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30s TTC - After all, we're not nice 'down there' at the BESH of times...

1000 replies

CUNextTuesday · 06/11/2009 12:11

OP posts:
givecarrotsachance · 10/11/2009 11:36

HCS Fantastic news! Really pleased and will be stalking you for the next couple of weeks

OK, back to healthcare

To be fair to scorps I think you implied - albeit clearly without meaning to - that your treatment was paid for by insurance. That's how I read it so I don't think she was just assuming anything. Obviously a misunderstanding. Crikey, that's an incredible commitment. For me, I would have to fund some of the most extensive treatment (eg IVF) myself as I already have a child but I'm pleased that child-free couples can get everything free in many circumstances.

at us being socialists. Believe me, although some here may be I know at least two who aren't, although it seems to be a standard American assumption that to believe in free healthcare means one is a socialist (which of course to many Americans means communist... or commo leanings). To really understand how the UK is SOOOO not socialist you perhaps need to live here next to Continental Europe and Scandinavia. Now there you can see proper Socialism. It's all relative, TBH.

I think that your problem is that you don't trust your Government to do things properly, therefore them taking over healthcare means it's likely to all go wrong. Am I right? I completely understand this. The management of the NHS takes as much time in Government as most other things put together (other than the Fox Hunting Bill (tee hee)) and it would be fantastic to find The Third Way and maybe that's the opportunity that Obama has now. Sadly I also feel that good healthcare for all is perhaps beyond the wit of man....

I can tell you that even though it may be true that the stats/information on the uninsured may be over-hyped, for those who it affects, it's devastating. My sister (well in-law) can get no treatment for her illness - Medicare or otherwise - full stop (period). She is not eligible and she can't afford to pay for it. There are no options for her and that's all there is to it. The system isn't working and it needs to be changed. Ye Gods, I hope Obama's up to it.

One final thing, with regards to you being generous to those who deserve it, etc etc, that's fantastic, but it's fair to say that most/many/too many aren't like that and it's necessary for the Government to manage that safety net for all - and for them to judge who is worthy. Otherwise it's an anarchistic mess where people don't get help when they deserve it or need it. Let's face it, America hardly can be said to be filled with altruism when so many of the (mostly black - ooohhh let's be more controversial, if accurate) poor from New Orleans are still homeless. Do they deserve help? Too many people clearly think not.

Please don't think I'm criticising Americans and saying they're worse or less altruistic than the Brits or others. There's no doubt that we are a selfish and self absorbed lot and no different to anyone else. This is ABSOLUTELY NOT US-bashing.

I don't believe in "rights" as being God-Given (for want of a better term). If you travel enough in Africa you see that what we believe are our rights are just downright luck to have been born somewhere which believes in pretending and working to ensure that they exist. But, I do believe that it's the "right thing to so" to ensure that your own people are housed, fed, and given healthcare no matter what their circumstances or what job they're doing or not doing (provided that if they're able to work they attempt to do so). That doesn't mean live in luxury and eat caviar (it's bad for the environment anyway ) but basic shelter and food for health and survival - but healthcare without limits. That's just decent human care.

All my opinion, and again, I'm really chuffed about the freezer babies . Do they feel cold

Scorpette · 10/11/2009 11:43

What? Oh, I can't be arsed. Americans and Brits speak the same language, which makes us think we're v similar but we have a very different society and culture to each other and I don't think either side can fully comprehend how the other side thinks about the issue. Besides, the points Cuntshine brought up weren't said by me, so if whoever said what wants to reply, then it's up to them. I don't agree with most of what Shiny said, but I don't feel like arguing about it. Apart from the thing about why Doctors and nurses train - the idea that medical professionals should be encouraged to train by the thought of massive financial reward at the end of it is rubbish: that isn't even a consideration for our medical folk and they're still motivated and passionate about their training and work. And I wouldn't trust a Doctor who had gone into the job for the money - I'd worry that they'd be a bit like Dr Nick Riviera from The Simpsons ("Hallo everybody!") . I do think, however, in defence of Americans' worroes about the issue that it's much easier to operate free universal healthcare for a country of our size compared to theirs.

I recommend 'Sick', the Michael Moore documentary. Sobering.

Gin still has no piccy in my FB - no fair!

Scorpette · 10/11/2009 11:55

Sorry, 'What? Oh I can't be arsed' was a rely to longweeweesmell goading me into a massive rant, not to Carrots above. Must learn to refresh more often!

