Assisted Conception (and the bits in between) Volume 5

[Bumpless]

Thought I'd set us up a new home! kettle's on and choc tin open.

This is a lucky start to our new thread: 2 BFPs and a fantastic fertilisation rate from Dueling!

Boobs and biscuits to everyone

BABYB I think the use of frozen embies has just a slightly lower success rate. I guess some don't make it through the thawing process as perfectly as others. Your Hospital/Clinic should be able to be able to give your some statistics on it.

I think the cost of freeezing embies is about £1100 and the cost to have two thawed and transferred in to you is between £500-£1000, depending on whether you're on the nhs or private. The best of luck to you. Fingers crossed for you.

Has anyone switched clinics between IVFs or ICSIs? I'm thinking of switiching but don't want to have to repeat every single test and waste money and more precious time.

Good evening everyone!

Cerubina welcome back! We missed you, but great to hear that you had a relaxing holiday and are already starting your cycle. I'm very excited for you - this is definitely going to be it, the big one that makes you a success story... I can feel it!

Incidentally, is sniffing drugs worse than injecting them? I've always had to inject, which is no fun, but I imagine sniffing has its own unpleasantness - although I have to admit to preferring a needle to the awful progesterone pessaries I'm on at the moment!

Italian thanks for your celebration (and, like my DH, refraining from a great big "I told you so!" ). How are you feeling?

BabyB good luck for tomorrow! I'm sending you lots of big, juicy egg vibes. Don't worry about the EC - its not too bad. I actually found it kind of relaxing, laying there post-EC dozing while the drugs wore off with nurses bringing me cups of tea and biscuits! Let us know how you get on.

For frozen embryos, like KC11 says, there is a slightly lower success rate. We had a terrible experience where although we had a fair number frozen, they nearly all perished when thawed - but that is quite unusual. However, I believe if you have embryos that make it to the blastocyst stage before being frozen, they are more likely to survive than day 2 embryos.

On the positive side the FET cycle is much, much easier on your body (shorter, fewer drugs) and much, much less expensive than IVF or ICSI. Also, if a FET cycle fails, you can start another cycle again almost straight away, because they haven't done any stimulating or anything.

KC11 I thought about switching clinics before my last cycle, but decided not to in the end. We did have a very frank conversation with our consultant about why we were not happy with our previous cycle - it was his willingness to listen and take action on our grievances (and the fact we really like him) that made us decide to stick with the same clinic. However, if you have doubts about your clinic, then it might be worthwhile to shop around. This isn't a cheap business and you want to make sure you are getting your money's worth!

As for me, I've got my ET tomorrow! I'm feeling very relaxed and positive about it. DH is currently out getting sushi, for what we hope will be our last sushi dinner for 9 months... All I need to do is figure out a good excuse when I phone in sick to work tomorrow. The ET couldn't have come at a worse time work-wise, but it can't be helped and I keep reminding myself that I'm leaving in less than a month anyway!

Italian - I just said your clinic helpful treating you whatever bmi as the clinic (private) we went to talked lots about lower bmi's.

MTF so glad you looked up your area and realised it is all ok for you!! 3 goes, wow!! Am saving hard for paying for treatment, but trying not to be negative... dh mentioned loan/mortgage extension bless him so at least I know he on board.

KC11 - thanks for reassurance about fibroid. Sorry you had the journey you had so far, are you now having to look at private clinics? We are, due to one cycle on nhs and no hope yet of forthcoming treatment... hard to know what to look for though. Mm, salad a no go - but lots of vegetables, fruit etc are healthy and his bmi sounds pretty good! My problem is keeping dh's up really!

MM - all the best for ET tomorrow .. may say gynaelogical issue?

BB and MM very good luck for tomorrow.

