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Conflict in the Middle East

To think that water occupation is oppressive?

161 replies

Gardenowl · 19/10/2023 10:29

Till now I had read on most of the threads that Palestinians rely on water supply from Israel because they have not bothered to build their own water supply, desalination plants etc. But then one of the posters on another thread posted a link to an Amnesty article about water occupation and I was surprised reading it. Most of the article is about West Bank not Gaza.

Isn't this extremely oppressive? And to take water from your land to supply to the neighbouring country? They must feel so helpless.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/11/the-occupation-of-water/

"In November 1967 the Israeli authorities issued Military Order 158, which stated that Palestinians could not construct any new water installation without first obtaining a permit from the Israeli army. Since then, the extraction of water from any new source or the development of any new water infrastructure would require permits from Israel, which are near impossible to obtain. Palestinians living under Israel’s military occupation continue to suffer the devastating consequences of this order until today. They are unable to drill new water wells, install pumps or deepen existing wells, in addition to being denied access to the Jordan River and fresh water springs. Israel even controls the collection of rain water throughout most of the West Bank, and rainwater harvesting cisterns owned by Palestinian communities are often destroyed by the Israeli army. As a result, some 180 Palestinian communities in rural areas in the occupied West Bank have no access to running water, according to OCHA."

"While restricting Palestinian access to water, Israel has effectively developed its own water infrastructure and water network in the West Bank for the use of its own citizens in Israel and in the settlements – that are illegal under international law. The Israeli state-owned water company Mekorot has systematically sunk wells and tapped springs in the occupied West Bank to supply its population, including those living in illegal settlements with water for domestic, agricultural and industrial purposes. While Mekorot sells some water to Palestinian water utilities, the amount is determined by the Israeli authorities. As a result of continuous restrictions, many Palestinian communities in the West Bank have no choice but to purchase water brought in by trucks at a much high prices ranging from 4 to 10 USD per cubic metre. In some of the poorest communities, water expenses can, at times, make up half of a family’s monthly income.
The Israeli authorities also restrict Palestinians’ access to water by denying or restricting their access to large parts of the West Bank. Many parts of the West Bank have been declared “closed military areas”, which Palestinians may not enter, because they are close to Israeli settlements, close to roads used by Israeli settlers, used for Israeli military training or protected nature reserves.
Israeli settlers living alongside Palestinians in the West Bank – in some cases just a few hundred meters away – face no such restrictions and water shortages, and can enjoy and capitalize on well-irrigated farmlands and swimming pools."

The Occupation of Water

The legacy of Israel’s 50-year occupation of the Palestinian territories has been systematic human rights violations on a mass scale. One of its consequences is the impact of Israel’s discriminatory policies on Palestinians’ access to clean and safe wa...

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/11/the-occupation-of-water

OP posts:
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Coughingdodger · 19/10/2023 15:07

How horrific.

FOJN · 19/10/2023 15:10

flufferknutter · 19/10/2023 15:00

Absolutely, but it's now at the point where unless you post complete and total support for . then you're going to be deleted. You could be legit crying for your dead Gazan auntie and that'd be taken as .

So, back to talking about handbags and dogs 🙄

I've been typing on at least 6 threads in the last few days only to find when I've finished I can't post because the thread has been deleted. It's really frustrating, why can't just the posts which break talk guidelines be deleted.

moofolk · 19/10/2023 15:15

There are a few PP's taking issue with OP not knowing this already , but the fact is most people don't realise how bad the situation in Palestine has been.

I think you should be applauded for admitting you weren't well informed and changing your mind once you'd looked into it, and I hope others do the same.

Israel's treatment of the Palestinian occupied territories is atrocious. It's not antisemitism to point this out - almost every Jewish person I know personally is pro Palestinian and anti-Zionist

Coughingdodger · 19/10/2023 15:17

moofolk · 19/10/2023 15:15

There are a few PP's taking issue with OP not knowing this already , but the fact is most people don't realise how bad the situation in Palestine has been.

I think you should be applauded for admitting you weren't well informed and changing your mind once you'd looked into it, and I hope others do the same.

Israel's treatment of the Palestinian occupied territories is atrocious. It's not antisemitism to point this out - almost every Jewish person I know personally is pro Palestinian and anti-Zionist

Yes, have met several of these. Jewish protests in Washington. Jews in Israel - families of the hostages - bitterly critical of Netanyahu.

flufferknutter · 19/10/2023 15:20

moofolk · 19/10/2023 15:15

There are a few PP's taking issue with OP not knowing this already , but the fact is most people don't realise how bad the situation in Palestine has been.

I think you should be applauded for admitting you weren't well informed and changing your mind once you'd looked into it, and I hope others do the same.

Israel's treatment of the Palestinian occupied territories is atrocious. It's not antisemitism to point this out - almost every Jewish person I know personally is pro Palestinian and anti-Zionist

I never realised how bad it was. I've certainly had my eyes opened. I pray that the Palestinian people can find freedom and peace in time.

feralunderclass · 19/10/2023 15:21

The whole raison d'etre of the occupation is oppression.
The world is seeing it for what it is, I heard on the news this morning a spokesperson for Jewish Voice for Justice saying that 40% of young Jewish people in US view the state of Israel as apartheid.

