To think that water occupation is oppressive?

[Gardenowl]

Till now I had read on most of the threads that Palestinians rely on water supply from Israel because they have not bothered to build their own water supply, desalination plants etc. But then one of the posters on another thread posted a link to an Amnesty article about water occupation and I was surprised reading it. Most of the article is about West Bank not Gaza.

Isn't this extremely oppressive? And to take water from your land to supply to the neighbouring country? They must feel so helpless.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/11/the-occupation-of-water/

"In November 1967 the Israeli authorities issued Military Order 158, which stated that Palestinians could not construct any new water installation without first obtaining a permit from the Israeli army. Since then, the extraction of water from any new source or the development of any new water infrastructure would require permits from Israel, which are near impossible to obtain. Palestinians living under Israel’s military occupation continue to suffer the devastating consequences of this order until today. They are unable to drill new water wells, install pumps or deepen existing wells, in addition to being denied access to the Jordan River and fresh water springs. Israel even controls the collection of rain water throughout most of the West Bank, and rainwater harvesting cisterns owned by Palestinian communities are often destroyed by the Israeli army. As a result, some 180 Palestinian communities in rural areas in the occupied West Bank have no access to running water, according to OCHA."

"While restricting Palestinian access to water, Israel has effectively developed its own water infrastructure and water network in the West Bank for the use of its own citizens in Israel and in the settlements – that are illegal under international law. The Israeli state-owned water company Mekorot has systematically sunk wells and tapped springs in the occupied West Bank to supply its population, including those living in illegal settlements with water for domestic, agricultural and industrial purposes. While Mekorot sells some water to Palestinian water utilities, the amount is determined by the Israeli authorities. As a result of continuous restrictions, many Palestinian communities in the West Bank have no choice but to purchase water brought in by trucks at a much high prices ranging from 4 to 10 USD per cubic metre. In some of the poorest communities, water expenses can, at times, make up half of a family’s monthly income.
The Israeli authorities also restrict Palestinians’ access to water by denying or restricting their access to large parts of the West Bank. Many parts of the West Bank have been declared “closed military areas”, which Palestinians may not enter, because they are close to Israeli settlements, close to roads used by Israeli settlers, used for Israeli military training or protected nature reserves.
Israeli settlers living alongside Palestinians in the West Bank – in some cases just a few hundred meters away – face no such restrictions and water shortages, and can enjoy and capitalize on well-irrigated farmlands and swimming pools."

Formally yes but there are many sources which show that the experience of Israeli Palestinians is not equal to that of Israeli Jews. Given that they’re so negatively impacted by institutional discrimination, it’s pretty gross to trot them out to minimise the treatment of Palestinians in occupied territories. imagine if we did the same with Islamophobia and the Iraq war.

I didn't realise that where some Palestinian communities in the West Bank can produce water they cannot share it with other Palestinian Communities nearby. They just can't win.

....While the agreement allows Israel to export water from inside the country to West Bank settlements, it precludes the Palestinian Authority from transporting water from one part of the West Bank to another. This creates an absurd situation, as the Palestinian Water Authority produces water at a negligible cost in the Qalqiliyah, Tulkarm and Jericho Districts but cannot deliver it to other Palestinian communities, sometimes mere miles away, due to Israel’s refusal.....

https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/parched-israels-policy-water-deprivation-west-bank

Wow. Speechless. I have added his books to my reading list. Thank you for posting.

That’s not the case. All humanitarian aid and goods destined for Gaza and the West Bank are controlled by Israel. Israel also controls all building permits and permits for new water sources are almost impossible to get, deliberately so, because water is used as a means of control. It is part of the military occupation since 1967 mentioned in the OP that applies to all the Occupied Palestinian Territories.

Hamas only receives funds either illegally via covert methods or through taxes levied on Palestinians once they got in power in 2007.