BB I would certainly give your frozen embies a go before trying for more fresh ones. If you don?t want them I would love then! Don?t worry only joking, well only half joking! My understanding on FET verses fresh is that FET is only a small amount less likely to success but you can ask your clinic for their success rates. Also as your body has not got all the drugs sloshing around in it then you may find it works well. Also, as someone else said the FET cycle is easier on your body (fewer drugs) and cheaper. So if not successful you may have enough money left over for another fresh cycle. Some will not survive the thaw but possible those that do have a higher chance of making it since they have already ?proved? themselves hardy ? your clinic should be able to tell you about it.

MM Thinking of you. Don?t worry tomorrow, just say you are not well. If having to take a load of drugs and being prodded etc by doctors in a medical setting doesn?t count as not being well then what does! You are leaving in a month and this treatment is very important so please don?t give work anymore thoughts, surely someone can cover for you - or what will they do in a month when you leave! You are not a brain surgeon are you?

Cerubina welcome back indeed. Pistachio and apricot, very healthy. Glad Egypt was great. All the very best with this next cycle. Yes, been a bit difficult of late but OK. Yes, you are right, I am trying to force myself to be happy with adoption but in another sense it may be the best option. I have wanted to do it for so long but I am just not sure if I am strong enough for it!

Mojangles are you still hanging around? Can I ask which clinic you went with to go abroad or not? No worries if not.

KC11 Hi, I switched clinics purely because we could not have donor eggs at our clinic as we already had a child. I would say it has its problems as the clinic we went to was quite a bit further away geographically BUT it is best to go for the best closest clinic you can go to. If you are not happy with your clinic it may be worth checking out what the other options are and also expressing your concern to the clinic you are at (I am assuming you are paying for treatment if not then you may find it is not possible to switch clinics, I am not sure). You would need to have a new consultation (which might cost about £80 and probably they would ask to do another semen analysis, not sure how much that costs), obviously DH and not you! But if you have done your tests for HIV and Aids, and any other tests you have had done like that, then they should stand as they are related to time, they last for a certain number of years/months. But please do check! Best to just ask other clinics what they would require then you can ask your exisiting clinic about any things you are not happy with. Do you want to share what you are not happy with? No worries if not!

KC11 Sorry to hear about DH and DIY, quite a common problem, For what it is worth I heard Dr Winston on the radio a while back (probably a radio 4 programme) and he said stress was not a factor but other things can contribute and so making life as easy and comfortable as possible would probably help. Can you tell DH that his DIY is not helping? Perhaps if he thought that was what was causing the stress then he might get moving on it! I really hope you will get what you want and I hope you will not be too stressed. For what it is worth your dh sounds pretty healthy, not sure a BMI of 26 is at all bad for a man but there may be other things he could do to get his swimmers moving or whatever they need to do! My dh is mega fit but his swimmers are not!

Loujalou Good luck with Weight Watchers if you go down that route.

Keziahhopes I guess we were lucky with my weight but they did try and get me to lower it! Maybe one argument could be they were not good in letting me 'get away with my weught' and should have pushed me more! I do find weigh loss a huge struggle! Glad your DH is on board with treatment.

vadercat, MountTheFairy , Lissy, Horton, Penguin and Kiwikat* greetings.

Any news of Levistubbstears, GGG, Londonlottie, TracyBeagle, Ginger, Idream and Isle? MM Thanks for asking about me, I am feeling better. I think next month DH and I need a good old heart to heart. Adoption, donor eggs in UK (long wait) donor eggs overseas (little wait) or just settle down and be a three! We can postpone deciding August or even until September if we like, when my job will be a bit more certain and perhaps money will not be such an issue. If I can lose some weight and make some money it will make whatever decision we make easier!

Yes Cerubina I hope and pray ?...we will all get there in the end.?

