Ongoing and continuing conceptions and follicling ahead of Feisty, Fabulous Forty somethings

[randomimposter]

Just to start us off.

May this be a happy and lucky thread for all of us.

Ooh Hippy you big tease...I was gouing to settle down with a coffee and live vicariously through your SWI
Just a quick question about temping you might be able to help me with. Just thinking about this 'implantation dip' I've read about (nowhere near that yet). Would this be a massive drop below the coverline or something not as exaggerated? Is it usual or one of those things,like bleeds,that the minority get?

I will have a read up on it for you diege. I got a dip before Ov this month but I didn't know you could get an inplantation dip as well.

Will report back....

Hey Girls
Can I come and join you all.
I am 43 and have 4 kids (3 grown up 1 at age 6)and to be honest I just don't know where to turn next....
Since starting TTC last May I have had two losses at 7wks 4dys an early loss at 5wks 2days back in June and what looks to be a chemical today .
I just don't know what to do now - this is just taking everything out of me (emotionally, mentally and physically)
I have been under a specialist since April though I still go to GP for blood tests etc..
The specialist recommended I take baby aspirin when i get a BFP next(though a blood test showed negative for needing it) just as a precaution. So since getting positives since Saturday at 9dpo I have been taking the BA but the lines are now fading and even though you try to keep strong I am gutted.
Not only have I put myself through the mill I am putting my husband through it aswell. I have been folowing your posts for a little while and have laughed (and cried) along with you all and feel like I know you all. I do have a few friends in RL who know about my TTC but they have all finished their families now and so can't quite understand why I want to start over/keep losing and possibly damaging my body and mind. I know that if I could just find that GOOD EGG it will be ok but how many months/losses will I have to go through till I find it - if indeed I find it at all.
What a bloody ride !!! If this was any other venture in life I would have retired gracefully ages ago, but this has taken over everything - I eat, sleep and breath TTC.
Well sorry its a bit of a downer intro but I guess I feel I don't fit in anywhere at the moment so I feel safe here xx
Thanks for listening anyway

muchlove I would say that you will fit very well in here You've certainly been through the mill, but it does sound like you concerns are to some extent being invesitaged.I have a feeling that the (possible) chemical pregnancy may in fact just be 'on of those things', in the sense that there are no underlying problems,more just an egg that maybe wasn;t quite right? I also have 4 children and am ttc no.5. Very new to the whole charting/keeping track of what's happening to my cycle as you've probably picked up, as had text book cycles up until the month before I turned 40 (in may). Welcome aboard!
Now where's that Hippy with my data...

Deige - since hippy has gone awol on us,,,, implantation dip can be a slight dip or huge below the coverline one. Good chart would show a "W" shape, about 3-5 days post ov little dip as the corpus luteum does its bit and then 7-10 days a slightly bigger dip with implantation, then the temps may go up to form a "tri-phasic" pattern. My charts never did the tri-phasic bit, but I regularly get the dip at about 4 dpo and then again a little dip at implantation, which for me is sometimes a little later than 10 dpo. I do not chart all the time now. I started charting nearly 6 years ago, with breaks for a while, but have a fairly consistant pattern when I do chart. Most of the time now I just chart for a few days pre-ov and a few days after to check for temp rise. I am not sure that you wanted all this info. but hope at least some of it helps.

Muchlove - hi and welcome, sorry to hear you are going through another loss, it is very hard to keep going through it. Did you have loses between your other pregnancies?

Don't worry folks I am not worried about having only got hang-around swimmers in place, have had that plenty of times before and still got preg. The shock would be to get a negative test and normal af arrival!!!! Or even more shocking to get preggers and stay that way for 9 months!

Gum - sorry forgot to add that I was sad to hear af came and arrived to you, but it was good to hear that your LP lengthened for you.

Diege DH took a test at 6 months after the reversal showing no swimmers. Drs didn't hold out any hope. I was gutted. That was 3 1/2 years ago.

I have never been this late with AF before but as I say the pregnancy test did show a BFN. I never saw anything quite so adamant actually!! LOL

Anyway will test again on Sat if I haven't come on and then troop to the GP sometime next week.

Hi diege. Sorry DS1 has a friend here and I have been the mummy hostess with the mostess. But I did find time to look at Toni's book. She mentions a dip in the middle of the LP when you get a spurt of oestrogen and says this can be accommpanied by slippery CM BUT she doesn't connect it with inplantation she just says it is down to that extra bit of oestrogen and the CM should not be confused with fertile CM.

So i am a bit and suggest that you go by what GG said instead - sorry

muchlove You sound so much like me. I've only had 2 losses this year but it's all very similar. My friends have all completed their families and are a bit that i would want another baby. I also feel a bit like you do re: how many times will I have to put myslef through this to get a good egg.