Thank you for sharing this, I didn’t know about this either, only the settlements. I think with the current ‘good vs evil’ narrative being portrayed to the West in social media this information really helps shed a light on what the ‘good’ side winning looks like. Shame this post is now hidden where only those looking for it can find it

Thank you for doing the research and reporting your findings

Yes the "but Hamas!" is used as a shield to avert the gaze from the human rights violations and illegal settlements that contravene international law. The human rights orgs have published horrifying reports of children beaten in detention, women sexually assaulted to illicit 'confessions', men tortured. It's absolutely heartbreaking.

I find myself in a challenging position. I spent my whole youth campaigning for palestine and having a very black and white view of things. Recent events, and having a friend living and studying in Israel and relating back to me the impact of what's gone on has changed my position somewhat.

When you say open the borders etc it sounds reasonable and fair but realistically if eg scotland had invaded and kidnapped, raped and paraded the naked bodies of english girls around glasgow with the crowds cheering and applauding would YOU really, honestly, trust and want borders open with Scotland?

It's very easy from the safety of England to say well it's their own fault for their history and injustice over 50 years but honestly, if it was you, if a neighbouring town had had a morass of people killing people in their own homes including babies, kidnapping, killing, raping etc teens at a rave, would YOU want the borders opened to allow those people to freely come in. There is the reality that hamas and their supporters do not want any kind of compromise and just want death for all israelis. Natural human instinct and self preservation is going to react to that.

So whilst yes, I have total sympathy for the palestian cause and plight how do you suggest that Israelis should feel safe and open to the idea of people who are, or have voted for, an organisation that thinks nothing of slaughtering a load of kids at a party to enter their country? Please respond without saying oh yes but historically x, y and z but from a position of what you'd want and do in the same position regardless of whose initial fault it was historically before you were even born.

Nothing can justify the mass slaughter of innocent people including children, no matter who does it.
The problem many people have with Israel is that its violent, racist government is, as we speak, in the process of doing it on a much larger scale than Hamas did.

But you avoided my actual question. What would you, as a human being being, parent, citizen etc have wanted if it was your neighbouring villages subjected to that attack? Like literally if the town down the road from you had had hundreds of people slaughtered in their beds and others kidnapped and raped and paraded naked through the streets, despite all of your historical understanding and sense of justice, what would you want done to make sure your daughter wasn't next?

I’m not in the military or government so can’t be expected to come up with the solution.

But as an observer, for starters, perhaps I’d have tried to avoid promoting constant hostilities with my neighbours over many years, thus ramping up the hatred and violence and minimising any chance of cooperation between the two states. I’d also have tried to be on good terms with many of my other surrounding neighbours.

Secondly, if I was aware that tensions were currently at an all time high I’d have properly guarded my borders.

Thirdly, I would not take revenge on for the actions of criminals by murdering thousands of innocent children, thus ensuring that any chance of future peace with any of my neighbours is smashed to pieces for generations to come.

@swallowedAfly I went to Israel as an intern in an Israeli HR NGO. I went in not really siding with anyone. I came out with very strong views based on what I saw.
The Palestinians have been horribly oppressed, dehumanised, murdered, tortured. Land, livelihoods confiscated. Displaced (ie forced at gunpoint) from their homes. Children denied school access, workers prevented from travelling to their jobs due to strategic road blockades. Ill people prevented from accessing medical help (due to need for permits). 50% of Palestinian children have PTSD. Many are malnourished. A child in Gaza is ten times more likely to die in infancy than one a few miles away in Israel.
The notion that Israel is a fair and just state is horrifically wrong. I'm so shocked at posters saying they (Palestinians) should just accept things and get on with it. Israel incentivize 20,000 people from around the world every year to come and live there. This is at the cost of Palestinian homes, land and lives. These immigrants know this, and are complicit. We then wonder why some of them commit acts of terror. It will never equal what the Israeli government (with the help of Western governments) have done to them. The stats speak for themselves, the death/injury figure for Palestinians is huge in comparison.

This goes both ways though, you can see that right? Israel have been killing Palestinians for years. They have been controlling Palestinians for years. Locking their children up and torturing them. Locking adults up without trial and torturing them. The IDF have raped Palestinian women. Israel have had Gaza under an air ,land and sea blockade for years. Israel steal homes and land in the West Bank. Israel demolish schools in the West Bank. Israel control their water. Shoot at them as they try to farm land. Etc etc
Literally they have been happy for years to keep 2.2million people just over the fence under collective punishment for 17 years, happy to go about their lives as 2.2million people just down the road suffered at their hands.