Thinking of you all and chocolate boobs to all .#

Love to all

MercenaryMom Hi to you. good luck for ET later today. Keep your good spirits up. We'll all be thinking of you for the next two weeks. We've all been there.
Are you being treated in England or overseas?

italiangreyhound - thanks for the advice. The only things I'm not happy about with Barts' hospital (all three IVFs with them have been NHS funded) is a) they have not managed to get me pregnant and b) they are rubbish at answering their phones and I can't always get to talk to someone when I need to. I think I just have a feeling that other clinics perhaps would have given me success by now. I've got unexplained infertility and the consultant at Barts has said that normally with the quality of the embryos transferred on attempts 1 and 2 they would have expected success. I have to wait 3 months for the followup appointment to discuss why on attempt 3 the blastocyst did not result in success. They told me there was a 55% chance of success. BOOOOOO! Why did it not work then?

I feel completely lost. DH wants to stay with Barts because he can get there easily from where he works but he only has to go there once or twice in the whole process. it's me who has to go there about 8-10 times. Barts is also easy for me to get to from my work but are they going to give me the best chance of conceiving when the first 3 failed? I can't help feeling that i should listen to acquaintances who have sworn by their own success (on the first go) with Herts & Essex Fertility Centre in Cheshunt, Herts. I will now be paying for my treatments and drugs and scans and letters and appointments and i'm worried that the £30K we wanted to use for a kitchen extension will now all be spent on the future IVF failures if I stay with Barts. What to do for the best? Anyone have any success stories of Barts or any clinics in East London/Essex area?

Good evening all and thanks for all the wishes of good luck. All went well today and we've got two blasts on board. Hubby and I are already arguing over what to call them: Sheila and Bruce or Kylie and Jason - obviously both in honour of our upcoming move! . A number of their siblings have gone into the deep freeze as well - although they were "beginning to fall behind" so not sure how well they'll do...

Spent the day resting, reading and watching trash tv - so feeling very relaxed and positive. I suppose that was helped by the fact that everyone in the clinic was incredibly kind, friendly and wishing us luck - so different from last time!

I also think I should also win some sort of award for having the fullest bladder ever during an embryo transfer!

So, now its all just counting down til my test date of 11 July...

BabyB how did things go with you today?

KC11 I know what you mean about hating your clinic because they never answer their phones! I did my first 2 cycles at the Hammersmith and nearly went insane with their telephone system. It one of those automated systems, and then you always ended up on hold for ages. It never took me less than 20 minutes to call them, although often my question was answered in less than 5. It drove me mental. I was fortunate because the Hammersmith is partnered with another clinic on Harley Street - so I was able to use the Harley Street clinic for all my scans and blood tests and then had the EC and ET at Hammersmith. It was SO MUCH BETTER. The staff knew me by name, it was all much more relaxed, and it was easy to get in touch with them - which made me more relaxed because I could ring up even if I had a minor question.

Therefore, if you've got your doubts about Barts, it couldn't hurt to look around. Afraid I don't know much about Barts or Herts and Essex FC, but their HEFA reports should be available online (and those should include success rates). Also, perhaps the Herts & Essex one will give you a tour so you can get a feel for the place? Finding somewhere you like and have confidence in can really help you get through the whole process, I've found. Good luck!

Oh, and as for your DH and DIY - could he perhaps be using it as an outlet for stress?

Right, DH has just finished dinner (!) so I'd better go. Waves to you all...

I am running but glad to hear all went well and you are relaxing MM.

MM excellent news, so glad. Welcome to Sheila and Bruce or Kylie and Jason. So glad it was so different from last time! OOH (cue the doo doo doo doo Twilight Zone music) 11 July is the day me and DH can talk about adoption again (I proposed a one month rest of no talk about adoption ? although I have already tried to talk about it a bit!!).