You are defo in the right place, welcome and I'm so sorry to hear that you think this Preg is not gonna get going.

djinnie I don't know much about the subject but wonder if your DH's results from 3.5 years ago could be out of date. Can these things change over time???

GG Sending lots of love your way.

My due date for the MMC we lost in February is coming up soon (30/8) I honestly have no idea how I'm gonna feel. Probably not as bad as I suspected I would back in Feb when it happened and I thought - OMG how am I gonna get through 30th August.

It's all crap isn't it!

No it's not Hippy, things will get better and you'll look back on this time with some sadness but will be able to move on (though never forget)xx Thanks for the temps advise. FF seem to make quite a big thing about this apparent 7-10 day 'dip', though also seen in lots of non-preg cycles (and not seen in many preg ones)so bit of a red herring .
Thanks Galwaygirl for the info, very useful...will try not to obsess about day 3-5 'dip', or lack of (not sure 0.001 drop on day 3 pO counts ). It's easy to see how people druve themselves crazy with this charting business.I am still waking very early in anticipation of it being time to test (any time from 4am onwards) which can;t be good. Had a dream last night that my temo was 100c which I was strangely estatic about
Djinnie thanks for the clarification. Also curious as to whether the sperm count situation can change?

Thanks for the welcome x
No GG I never had any losses (that I kno of) inbetween last 4 pg's. I had what was known boringly as textbk pg's and births no probs concieving, keeping or birthing so gotta go with the 'OLD EGGS' theory I suppose. Mind you I have got 2 very small fibroids now aswell so that could be contributing to it (tho consultant says no)

I do still chart (online) and my chart this month showed a very convincing implantation dip at 5dpo got my 1st faint positive at 9dpo then at 13dpo a clearblue digi said 1-2weeks pregnant then today 14dpo the line on FRER first response is really faint and I have no symptoms other than cramps - the AF type.

But must also add I have had many dips on charts where no pregncy has occured. I always test (stupidly) from 9dpo so maybe that theory is'nt always correct. I have had mnths where my symptoms are off the richterscale but testing shows nothing.

The one thing I can seem to get without fail is a face on a OPK. I still get the EWCM before OV and OV pain but wonder how many more months that will continue.
My consultant told me at first appt. that as long as you are OVULATING you can get PG.
But then again I was paying him so he's hardly gonna say 'bog off you old bag and don't be delusional isn't 4 enough for you' !!! Which is what my GP in a roundabout way said (tho I like GP he does all bloodtests that I ask 4)

xx

HIPPYYou know what when Ive been following all the posts on here I have felt a few similarities between our journeys. So it's funny that you should say that too.Nice to meet you finally (well virtually anyways)

I have gathered soooo much info over the last year that if there was a GCSE in TTC I know I would get an A* infact I could of even gone on to university with it.....

Sighs... long for those days where I knew nothing - just did the deed - got a BFP and then had my bubba 9 mnths later....a tear actually came to my eye then when I wrote 'bubba' god I want this sooooo much

GGGRRRHHH

diege hippie D'you know what... I don't know if the situation can change.

I think because the test was BFN I figure it must be age related and that I will come on shortly.

I also wondered whether it was psychsomatic as having a baby has been on my mind a fair bit lately.

Well I'm puzzled but I s'pose it will all come out in the wash.

muchlove It's kinda weird that you've been reading about me and think we are similar and then i hear your story and also think that we are similar Look out diege i might have a new best friend (only kidding love )

Love the line:- But then again I was paying him so he's hardly gonna say 'bog off you old bag and don't be delusional isn't 4 enough for you' !!!

Afternoon all (waves at the new people)

Hippy you've never offended me yet - but if you do, I'll be sure to flounce off and start a rival thread

I don't think I'm pg, because I'm 8 days past OV and would have symptons by now... - presumably it's too late to switi now

I like the line from your consultant muchlove
"if you're ovulating you can get pg"
How true...

Glad to hear all is ok sassy and so far I haven' put my size 7's in my mouth.

Doctor says i have an under active thyroid. this is odd cos one of the symtoms is long cycles and not ovulating which fortunately I don't have. She said my body is working twice as hard to produce whatever it is I need and I should be very tired. I said I was tired but I just blamed my DC's .

She wants to do another blood test cos the medication you take - thyroxin is a lifetime thing and she doesn't want to start me on lifetime medication based on one blood test (in case of error). I asked about TTC and she said being on thyroxin could only help with the TTC cos I will feel better in general.

I wondered if this had caused the miscariages and have googled a bit. It seems to mostly refer to miscariages in the second trimester.

