Hostages

[TakeMe2Insanity]

This is running on Al Jazeera and others - apparently Israel refused to take back two hostages.

https://english.alarabiya.net/amp/News/middle-east/2023/10/21/Hamas-says-intended-to-release-two-hostages-but-Israel-refused-to-receive-them

So still Palestinians are being prevented from movement, even during a ceasefire.
Thats an absolute disgrace.
What would happen if they tried to I wonder.
Does the IDF have the power to arrest, even in a ceasefire.

Interesting. I just posted on this before reading your post.
So will this be blamed on Hamas as the Israeli Govn declared as part of the agreement that any incursion by anyone irrespective of whether they are Hamas would be the fault of Hamas and the deal will be off the table.

It reminds me of Christmas Day 2014 when the allied forces and Germany had a ceasefire and played a game of football on no man’s land.

During that time the bodies were allowed to be collected from no man’s zone.
This is surely what the Palestinian people were hoping to do, ( not play football obviously) but take the time to search for their loved ones.

Surely they have that right
Or are all civilians treated as enemies

A full ceasefire is very doubtful.
The IDF have estimated another two months for this war

I read yesterday that the Palestinian prisoners from Israeli jails will not be returned until the hostages are on Israeli soil. There’s a time gap of some ? hours

It's really tricky isn't it?

Balancing the rights of those people to return home to bury their dead

Against

The collapse of the ceasefire leading to

• vital humanitarian aid benefiting 100s of thousands of people ceasing
• the hostage/prisoner exchange falling apart

Even tho' it's cruel and very very unfair many people will be better off if the ceasefire remains and if they don't attempt to go against what was agreed as part of the ceasefire agreement

Half an hour to go
There's an update on the Israeli side

Minibuses 'carrying prisoners' enter military jail in West Bank
Minibuses appearing to be carrying Palestinian prisoners expected to be released later today have been seen arriving at Ofer prison in the occupied West Bank.

Off topic but interesting how the BBC have put quote marks around carrying prisoners

@Efacsen on paper I agree with your points that if going back risks the truce breaking then they shouldn't.

But then I read this and think it's much easier for us to take an objective view point when we are not directly affected living in a war zone,myself included. The whole thing is just so difficult but to give a perspective of what the reasoning behind why some still want to go back and the trauma of not being able to do so

Guardian
Sofian Abu Amer, who had fled Gaza City, told the Associated Press he decided to risk heading north to check on his home.
“We don’t have enough clothes, food and drinks,” he said. “The situation is disastrous. It’s better for a person to die.”

Yes I read that piece in the guardian and it's heartbreakingly awful and yes I am fairly comfortably at home in a safe country saying this

However life is also immensely cruel and unfair for 100s of thousands hungry thirsty gazans and the humanitarian aid will be literally life-saving - there's also the tiny possibility that this brief ceasefire might bring the end of this war closer

Not everyone will agree with me

It is a really tricky situation.
That doesn’t give either side the right to kill civilians during a ceasefire. Which has I understand happened
Could another way forward not have been found.

I think neither side considered the will of the people.
Lets hope no one else gets killed, arrested or injured.

@Efacsen definitely something I am hoping for too

@KingofIthaca agree with you no-one should be being killed during a ceasefire

The army did start out using tear gas but not enough to deter determined/desperate people

IDK what the fair answer is tbh

Hamas chief has said he is committed to the truce and the ambulances have been seen arriving to transport the hostages in...

Very very close now

12 Thai hostages have just been released. This is separate from the other 13 hostages

And
Hostages released, says Thai prime minister

The Thai prime minister Srettha Thavisin says 12 hostages have been released.

Well seeing as Hamas don’t wear uniforms, pose as civilians, and steal Israeli uniform from dead soldiers it will put IDF forces at risk if they allow loads of ‘civilians’ to run around in a combat zone. Doesn’t take much critical thinking to figure that out surely?

I find it gobsmacking that people STILL do not understand that the Palestinian government and their ‘soldiers’ do not play by the rules of engagement in any normal war, even after the purported but unverified high number of civilian casualties which is solely due to them being used as human shields and military targets being deliberately placed in civilian areas where civilians were refusing to and/or being prevented from leaving.

The Palestinian government has been very vocal about not caring about the safety of its citizens. Exactly why they started this war, to get as many of its own citizens killed as possible so the world turns against Israel.

Sorry x-posted w @Parkingt111

"I find it gobsmacking that people STILL do not understand that the Palestinian government and their ‘soldiers’ do not play by the rules of engagement in any normal war, even after the purported but unverified high number of civilian casualties which is solely due to them being used as human shields and military targets being deliberately placed in civilian areas where civilians were refusing to and/or being prevented from leaving.

The Palestinian government has been very vocal about not caring about the safety of its citizens. Exactly why they started this war, to get as many of its own citizens killed as possible so the world turns against Israel"

THIS.
With bells on.
I can't work out if it's useful idiocy or woeful naïveté or something more disingenuous.

Obviously all opinions are appreciated as this is a discussion board but it would be great to see some facts behind these rather inflammatory comments.

The only plan I have seen for the Palestinians so far is the map presented by Netanyahu at the UN conference less than a month before the October attack.

The map of the Middle East, as I’m sure you are aware, did not include Palestine. It was replaced with Israel.

This showed very clearly Netanyahu and his Governments intentions before the October 7th attack even happened.

Can we focus on the positive regarding the hostages. Such good news about the Thai hostages. Shows the power Iran has. No quibbling about not being sure where they are or who has them.

Am looking forward to more positive news today.

The Israeli hostages have been transferred to the red Cross and on the way to the rafah border

yay

First Israeli hostages cross into Egypt, local media reports

The first group of 13 Israeli hostages released by Hamas have now crossed into Egypt, the Times of Israel is reporting. The Hamas-linked Al-Aqsa TV has cited sources within the group who have also confirmed the first batch of Israeli had been handed to the Red Cross.

Fantastic news

Yay again

Hopefully this includes the Thai woman and her newborn @StarbucksSmarterSister was talking about yesterday

The Thai hostages who were the first to be released today have crossed the border into Israel and are en route to hospital, according to Haaretz. The Guardian has not been able to independently verify this.

Israeli hostages are now through the Rafael crossing.