KC11 You can compare success rates on line possibly at the HFEA website (I think) and if not you can actually ask clinics for their results. Just make sure you factor in your age and whether it is fresh or fet cycle and also make sure they all give you stats for the same thing. Sometimes they talk about pregnancies and sometimes live births and sadly as we know the two results are not always the same. That is an annoyingly long wait until you find out, three months, Any chance you can bring that forward? I do think you have to be careful at comparing other people?s success because we are all so different! But logic would say that if you have to pay you may wish to try elsewhere. Could you fid anywhere cheaper where you could get a couple of goes in? Certainly, DH?s ability to get there for his two appointments is not a factor! Men! My DH likes the sound of the local hospital for the birth of our DD because the parking was free! I had to be induced so had to go to the big city hospital where parking is exorbitant!! Ha bl**dy ha! Anyway, this site may be useful >

I am busy watching Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmares in French (amazingly you don?t need much French to understand what is going on!) But I almost wrote to someone on the other thread in French!!!
I feel good, I can?t say more as at the moment my moods are so up and down I need to check that I really am feeling what I am feeling! No, am not pregnant, although dd keeps kissing my tummy so people probably think I am! I realise every time I get so bl*dy upset that it is my hormones, not really how I feel. So these last few months since our failed treatment I have felt like crp a few days each month but the days pop up now and again so I never know where I am. I think I am what is called peri-menopausal! Anyway, whatever it is my two herbalie friends, Ms Agnaus Castus and Ms Evening Primrose, do not seem to be helping! I just need to keep reminding myself that the bleakness is not real life at all and once I have had a cry I feel so much better!

Love and choc boobs to all

Chocbunny - where are you??

HSG - Fertility sister said not to try before the procedure, but the nurse who did the procedure said no trying at all this month? Anyone know who's right

We were told that it was important not to be pregnant if having HSG and therefore they should do it before ovulation - we were told our hospital policy is day 6-10 of cycle (but guess on cycle lengths!) ... can try after HSG I would have thought? Just not before, which should only just be after af ...??
Am waiting form mine, hopefully next week!

Aargh. A friend has just announced her pregnancy (15 weeks) which has come as a bit of a shock to me. I have felt for a while as though that news might be coming, but completely missed the signs when I saw her a few weeks ago. And what I can't stop thinking is how unfair it is that she is pg when her husband is THE unhealthiest man I've ever seen. He can't be less than 20 stone, I mean he is morbidly obese, and eats utter crap (for example, burgers for elevenses, two types of potato with every meal, no other vegetables), wheezes, does no exercise, and has a thick white coating on his tongue that you could use to repoint your brickwork.

What I can't believe is that this man can produce viable sperm when my fantastic husband who is about as healthy as they get has all sorts of issues with his. Where's the justice?

This all sounds really tight I'm sure...but you know how it is when you are knocked back by news of pregnancies and you think "why you and why not me?" In this case I really can't help thinking "why ON EARTH you?", given the guy's state.

Now I have to come up with some kind of congratulatory email, which will be pretty difficult to make convincing. Pooh arse bum tit And why doesn't anyone ever acknowledge in their email that the news might be difficult for you? Instead she is complaining that the due date is Christmas Eve - FUCKING DIDDUMS!

Cerubina EUUURRRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!! to your's friend's husband. Where IS the justice indeed? I am sure your DH is lovely and fit and virile. Have faith lovey.

I totally SWYM about the due date. oh poor lady! Sarcasm dripping from my fingers here. Even if her baby is born on that day it's still her child and we'd all say yes please i'll have that one please. I used to think in the good old days pre TTC for years on end that i'd try to plan a pregnancy so I delivered between March and August if poss as their birthday parties could be held in the garden! how shallow was I. Now i don't care what day the baby would arrive I just really really want one of my own. i've got so much love to give - sounds like a song.

Chin up all of us lovely ladies. we can all do this i know we can.

MM - sending you sticky vibes for your two (count them!) blasts. Really wishing you well for them little guys. Enjoy the TV and relaxation. Do you mind me asking which clinic you're with now?

In Barts' defence I must say their nurses are wonderful. They do all know me by name and they are very friendly to all the patients. It's the admin system that let's the side down. I've booked me and DH in for an open evening at Herts & Essex FC on 29 July for a reccie. I know the price is relevant but the results are more important i think.