And can people stop presuming that every single controversial thing said on here that gets people's goat is said by me? This is what happened in the religion debacle, when other people said harsher things than me but then the anger was all about what 'I' had said. And also stop presuming that every retort to controversial comments is automatically in reply to me? Jeeeeez.

HMMMPH. Sorry, but it's been bugging me since last week. Am not going to be the whipping boy of people taking offence. [grump]

PS The last big paragraph of what 'Rots said - spot on!

PPS Can see Gin now - phwoooargh!

HawaiianCuntShine · 10/11/2009 11:58

Every Michael Moore film is crapful of untruths - but my TTF loves it and slurps up every word. John Stossel is more realistic www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WnS96NVlMI

givecarrotsachance · 10/11/2009 12:14

I have to agree that MM is sometimes a little - stretchy - with the facts. It's all about statistics - don't you think? Meaning, lies, damn lies and how you portray things and one man's truth is another man's lie. Freedom fighters/terrorists, perspective on the same thing.

I think what he puts across is facts, but the spin is usually spin. So if you look at the facts and try to understand the context, it's interesting stuff.

Scorpette · 10/11/2009 12:38

I wish you'd not said MM is a bit stretchy, cos now I'm seeing him as FFJ. The last thing you need when TTC is imagining his big fat baseball-capped head looking up at you in your personal fluid...

HawaiianCuntShine · 10/11/2009 12:45

I agree scorpette - that is the last thing I want in my mind, ever.

ChoChoSan · 10/11/2009 12:48

Good afternoon everyone!

It appears that I seem to have started something off with my pro-NHS and US healthcare comment yesterday.

Did not mean to offend anyone. I think that perhaps people have a different idea of what government and freedom means to them.

I believe that most of us humans, as social animals, have established relationships within communities and recognise the benefits of 'society'. In order to organise this we elect a government to do our bidding and reinforce beneficial social structures.

I do not perceive the government as interfering in my healthcare, and in fact, I think that providing a national health service is the ABSOLUTE BOTTOM LINE, for me in things a government should do...otherwise, what's the point...health is the most basic requirement, and it applies to everybody.

I realise that there is probably quite a lot of misinformation about the pros and cons of each system, and my opinions are founded on the understanding that healthcare costs can be a real problem to those on low income, and those who lose their jobs (having had healthcare covered by employers); that despite the average American paying double what we do towards their healthcare, there is a higher infant mortality rate in the USA; that there can be real problems getting health insurance if you have pre-existing conditions/lifestyle issues; and that private companies are by their nature and constitution motivated by profits.

It might be that I have some of my facts wrong, but for me the provision of health care is the sine qua non of government, otherwise, why would I want the bunch of fuckers?

I heard some interesting podcasts on the relative benefits of different countries' health care on www.howstuffworks.com - the Stuff You Should Know podcasts.

HawaiianCuntShine · 10/11/2009 13:00

That's one of those stats that isn't apples to apples comparison between countries. The US rate is low because we deliver twice as many premature babies than say - Ireland or Finland.

ChoChoSan · 10/11/2009 13:03

Anyway, I know that you are all desperate to hear how my bouncing little follicle is doing today (is it too early to start thinking of dressing little Folly in a bonnet, and signing up for violin lessons?)

Well, amazingly, I have actually OV'ed naturally on CD13 , for the first time evah innit - normally I have to have trigger injection, or wait around until Cd17 or 18.

So it seems that progesterone DOES have an effect on cycles, despite what those nay-saying consultants say! So, screeeewww yooouu, consultants!

HawaiianCuntShine · 10/11/2009 13:04

Can we just say we all like what we have (generally, but that doesn't mean we wouldn't like to see some improvements on both sides) and move on to something else?

HawaiianCuntShine · 10/11/2009 13:06

YAY chocho!!! (sorry 'bout the x-post before)

Does this mean you are on for Wednesday???

ChoChoSan · 10/11/2009 13:07

Sorry if I sound a bit fick, but what happens to the premature babies that aren't delivered in Ireland/Finland? Do they kill them or leave them to die in utero?

HawaiianCuntShine · 10/11/2009 13:16

They die before delivery - 1 out of 8 is premature in the US vs. 1 of 18 or so in Finland. We have lots of strong NICU programs, so if the docs see the baby going downhillm in utero, they deliver it and try to save it in the outside world.