Gruntsandgroans · 19/10/2023 15:24

It's so great to see this thread. I don't want to sound patronising but well done OP for actually looking things up instead of just taking posters word for things. I know what you mean, I actually looked it up at the start of this conflict because posters had me doubting myself they had such conviction that Palestinians were just sitting around leeching off Israel. It is really shocking and I think lots of people just don't want to believe it to be true. It's easier to believe that Palestinians are lazy, good for nothings than it is to believe this could have been happening under our noses and very few people cared.

flufferknutter · 19/10/2023 15:29

Gruntsandgroans · 19/10/2023 15:24

It's so great to see this thread. I don't want to sound patronising but well done OP for actually looking things up instead of just taking posters word for things. I know what you mean, I actually looked it up at the start of this conflict because posters had me doubting myself they had such conviction that Palestinians were just sitting around leeching off Israel. It is really shocking and I think lots of people just don't want to believe it to be true. It's easier to believe that Palestinians are lazy, good for nothings than it is to believe this could have been happening under our noses and very few people cared.

This is what happens when people dehumanise others. They end up following a very dark path.

FOJN · 19/10/2023 15:47

I've had my eyes opened too. I was aware of something's but didn't understand the scale of the injustice against Palestinian people.

I'm currently reading a 2009 Amnesty International Report called "Israel/Gaza: Operation “Cast Lead”: 22 days of death and destruction" Pages 48 and 49 provide testimony from Gaza residents that it's not only Hamas who use them as human shields.

MCOut · 19/10/2023 15:48

@flufferknutterto be honest, I think your posts are so blatantly discriminatory that you have yourself have taken it upon yourself to make sure this thread gets deleted.

I agree OP. When I have time I’ve been meaning to read up on the Aid situation in Gaza. Now, I’m sure that they receive lots of Aid, but it’s quite funny whenever somebody post figures, what immediately strikes me is these figures from collective sources, together don’t seem anywhere near the level of military aid that Israel is getting from the US alone. I appreciate they might not paint the full picture so I am going to do some research.

flufferknutter · 19/10/2023 16:20

MCOut · 19/10/2023 15:48

@flufferknutterto be honest, I think your posts are so blatantly discriminatory that you have yourself have taken it upon yourself to make sure this thread gets deleted.

I agree OP. When I have time I’ve been meaning to read up on the Aid situation in Gaza. Now, I’m sure that they receive lots of Aid, but it’s quite funny whenever somebody post figures, what immediately strikes me is these figures from collective sources, together don’t seem anywhere near the level of military aid that Israel is getting from the US alone. I appreciate they might not paint the full picture so I am going to do some research.

Blatantly discriminatory? Oh please 🙄

Syndulla · 19/10/2023 16:26

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RigorMortisRadio · 19/10/2023 16:27

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I was just thinking the same! Don't speak too soon though.

FOJN · 19/10/2023 16:27

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Give it time.

MCOut · 19/10/2023 16:36

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Yes blatant. This for example is very great Jewish plot esque. The moment MNHQ read that they’ll pull the thread. Not sure if you have any experience of being on the receiving end of racism, but I can tell you it’s not nice. It is very annoying that all the threads are getting deleted so don’t give anyone reason to report another one.

Syndulla · 19/10/2023 16:42

MCOut · 19/10/2023 16:36

Yes blatant. This for example is very great Jewish plot esque. The moment MNHQ read that they’ll pull the thread. Not sure if you have any experience of being on the receiving end of racism, but I can tell you it’s not nice. It is very annoying that all the threads are getting deleted so don’t give anyone reason to report another one.

Surely this is just referring to the modern phenomenon of governments employing people to spread information on social media that enhances their position? Russia and China being the two most famous / prevalent examples.

flufferknutter · 19/10/2023 16:43

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flufferknutter · 19/10/2023 16:44

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MCOut · 19/10/2023 17:05

I can see the comment has been deleted, so before anybody starts on me and let me be clear, I did not report it.

I think there is a difference between calling out that you think there’s some disinformation going on and doing so, in a way that utilises a stereotype and suggests all accusations have been unwarranted. Many posters have left comments about this with suggestions such as separate sections, limiting discussion to long time posters etc and have managed to do so without getting their posts deleted.

Ibizafun · 19/10/2023 17:20

It's not that the Palestinians "haven't bothered" to build their own water supply. Hamas have used the money instead building tunnels to terrorise Israel.

Gruntsandgroans · 19/10/2023 17:22

Ibizafun · 19/10/2023 17:20

It's not that the Palestinians "haven't bothered" to build their own water supply. Hamas have used the money instead building tunnels to terrorise Israel.

Try reading the link. It's really eye opening.

Ibizafun · 19/10/2023 17:25

Plenty of Palestinians and Arabs living happily in Israel with equal rights, enjoying the democracy. How many Jews living in Arab countries?

FOJN · 19/10/2023 17:41

Ibizafun · 19/10/2023 17:25

Plenty of Palestinians and Arabs living happily in Israel with equal rights, enjoying the democracy. How many Jews living in Arab countries?

Palestinians in Israel do not have equal rights.

Palestinians in Israel and the occupied territories have four different types of ID which grant them different rights depending on where they live. The hierarchy of Palestinian rights goes from Palestinian Israelis, Palestinians in East Jerusalem, Palestinians in the West Bank and those with the least rights (apart from Palestinian refugees in adjoining countries) in Gaza.

If you are a Palestinian living in Israel and you marry someone from Gaza you might be allowed to go and live with them in Gaza but they will never be able to leave Gaza and live in Israel.

Israelis can move and live where they like.

Gruntsandgroans · 19/10/2023 17:43

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