Ha Ha Ha to italian's husband having to pay for the parking at the hospital. Served him right. You're worth a few quid for parking charges!!!!

By the by my period is threatening but won't start the naughty little bugger. i just want to get if out of the way so I can try again.

BB 16 excellent news!

Let us know how it goes, all best luck and arrow prayers for it all to go well.

Cerubina so sorry about your finding it so hard to get your friend's news. All I can say is that this is a fact of life and yes, it is so unfair at times. My DH is the fitness man I have EVER met and yet his semen are not terribly mobile at all (unlike him). Do your friends know you are trying to conceive and having problems or have you kept it private? It is so annoying when people make comments about not being able to eat soft cheese or whatever and what a hardship it is! Makes you want to shout I?ll have the baby and you eat the f...ing cheese!

Here is what I said a few days ago on another thread...

?It?s hard when friends share their happy pregnancy news. I must admit I have learnt to just grin and bear it and when it all gets too much to get away from it. In fact with one friend who let slip she was about 7 months pregnant [by email] I actually chose to bring the date of our meeting forward. I figured seeing her on my terms, my timing, for an after school play date rather than a possible whole day was better, also if we meet at hers or a neutral spot I can leave if it all feels too much! To be honest as almost every friend I have met through having my dd has gone on to have another (with only about 2 exceptions) it has been necessary to learn to put a smiling face on it! But it is still hard, - sympathy to you. I once told a pregnant friend how I felt (before my DD was born) and she was so totally non-understanding about my feelings and just saw from her own side that I never tried that again! I am still friends with her and love her dearly, and can only assume that when pregnant you develop a bit of a selfish streak - as I am sure I did when I was!?

Anyway, Cerabina these are my experiences and what I have learnt from them is that the whole world just keeps on having babies so unless you are going to be away from all friends who may sprog at some point you have to just steel your heart a bit, find a suitable phrase to show that you know how great this is FOR THEM and just move on. Some friends have suggested I stay away from situations where I know I may be upset, and I know some people who are challenged in the fertility department do prefer to avoid christenings/baby showers etc. I think if you can avoid these situations and want to then it is fine and I personally prefer not to go into lots of reasons why, just to not be free for them BUT I have also found it is easier for me just to minimise them and not to avoid the people. Almost all my current friends are 30 something and in a relationship so babies do keep popping up!But everyone is different so do what is best for you. Sometimes the fattest, unfittest people seem to be the most fertile and it does not seem fair at all but then we know that fertility doesn?t seem to be fair. All the best writing your email.

KC11 sometimes doing a pregnancy test and seeing proof that you are not preggers seems to start the period off, just an idea! Either that or go out in white dress with no panty pad and wait for disaster to strike! No, don?t do that! ALL the best with deciding which clinic to go to, yes, results are important. If you fid one that is good please do find out why (they think they are good) and tell us all!

For me, it is still quite up in the air but I am feeling OK. Still wrestling with fertility treatment verses adoption verses just stopping as a family of three.

Watching a fab programme called 'Big meets Bigger' it is very good and I hope it will be the wake up call I need for loosing weight (just put some chocolate in the bin as I was watching it!!)

Love to all.

Just a quickie as I'm working... Well done BB. That's brilliant news. Well done to your DH's swimmers. Each fertilisation only takes one little tadpole to do the business. I had ICSI all three times although the consultant didn't really say why we were put on that route.

Did anyone see the BBC1 programme weds night called The Bionic Vet? It was amazing. Watch next week you'll be amazed at the vet's imagination and skill. (not sure of what time it's on).

Well done Italian putting the choc in the bin. Good on you girl! Keep that up.

BTW AF showed up about 10 minutes ago so at least I can calm my PMT brain no I knwo i'm not preg. And I'm going to have a couple of beers tonight with my Indian meal (we're out with friends tonight).

