30s TTC. It was the BESHt of times,it was the worst of times, it was the age of rummaging in gussets, drinking gin.....

[ginhag]

C'mon in BESHes to the beach bar...sprawl on comfy sofas while you wiggle your toes in the sand and watch a glorious sunset....and drink brightly coloured cocktails with sparklers in. Cos we're classy,innit.

I've got Adam and joe in as barmen, and we have a rather nice Cave of Gloom in the corner for those 'whyyyyyy meeeeeeee???' moments. We have a reggae sound system playing mob barley's greatest hits. It's a sunshine paradise!

Newcomers welcome,as long as they drag along a bucket of black humour and a vast amount of gin. And please note,some of us have been here so long we have forgotten the real world almost entirely.

Now,who's getting the next round in?

Ah, I know what's happening CamelLights. Do you remember this happening to Polly? And it was the month she won her duffle, as me and my friend say? I think it's only natural and to be expected.

And I also feel it. When I meet my smashing pal on Friday, I will tell her why I have been having 'what? Kids? REALLY?!' moments, and she will want to box my ears so very soundly that they drop off.

Dearest, you will still be you. But you Plus. Like Anadin Extra, or JobCentre Plus. You with bits. Wonderful extra bits that make you even funnier and warmer and kinder and wiser.

PROMISE.

Head I think I love you. In fact, I think I love all the BESHes. We are just RAWK.

Dromalomadoodah I for one think that is a perfectly rational thought. Life without kids is rather lovely. There are lots of things I adore doing that with kids will not be possible or severely curtailed. Thinking fondly of those things is not unBESHly.

Please no more cheap holiday suggestions - was due £250, was promised it was all paid in (and saw it clear in my account). Am now over £100 over overdraft limit as it fucking bounced right back out again and only way to not get humungous fine and black mark against credit history is to get it paid by midnight. I know TYF will do it (we use same bank, so is instant), but I feel so fucking useless already and feel like I rely on him for so much and am so useless. Feel like I'm dragging him down into my web of pessimistic disorganisation and rubbishness

And Drom, your feelings are perfectly normal. Even I have plenty of moments where I'm glad I don't have kids yet.

Scorps I firmly believe that once you are part of a couple, it is family money. You're both earning, you're both bringing things to the relationship, but - as with communism - to each according to his needs, from each according to his abilities. Only less gendered, obv. You mustn't fall into the trap of feeling indebted - it shouldn't work like that. It won't be separate your and his money when there are children, will it?

The disparity between my paltry FFS really? publishing wage and TNB's fatcat corporate holyfuckpeoplereallygetpaidthatmuchthereisnojustice salary is enormous. He has had to bail me out so many times - including paying off unmanageable credit card debits that ran into thousands.

So right about 'family money' Drom. Me and the OM swap bank cards like billy-o, know each others' PINs, no questions asked on what's spent on what. We're a team innit. Don't worry about it Score - when you've won the Orwell prize (erm, I've seen the trophy and it's a bit shit, so the money is probably shit too) then you can bail him out sometimes. It's how it works innit.

Dromsterl, I'm nowhere near down the road as far as you but would say unequivocally that THAT IS NORMAL! It's starts messing with your head so much I guess, that you retreat to what you know. And what you know is being child-free, so you start looking at all the good bits of that. Remember Poll? I have one of those moments per day. At least.

Have just read the money thing Scorps . What the others said.

Definitely on the family money. MrM earns more than twice as much as I do. He has paid for pretty much every holiday we've ever been on. Occasionally I manage to pay for the cheap Easyjet flights. But if we had to do it exactly 50/50 we'd never go anywhere.

We also pay different amounts to bills. No joint account because of both having overdrafts at the moment. But we split bills on a "percentage of salary" basis so proportionally we're paying the same amount, if not actually.

God that sounds complex and soulless doesn't it! When there are baybees we will do full joint, but for now this works best for us.

Sometimes I feel guilty, and then he starts muttering about buying an iPad and I decide not to.

We do the same, Muse - not proper joint but splits.

I sometimes get the guilt, too. And then TNB comes home with spensive camera stuff and I think fuckit.

