Hostages

[TakeMe2Insanity]

This is running on Al Jazeera and others - apparently Israel refused to take back two hostages.

https://english.alarabiya.net/amp/News/middle-east/2023/10/21/Hamas-says-intended-to-release-two-hostages-but-Israel-refused-to-receive-them

I suspect that Israel now see recovering hostages as a bonus rather than a primary purpose. I think Netahyahu knows he’s gone after this so is basically going to push the envelope and do whatever it takes to destroy Hamas take the flak for it and then step down and clear the way for a new government. Hopefully a much more moderate one.

I’m glad some people have made it through Raffah and hopefully on their way home.

It;s hoped that up to 500 overseas passport holders will leave today

US said yesterday that there are approx 5000 such people wanting to leave

Hamas had been making various demands be they were going to let the foreign nationals leave. Egypt said they and Israel were ready to allow them to leave from the moment the border was open for aid whenever that was, I can't remember. However nobody was let out. Then American said there was an issue on the Hamas side a few days ago. Then some British MP's started saying if the British citizens weren't allow to exit Gaza soon they should be classed as hostages. Apparently Qatar were trying to make a deal about it. Anyway it lots like either a deal has been made or Hamas have told their own border guards on the Gaza side to let them exit now that international eyes are watching this negotiation more closely.

I think the hostages return or rescue has always been a secondary thing. They could only hope some people got out alive. The thought has always been to be show a sign of being not to mess with and finish off as many Hamas leaders or fighters as possible. The idea being a fear something bigger will happen than the massacre if they don't or other States will see them as weak and potentially attack.

So glad they are not just letting out their mates citizens. That was worrying for a bit

Fingers crossed everyone that wants to leave can

@feralunderclass what does that tell you? Why would you keep hostages at a well known refugee camp?

It made me confused because I thought the PA had control over the Raffah border, hence why I asked.

Update
110 foreign passport holders were allowed to exit Gaza for Egypt – reportsAP reports that 110 foreign passport holders were allowed to to exit Gaza as of Wednesday afternoon, according to Wael Abu Omar, a spokesperson for the Palestinian Crossings Authority.
The authority said the plan was for more than 400 foreign passport holders would be permitted to leave for Egypt.

AND

Egypt had earlier said that more than 80 Palestinians — out of many thousands wounded in the war — would also be brought in for treatment. But Dr. Mohamed Zaqout, a health ministry official in Gaza, told the Associated Press that ten of the patients died before they could be evacuated to Egypt. The criteria for medical evacuation were not immediately clear.

Opening of the border is a complicated matter given the number of parties involved. It requires the approval of Egypt and Hamas, which directly control the crossing, as well as an okay from Israel

I know the original agreement from years ago was for the PA to supervise that physical opening of the gates and checking of passports on the Gaza side. However Hamas still says who comes in and out. So the PA can't do anything with their permission.

"While some families have been let through alongside wounded Palestinians, some Britons have reportedly been turned away by officials, reports The Telegraph.

A Western official said a list of people with foreign passports who can leave Gaza had been agreed between Israel and Egypt and relevant embassies had been informed.

Mohammed Ghalayini, 44, who lives in Manchester, told the newspaper he went to the border but decided there 'was no hope of me getting through today and I went back'. It's not clear if his name was on the list.

But the UK's Foreign Office said around 200 trapped Britons will be able to cross the Rafah border crossing 'in stages' over the coming days."

This morning there were only 2 British men on the list - a UN worker and a Transplant surgeon from Liverpool

Any British people on the list for today is a good sign. If there were none I would be worried. Hopefully in the coming days the list will continue in that manner

Apparently Egypt is letting not only the seriously injured through but their families too. This will limit the number of foreign nationals for today because they needed about 80 ambulances etc and the organisation of that at the border

Radio 4, late lunch time - something to the effect that whoever comes through it will be in stages because they don't want a situation like the crowded Afghanistan airport.

I know this thread is about hostages but it's nice to know that there are openings, and flow, and I'm hoping those aid lorries which I saw on TV have also got in in the other direction.

I understand that there are many women and children amongst the the 'most severely wounded' because the trauma surgeons who are being made available in Egypt have special skills in that area

Also the family will be providing personal care so need to be with them - quite apart from children needing their parents for love/emotional support. Plus I wonder how many of them will ever return to Gaza

320 overseas passport holders made it out today so that's a good start even tho' there was no internet for passport scanning

I think I read they are going to come out in groups of around 500 a day from now on.