HawaiianCuntShine · 10/11/2009 13:19

downhill

PS - I don't think they intentionally let them die, or kill them, they just don't think there's a chance for survival - and we'll try to save a baby in that condition more often.

givecarrotsachance · 10/11/2009 13:25

Healthcare - Yeah we can (and should forget about it). Sadly I can't forget about my disabled sister

Aaaanyway.

chocho that is Super News old girl. Tip top. Guess there's lots of S-S-S-ing going on then? Brilliant.

scorps stop being so sensitive sweetheart - you have to agree that you're a good writer and make a good argument (this is DIFFERENT to being argumentative) and we look forward to hearing your well-put if sometimes slightly blue point of view.

givecarrotsachance · 10/11/2009 13:26

Oh and BTW sorry about the stretchy Michael thing, but I am thinking of re-naming FFJ to SMM. C'mon, it'll be a giggle. [ROFL emoticon]

ChoChoSan · 10/11/2009 13:40

Thanks HawaiianStylePizza yes - all systems are go for tomorrow - bring on the stirrups and the turkey baster.

Tonight I shall be preening my mingegarden...hair removal...anal bleaching; so as to ensure there is nothing to distract my lovely consultant from the task at hand. He is my lucky charm as he got me updiffed once before, so before I assume the position I shall rub his little fat buddha tummy for luck...widdershins, of course!

We shall of course continue to SWI, so we can pretend to our future children that we are not in fact hopeless at doingthesex.

(Scorps, don't worry chuck...sorry if you feel you get the flak from a matter I raised - I just thought we were having a normal convo, I did re-read thread on religion the other day, but to have passed comment for support would have been to try to resucitate an issue that everyone had proclaimed dead. I did not think that you were aggro and I agree with most things you say, and the way that you say them),

HawaiianCuntShine · 10/11/2009 13:41

SMM reminds me more of Shagging-Man-on-Man

HawaiianCuntShine · 10/11/2009 13:45

anal bleaching

Good good good on the crazy straw coming your way. Are you going to wait until you are 4 days late to test? Or getting in the early games with me?

iggypiggy · 10/11/2009 13:47

cho I just snorted water down my nose at 'anal bleaching'

Scorpette · 10/11/2009 13:57

Blue point of view? BLUE? The red flag flies at full mast at all times over Scorpette Towers, I'll have you know! Unless you mean blue from an American pov or blue as in rude.

Oh, am being thenthitive again

Sanpro, seems like we agree on most things, old bean. And am v excited for your top news. SEXYTIME!

Carrots for your sister but for your SMM. It just adds a fun celebrity angle to proceedings doesn't it? And maybe he could grill our ovaries as to why they're not coughing up babies for us!

PS I don't think it is entirely true to say that Finnish (or Irish) Drs just let babies die in the womb instead of intervening. Methinks someone has read too much anti-liberal healthcare propaganda, sorry. My brother lived there for years and they have some of the best healthcare in the world (as well as having the best school results in the world, being one of the healthiest, having one of the highest standards of living and being the most technologically advanced nation after Japan and so on). Although it is also true that we in Europe have a slightly more, shall we say, 'hardened' approach to the whole save the foetus, no matter what thang. As someone who was premature herself, I have to say that saving every premature baby isn't always the right thing, as the child could be severely disabled and in agony for their short life. Is that always in everyone's best interests? (Not saying some children should die, before anyone starts)

But yes, let's drop the subject now. To us, free healthcare is brill and a done and dusted positive and baseline necessity. But if that's not your heritage then it's not so clear cut, I guess.

Off to the gym - later, BESHatches!

Scorpette · 10/11/2009 13:59

Anal bleaching? Please that be a joke. I don't even trim my (admittedly feeble) muffpiece with nail scissors. Thank God TYF doesn't give a shit about all the daft shaven ravers nonsense expected of women nowadays!

CUNextTuesday · 10/11/2009 14:04

Gin I have added you as a friend, you ground me down in the end lol

PS I bought one of your cards this morning for dad- and step-mum-in-laws (arghhhh scorps where does the apostrophe go in that?) anniversary. The one that says 'a wife can surprise her husband on their anniversary merely by mentioning it'

OP posts:
givecarrotsachance · 10/11/2009 14:05

"But yes, let's drop the subject now. To us, free healthcare is brill and a done and dusted positive and baseline necessity. But if that's not your heritage then it's not so clear cut, I guess." scorp wanting the last word as usual. Oh I am SO friendly teasing you - don't fluff up like that!

"Blue" Nooooooo. Blue as in rude words, not blue as in David-lover.

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