MrM actually has a spreadsheet that details all our bills, all our personal debts and our income. That way he can work out that we're both paying X amount of our salaries in bills and it's all fair.

He is a massive geek.

I can't get my head around his money being my money. He earns £8000 pa more than me (which still puts him under 20k pa, so work that fucker out!) and I have debts of @9k and he has savings of @4k. He already pays 80% of the bills and rent and never says owt but I feel so fucking guilty and pathetic, speshly cos I is 9 years older and should, theoretically, be the bigger earner therefore. But my inability to get a good/proper job is just one facet of my overall rubbishness as an adult. I couldn't ask him to pay off my debts. I would feel far too guilty and it'd add to my low self-esteem that I have to rely on others to sort my life out when I am nearly 40. Besides, I worry he'd turn into his Dad re: cash - ILs are virtually millionaires yet FIL makes MIL go over everything she spends and she has to go to cheapest shops and get bargains etc. Is no wonder she cooks with the rank, re-used Foil of Ages When I casually mentioned to TYF that when I'm looking after baby he'll be paying for everything, he got really freaked out about it.

*5k of which was run up in my name by my cuntbastardmotherfucker Ex, who was earning 40k at the time and I couldn't prove it so have to pay that off (long story). Can't really ask TYF to pay off an Ex's debts!

BTW, have set up SECRET FB group for BESHes wot want to fight the flab. Msg me if you want an invite (am not going to suggest it to anyone - that way madness lies!).

Should TYF be the bigger earner because he has a penis? No? So you shouldn't worry re: age-relaed earnings. Just as arbitrary a condition.

I really, wholly understand the guilt. After all, I pissed away my 20s doing a thesis which I haven't finished. Then I met TNB and he has bailed me out. Is hard to accept that, speshuly when one has feminist principles. But it is what it is; am sure there are ways in which TNB gets more from you than you are given. It all balances out in the end.

Did I mention that he also does more than half of the housework? I am UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUSELESS!

BTW, weightlossers can just ask me to invite them to the group on here too

Can you imagine if you suggested the group to someone Scorps. I mean it's not funny really, but can you imagine ?

Ah who am I kidding - it is quite funny!

I know what you mean about the embarrassment of being bailed out in your thirties. I owed my sister £3000 that she'd lent me a couple of years back and couldn't pay it back in the time she'd asked. My dad had to bail me out. It was hideous and caused a big row.

I totally get the 'so do I really want a baby?' thing. Seeing friends with their kids at the weekend was lovely, but it was so much easier for us to get the two of us in the car and drive home than watching people trying to work out what to do with toddlers to lose least sleep/manhandle screaming 7 year olds who don't want to leave their cousins and so on. TH was looking aghast at the amount of effort needed when dealing with the little ones.

I realised that I can't imagine us in say 15 years time still just the two of us, but equally I can't imagine the in between bits, especially the tiny baby bit. They scare me and I'm sure I'd break one, but I'm putting all this effort into trying to have one. It makes no sense.

So I agree that all that sort of stuff is normal!

Also agree on the 'family money' thing. We went down the joint account route when we got married, but if we hadn't done I suspect TH would have a set of spreadsheets to rival MrM's! There are so many things both people contribute to a relationship and money's only one of them.

My freebie tests have arrived. Many many tests! Bet you half a dollar droid arrives tomorrow as a result.

I've just been waaahing all this to TYF (what a joyful welcome back home that must've been!). He now wants to pay off some of my debts - is insisting on it - and has been smooching me and telling me that I contribute far more important things than money. He truly is Mr Perfect! I have my dream man and wonderful sistahs in mah BESHettes, so why am I moaning so much?!

And Muse, I ain't betting nuffink, cos we've all decided it's your turn, so stop being silly.

TYF is lovely. Smooch him for me.

I hate First Response.

tell me that doesn't mean what I think it does? Love, your stalker

I have a fresh haddock here oh stalker.

Someone sent me the test for free, how could I resist?

Ok, haddock obviously not working. Will go fill a bucket of water... .

It's just the excitement of being back in the game. I was really good back in January and didn't test at all.