Yes the not flooding the gates makes sense

Egypt have moved Tanks in facing the gates. So they mean business about not letting people flee unless on the lists.

This is on sky
It says 500 have been signed off but it doesn't mention about 500 daily

According to the above it seems like only another 180 foreign nationals will leave
Unless ofcourse hopefully they start to expand and add more people to the list

Some good news
I wonder if the Scottish PM in laws managed to leave today
Anybody know?

''The outlet also cited a senior US official as saying that the talks to secure the release of foreigners from Gaza included Hamas demanding that some of its own fighters be let out as part of the list of injured people.

That request was rejected, the source said'' CNN

The unbelievable brass necked cheek

Hamas are making demands before they will agree foreign nationals can leave, now makes sense

Not surprised they were told no. You can't make deals with terrorists. Even if you are desperate. It makes a hostage taking in the future way more likely.

@Trulywonderful that man you quoted although living in Manchester for a period of time moved back to Gaza and has lived there for a year.
I know I will probably get shot down in flames for this but when people bandy about 'open air prison' accusation I think of the absolute wealth in Gaza. And the people who regularly holiday and spend long periods of time there including Hamaz Yousef'a in-laws. As I thought prisons you couldn't check in and out of when you felt like? Coming and going when you felt like it.

I have been holding back on what I know about Gaza and life there for the wealthy. It isn't worth getting in a debate about it with people. At the moment Gaza is a war zone so what was is no longer what is at the moment anyway.

Think there is a difference in your example

the in laws are not people living in Gaza. They can go in and out of Gaza

people living in Gaza can’t that easily leave the area. They need permits which many times will be refused.

this is from 2017 so not sure whether it’s outdated tho I guess not by much

For the last 25 years, Israel has imposed increasingly strict restrictions on travel to and from the Gaza Strip. Those restrictions affect nearly every aspect of life in Gaza, including the ability of human rights workers to document violations of human rights and international humanitarian law (IHL) and to advocate for their remediation. While Israel makes exceptions to its travel ban for what it calls humanitarian reasons, as a rule, it does not permit Palestinian, Israeli and foreign staff of human rights organizations to enter or leave Gaza
. It also severely restricts all travel between Gaza and the West Bank, recognized as a single territorial unit, even when the transit does not take place via Israeli territory.
First, it says, travel between Gaza and Israel inherently endangers Israeli security, whether the travelers are Palestinians or not, and irrespective of any individualized risk assessment for a particular person. Second, it says, its obligations toward Gaza are limited to allowing passage for exceptional humanitarian circumstances only, and job-related travel for human rights workers does not qualify as exceptionally humanitarian.

https://www.hrw.org/report/2017/04/03/unwilling-or-unable/israeli-restrictions-access-and-gaza-human-rights-workers

from 2022

uman Rights Watch said today on the fifteenth anniversary of the 2007 closure. The closure has devastated the economy in Gaza, contributed to fragmentation of the Palestinian people, and forms part of Israeli authorities’ crimes against humanity of apartheid and persecution against millions of Palestinians.

Israel’s closure policy blocks most Gaza residents from going to the West Bank, preventing professionals, artists, athletes, students, and others from pursuing opportunities within Palestine and from traveling abroad via Israel, restricting their rights to work and an education

https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/06/14/gaza-israels-open-air-prison-15

Contrary to popular opinion, Israel did not begin restricting movement between Gaza and the West Bank when Hamas seized control of the Gaza Strip, but rather many years earlier. Today, out of millions of Palestinians, only a few thousand people are able to travel between Gaza and the West Bank each month.
https://gisha.org/project/rose/eng/#:~:text=Christians%20are%20eligible%20to%20request,from%20Gaza%20on%20their%20holidays.

Well more than a few thousand. I think it's 16.000 at the last count and was increasing over time.
I am not disagreeing that things are restricted although I have read this is for security reasons which to be fair has just been proved. That situation could have been a lot worse. Especially if elements of that country are out to get you:
I wasn't saying his in-laws are living in Gaza. I said they went on holiday there regularly and for long periods of time so not a prison.