Have a nice day all.

Hello guys - wow loads seems to have happened since I last checked in.

BB that is amazing news, make sure you rest lots and drink lots of water. As for the pessaries you really are sharing the experience . My DH didn't really know what I was doing most of the time, he is definately not a tweenies man!!

Cerubina big hugs to you. Yes those crap, unhealthy people who just happen to have a lucky mistake really upset me. My friend was regularly drinking and smoking wacky and didn't know she was pg for about 6 weeks and still had a breeze through it all. It is so not fair, and people who have no idea are so insensitive . I used to distance myself from them through their pg, it used to make me so angry.

MM take it easy and think sticky thoughts - everything crossed for you!

KC11 Hello welcome - just read your earlier post and totally agree that ttc completely stuffs up sex it is completely rubbish! Who ever thought it would come to all this to get pg!!!

Hello guys, well am now 5 weeks! Hurrah, I had a sweet week today, told two friends who had previously had fertility problems and they cried when they heard my news. They were so happy that I felt really blessed, and it just reconfirmed that there are some really lovely people around. Don't really feel pg (apart from and keep thinking that perhaps it's a dream and my body has made it up! Is this a normal response??? I have 10 days until my scan, then may be I'll believe it.

Other than that, I still feel so lucky and every now and then just pray that they or it stays put and may be, just may be it will be ok!

Oh, poppy, so happy for you. I didn't feel at all pregnant when I was (apart from the breasts and the bump) so that's normal, I think. And as for not really believing it, I think every pregnant woman I've ever known has turned up to the first scan expecting to be told there's nothing in there and they are nuts!

BB, what a great haul! Go you. Hope you get some really strong embies to transfer.

Cerubina, I really feel for you. No useful advice but I guess we've all been there. Sometimes it helps to remember us sitting there with you all mentally going 'ARGH!'

Re changing clinics, I suspect v strongly that the experiences of NHS and paid patients are somewhat different. I have no evidence for this, just a gut feeling! But definitely worth looking at the options.

Hello to everyone else. Hope you're all doing okay. I'm mainly looking forward to our holiday soon - only 12 days to go!

Hello everyone. Sorry for the radio silence - we had no internet access for a week (good additional source of stress!) and then went away on hols for a week.

Got the shock of our lives last Mon when did an early test and it came back positive! Have done a few more and all say the same - and today's Clearblue says 2-3 weeks, which is about right since I'm 18 days post-fertilisation today. So as things look currently, it worked!

So all I can say is 'bugger Zita' - caffeine, alcohol, stress and lots of it is obviously the way to go!

Sorry to post and run but masses to catch up on after the hols.

Running, so just a very quick one to say....

HURRAH FOR PENGUIN!!! Fantastic news! I am so happy and excited for you.

Bugger Zita indeed.

Wow, congratulations Penguin! What great news! So happy for you.

BB let us know how many blasts you get - I presume a fair few have fertilised out of your magnificent haul, good luck for tomorrow.

Hey Poppy and all the best to you for your scan next week, I know how nerve wracking it is but keep thinking positive thoughts. It's great that your friends were so happy for you.

Sorry for being such a ratbag last week, but it is so good to be able to share these socially unacceptable thoughts with people who know exactly what I mean!

My drugs got delivered to work on thursday and it was a bit of a farce - the box was huge and could have fitted a microwave oven in so it was really unsubtle! As none of my colleagues know but are all nosy, cue Cerubina running around with this massive box trying to find somewhere private to unpack it all and shove bits of it in the fridge with everyone else's sandwiches! I think I got away with it in the end.

I had my scheduling appointment on Friday last week and have just taken my first sniff of synarel so we are off and on the road to ICSI! Very excited indeed. The first sniff seemed OK but it did make me sneeze so will have to be a bit careful not to sneeze the drugs straight out again each time!

to all.