What would you do if you were a Palestinian? How would you feel living a life so unstable under the tyranny of Israel? Personally I don't think that Hamas did the right thing. I don't think Israel are doing the right thing either. You seem to think that violence is the right answer though. How can you advocate for violence and mass killing on one side but say it is wrong the other way around? Either you are on the side of barbarianism or you aren't. If you think just Israel is entitled to commit mass slaughter then you should be asking yourself some serious questions.

what I would not want is thousands of innocent people, including many many children and babies, slaughtered as revenge.
I really wouldn’t because ultimately that will bring no comfort whatsoever.

I think the part of this I don’t understand is that it seems that the West Bank Palestinians had nothing to do with the actions of Hamas but are painted in the same light and oppressed nonetheless . Difficult to draw a comparison in the Scotland simplistic example but I guess equivalent to punishing Wales for what Scotland did. There are shootings and settlers rampaging West Bank homes after the actions of Hamas and it is being allowed and supported by the government

There are problems due to the practises of the far right government.

This video and the story about the 7 month unborn child being killed in the strikes has temporarily left me unable to think.

@swallowedAfly to answer your question I would still not want babies, children, unborn children to be killed as revenge.

In UK if someone enters my house with an intent to rob me or even kill me the law still doesn't allow me to use unreasonable force leave alone going back to the robbers place and killing his whole family. If I use more than reasonable force it is me who will be prosecuted.

How come Israel to kill as many as they want to root Hamas out? If a group of Hamas terrorists hides in the centre of Bristol do you think UK government will allow Israel to bomb Bristol to smithereens? Why is Palestinian life and blood so cheap?

Why are Israel casualties showed as humans with actual life and Palestinian casualties just as a number? Both losses are terrible and should be given equal dignity.

I think that this is a big problem. The dehumanisation. I saw a video of this wee boy of about two his eyes as big as saucers unable to stop shaking with fear, he was literally vibrating. There will be 1000s of little boys and girls just like him all around Gaza. It is heartbreaking. I wish more people would see them for what they are, real people suffering.

An attempt at humanising.

One of the posters linked to this post when the conflict started. Now I google this everyday to find out if Belal is still alive. I had almost given up hope when he posted again a couple of days ago mourning the death of his student, Bisan who was killed hours after she put a post up mourning the death of one of her other teachers - Mohammed.

Mohammed died on October 13 in an Israeli strike. He had co-authored a scientific paper with Belal but died before it went online.

But it's exactly that. Gaza has had self rule for 17 years. Surely if you can build soohisticated tunnels, build missiles and get hold of advanced weaponry you would want to free yourself of reliance on your mortal sworn enemy.
There was zero reason gazans couldn't build desalination plants. They just preferred the cheap water from demon israel.

Not true. Gaza is not occupied by anyone and has a border with Egypt. Israel withdrew from gaza. There was nothing stopping them building desalination plants. They chose to put their resources into terror tunnels and missiles.

Instead of demonstrating how Palestinians could build a thriving and democratic city state and what we could expect from a Palestinian state in the west bank, they chose the path of continued conflict. Their dream of statehood is so much further away now.

What's not true? The report by Amnesty International? Why would they lie?

Gaza has its own ministry of health. Israel is not responsible for the infant mortality of gazan babies. They'll Gazan government have chosen to use aid money to plan and execute the most sophistication attack on Israel, knowing full well the retaliation that would follow. If gazans wish to be as rich and thriving as Israel and with similar infant mortality, then they need to stop trying to destroy Israel and focus on Building their.own society and (hopefully) state eventually.
Palestine is not rhe poorest country out there and no reason for any Palestinian child to suffer from malnutrition based on tbe resources available.

It might apply to the west bank. It has no bearing on gaza whatsoever.

By the way, these days 85% of israels water is supplied through desalination. Water is no longer an issue thanks to.israeli technology. Israel even gives water to Jordan