Also, I know from my research that 80% of MC's in the over 40's are due to chromosome problems caused by old eggs. So deep down i think i know that is why i've had 2 MC's this year and not the thyroid thing. However, if I get preg again I will have to keep an eye on my thyroid function throughout the pregnancy.

So, once again I'm pleased to announce that Hippy isn't gonna croak today. Seriously, as i went in the door I looked at her face to try to gauge if she had a 'I'm about to tell you that you have cancer' look on it! Ho Hum!

sassy It's never too late to SWITI - unless you want it to be - are you already in your slanket - is that the truth of it???

Oooh Hippy that's not such bad news then about the thyroid,though I suppose it still may have unsettled you a bit being totally unexpected? I was reading on ff that all-over the place temps may be a sign of thyroid problems? (Obviously the 2 don't always correlate) Glad I'm still no.1 bezzer (for now...
Sassy I wouldn't take having no symptoms as a sign of not being pregnant by day 8. Implantation can take place day 10 or later, and even then it takes a few days for the HCG to trigger symptoms for many people xx
Muchlove funny what you say about dr's reactions about wanting another baby. With 4 myself I think I would feel a little sheepish going to gps about fertility problems and assume they would judge me, not that it would stop me if I needed to, but I do feel a little awkward about ttc-ing with 4 already and I'm a little nervous about what people might say! (esp my mum..)We can compare notes!
Right, off to get the jobs done so that I can indulge in Mistresses, the last episode ever

I am quite lucky is a way cos my body seems very determined to get preg/ovulate.

When i was told I had endometriosis they said it could effect my fertility and it never did. And now with an under-active thyroid I'm told i might not ovulate and have erratic cycles etc but actually mine do tend to look like the ones in the book.

I once had injections to shut down my system and was told I would defo not have periods and i still got one every month!

My body is obviously very determined.

Hey all

Ok dinner out the way - some wine drunk - now I have 5 mins again.
HIPPY Please don't worry bout thyroid probs, being on thyroxine won't harm you and as doc said will maybe help towards TTC if your levels get to normal it will only help. Yes you got that right it's still the egg thing that's the bloody nuisence !!!
Diege Its awkward isn't it when you've got 4 kids already and want one more and then being over 40.....people think your mad....am gonna catch up on Mistresses have sky+ the last 3 episodes. Had never watched it b4 my mother told me about it - don't know what Iv'e been doing with myself all this time....oh yeah living in my TTC bubble .....
SASSY You are most certainly not out bcoz of no symptoms - all of that means nothing Ive had pg's with symptoms and pg's without so it's not over yet...

Can I also just say what's the bloody alternative if this does'nt happen???? I don't have a career to go back to .... I will have to reinvent myself and I don't know wot to do being a mum is the only thing I've done alright at (Wot a saddo)
Also our bloody hubbys have never had it so good (at this age most r lucky to get it a few times a month) I've upped it to about 5 times at OV !!! let alone when he wants it on his terms (muchlove just cross bcoz she has to BD again now )

Oh well off to clear up teatime (I have teens and a 21 yr old who all eat at random times) I am just the Spanish Maid waiting to clear up after everyone .....

Love to all x

OK... I sort of get the gist - but I have to ask.. what is a slanket? I thought the MN dresscode was Boden?

Hippy I am so glad you are not dying. Had a friend diagnosed with this yesterday... apparently the medication will stop you being cranky and tired - sounds good.

The best thing about this place is all the positivity... thank you Diege and muchlove I like your take - I am going on my last/only pg, when I just knew I was pg - I felt it suddenly about 5 days post ov - and I suppose now it makes sense that I was sensing implantation... after that I had symptons... But I guess this time could be different!

By the way - I think you both are in the perfect position for conceiving. No one is going to assume you're ttc... no nosey questions... and when you do, you can either shout YES, YES, YES, WE DID IT AT LAST or you can smile sweetly and say "It was a surprise... of course we're very happy".

I now have so many people telling me to get up the duff if I can manage it, and have discussed the issue with so large a subset of them, that I'll need to start tweeting when my AF arrives soon...

