they charity begins at home. Religion does not negate state borders, historical grievances or tribal differences.

Usou · 22/10/2023 10:49

Apparently.

Jelllytot · 22/10/2023 10:50

This is only my opinion but I was basically wondering about it all because, yes, Israel is doing something atrocious, but given Egypt is the gatekeeper of the border I'd have thought more people might say something about them (like they are with Israel, but maybe to a lesser extent).

OP posts:
Reallifelurker · 22/10/2023 10:54

This is only my opinion but I was basically wondering about it all because, yes, Israel is doing something atrocious, but given Egypt is the gatekeeper of the border I'd have thought more people might say something about them (like they are with Israel, but maybe to a lesser extent).

I think their hands are tied in some ways. Certainly the concern about Hamas getting a foothold is valid even if the other reasons are debatable.

Pollyputhekettleon · 22/10/2023 10:57

You've been told some of the reasons. But one of the main ones is that Egypt, and Jordan, and no doubt the other Arab states, believe Israel wants the Gazans out to take that territory. They believe if they let the Gazans out Israel will stop them ever going back. Then Israel would have won, in their view.

They'd also end up like Lebanon, with Hamas or Hezbollah or whoever the latest group would be attacking Israel now from within Egyptian borders, with the Egyptian government being held responsible for that.

Harella · 23/10/2023 11:05

Hamas are an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood.

The Muslim Brotherhood is banned in Egypt, and their former President from that party is currently languishing in jail.

The Egyptian government does not want massive Gazan refugee camps in the Sinai as these would inevitably be controlled by Hamas, allowing them to establish a foothold in the region. Egypt sees this as a massive security threat to the stability of their regime.

They also fear that if they accept 2 million refugees from Gaza, Israel, having reoccupied the Gaza Strip, won’t allow them to return, so they’ll be stuck with them permanently - Egypt also sees this prospect as something that would be massively destabilising to their security.

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 23/10/2023 11:12

The one thing not mentioned yet is that there are 300000 refugees already in Egypt, mostly from Syria.
So that is a big demand on infrastructure.

RafaistheKingofClay · 23/10/2023 11:20

TomeTome · 22/10/2023 08:38

Closing all means of escape, turning off water, electricity and blocking food and medical supplies, and then bombing the crap out of the trapped civilian population should never have been an option and certainly wasn’t a “good option”.

It’s certainly an option that might conflict with their stated aim of getting their hostages back.

LookingUp2021 · 16/02/2024 22:27

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Comedycook · 17/02/2024 18:14

One thing I heard is that Egyptians don't want attacks to Israel to be made on their soil...no idea how true or not that is.