You know,you're so right Sassy about concealed ttc-ing when you're 40 and have 4 kids...I can think smugly to myself each month that I might be pregnant and no-one has a clue that we're even trying..they would be flabbergast (not least my boss) as they think what with no.4 being a boy after 3 girls, that 'she's got her boy'. I can only imagine how different it is for youSassy - must be tough on lots of different levels, though maybe a teeny bit exciting too? Oh and slanket - you must know, the cross between a blanket and shawl,burka-style fleece cover-up guaranteed to send men running??? Can you imagine a Boden-esque one? (probably with the adjective 'Fun' or Funky' and with felt appliqued flowers..)Or even 'Sassy'
Hippy I agree that any meds you take may well make you feel better (do you feel under the weather?)and can only do good re: ttc-ing
Muchlove are you enjoying Mistresses? Make sure you don't read the threads on telly section as the ending is pretty good and you don't want to spoil it. I dream of looking like Jessica!
Right bed- have the much dreaded theme park tomorrow .Night to all x

Morning All. With all this talk about charts and implantation dips etc, I thought I'd post a link to my pregnancy chart, which did have a little dip at 5 dpo. With that chart I tested positive at 9dpo.I tested so early because I really felt pregnant. Here is the link: www.fertilityfriend.com/home/186327 Just scroll down the page. I had a dip the previous month at 8 dpo which got my hopes up, but I wasn't pregnant that time. If you have a look at other charts on FF, there are hundreds that have dips, are triphasic and still no bfp, so it isn't a garentee.

I read the other day (on another forum) that it is suspected that you can have "conception" hormones in your system after an egg is fertilized and before implantation, which explains why some women have very early symptoms. Jury is out on it though.Some would say it is just wishful thinking!

As for me,I'm ttc baby number 6, so absolutely no one in RL knows about it. I know almost everyone I know would think I am mad to even consider it at my age, and that my last LO was my "after thought" and I should leave it at that. If I even hint at it by saying something like "another baby would be fine" people (particularly family) say things like "oh my God, you must be crazy!", so I just leave it at that. When I do get pregnant, and make it to 12 weeks and feel ready to tell people, I'll be saying it was a happy accident, I think, because I just can't take all the negative comments. Maybe that's just being a wimp, saying it wasn't planned, and it makes me look a bit stupid...I don't know. I guess it is nobody's business, but everyone does like to make it their business and make a comment.

Hippy, I am so glad that you don't have anything sinister going on with your health.How do feel about the thyroid problem?Hopefully you will feel much better.

Muchlove, welcome. You are in good company here. I really understand your desire for another little one. Having four children already doesn't make the desire any less. I know from experience. I think if I hadn't conceived my number 5, I don't quite know what I would have done. I had become very focused on it. I truly believe it is just a matter of time. It is difficult waiting for the right egg and dealing with the disappointment, but having hope and a strong belief will help.

Re: implantation dip
not sure if these links will work they are from fertilityfriend (US site) typical charts
What causes an "implantation dip?"
The term implantation dip is often used to refer to a luteal phase dip that occurs around the time of expected implantation (7-10 days past ovulation). While this pattern does not always result in pregnancy, the term is often used because of the timing of the dip and because this pattern appears with greater frequency on pregnancy charts than non-pregnancy charts. There are a couple of factors that may help to explain why this pattern appears with greater frequency on pregnancy charts.

The corpus luteum (which produces the heat inducing hormone, progesterone) normally peaks in its production of progesterone and then begins to recede around the middle of the luteal phase. In conception cycles, it is "rescued" when the embryo implants and then continues to produce progesterone until the placenta can take over hormone production.

Estrogen, in opposition to progesterone, has a lowering effect on temperatures. A secondary estrogen surge in the middle of the luteal phase may cause a temperature dip at this time. Indeed this may explain why this pattern also occurs on non-pregnant charts. Mid-luteal phase estrogen levels, however, have been found to be higher in conception cycles than non-conception cycles and this may also contribute to the greater frequency with which we see this pattern on pregnancy charts.
When you see a mid-luteal phase dip on your chart, however, it does not necessarily mean that you are pregnant. Likewise, you do not have to see this pattern to be pregnant. As long as you have intercourse in your fertile time, you have a chance to be pregnant with any ovulation pattern.taken from this link
and this: We used a minimum dip size of 0.3F. We also ran the test using several pattern recognition algorithms to validate the correlation independently of the method of measurement.

Here is what we found:

11% of charts that showed ovulation but did not result in a pregnancy displayed this pattern.
23% of charts that showed ovulation and did result in a pregnancy showed this pattern.
Of the pregnancy charts that showed this pattern, the most likely days for the dip to occur were between 7 and 8 days past ovulation.
The data suggest that this pattern is indeed more likely to result in a pregnancy. from here

phew that is a long post on something that is so rare!!!

bother work and employers got in the middle of my MN time,now I have forgotten what I was going to say, will have to re-read and try again, just hope work doesn't interfere again!!!!

Hi all

Sorry not to name check but Hippy sorry to hear about your thyroid problems.

Just FYI there is an interesting edition of Women's Hour about adoption and an art exhibition, pretty moving.

At

Tooth 2/3 sorted! No more pain.

All the best