Assisted conception (and the bits in between!) - part 3 - all welcome

[Caitni]

Right ladies, time for a new thread.

And a big welcome to everyone . Here's to many more success stories and healthy pregnancies!

One more thing sootykalucy you left your message very late last night, do you live far away, (a country other than UK I mean)? just to distract myself!

Sooty I'm so so sorry that you're joining us in the BFN boat - I was hoping that one out of the 3 of us would have good news. How are you coping - and how are you Duplo?

I'm starting to crawl out of the slough of despond I've been inhabiting for the past few days. Thanks so much for all the hugs and support, which help massively. Our three options are: give up, try again or explore donors, and I've made an appointment at LWC to discuss them in a couple of weeks. I don't think I'd trust myself to make a decision any sooner than that - everything is too exhausting and numb at the moment, not a good recipe for life-altering decisions! Thanks for the Create lead too Mowmi, I'll do some research (I'm based in Hertfordshire BTW). I'd love to go and rub against your mum's friend Ailz and see if some of that fertility rubs off on me!

Meanwhile, well done Caitni on your egg haul, and well done for making sure your DH is looking after you properly! He needs to be in training for after ET when you really need to take it easy! Do you know what you'll be doing - are you having some time off work? Very good luck for lots of healthy embies...

And good luck to you Islegrin for IUI tomorrow - sounds like you just got back in time!

Bumpless you are right to leave it a couple of weeks. a rash decision now may be the wrong one. yes that woman is a miracle 3 under two, after 45. I think it just means, dont give up. Good luck everybody.

aliz yep, Hawaii is quite nice - sunny and warm, and as long as the trade winds keep up we'll be happy and cool. Good luck with your move to Dubai and double fingers crossed you are pg before then! Have you ever been there before? Seems there's another lady on either this board or the clomid one who lives in Dubai... but my memory fails as to which one!

LL TWINS TWINS TWINS!!! OMG I can't believe it!!! Double congrats on that one! I'm so happy for you - I've been wanting twins! crazy, I know. I think your decision about kicking your (so called) friends to the curb is an EXCELLENT one! Life is too short to put up with idiots that you don't have to! (I mean bosses can't be replaced so easily!)

Congrats on your twins too EMZIB!!! How far along are you?

Issy so glad to hear you are still doing well, I know MS is terrible - but a baby is a big reward! Hopefully it will pass soon.

Thanks Islegrin, hopefully moving later in the year or early 2010. yes i have been to dubai on a couple of holidays. loved it, but it has its issues too, like everywhere else. it is all really to do with my dh and his business. I am not working at the moment as we have a 3 year old, but i could work out there if i wanted to as i am a teacher. we will see, a lot of decisions to be made, but life is hinged on one little hopeful - a baby!!!! and that is why i am on this thread!!! dont mind me, i think i am going mad! slowly mad!! it is hard to have a deadline while trying to get pg. isnt it ridiculous that babies dont comply with our deadlines? but you listed 3 pg ladies in your post, so there is a lot of luck on these pages i think, i hope! hope all of you are doing great - EMZIB, LL, Issy.

Sooty - so sorry darling. Just hold on to how far you got this time, I know it's hard when you're staring at a BFN but you need to keep going.
Look after yourself x

Caitni - How did they go overnight?

Hello everyone else x

So sorry to hear about your bfns bumpless and sooty!!! This was not our month, was it? I think it's a good idea to wait a few weeks to get clearer about your thoughts bumpless you don't want to rush into important decisions like this. I feel so sad for you sooty you had all reason to be hopeful after the stimms worked so well for you this month, but if you could do it this time you can do it again!!

Hi there islegrin, have been wondering how you were doing. Good luck for your IUI, let's hope this is gonna be the one.

I'm glad your ec went so well Caitni, fingers crossed for you that they are all fertilising and dividing merrily at the moment.

Ailz please don't put too much pressure on yourself about a deadline, I have driven myself crazy by constantly telling myself I have to be pg by dds bday, by xmas, by the time soandso's baby is born. It's hard enough without a deadline, although I have to admit I was so hoping to be pg by the time dd starts nursery in september, I'm worried she might be the only only child there and will want a silbling very soon.

I am actually not feeling too bad, I think I already had my period of grieving when my cycle was converted, had some very low days then, am feeling a bit bitter now but psychologically I'm ready for the next round. unfortunately my body will need a break before that. but I'm discovering my fighting spirit, I'm still a long way from giving up!

I went to the dr this morning, not much wiser now, he literally winced when I told him I only had two follies on max dosage and said it could either be a serious problem, or I could just have gone through a bad phase. Apparently the body can react very differently to treatment during different periods so he told me to give myself a break until autumn and then try again on antagonist protocol and see if I can do better then. I suspect my clinic will say something similar but I'll find out soon. Apparently they have quite a few english clients at this clinic as it's cheaper than uk and their success rates are pretty good at nearly 50% (I assume that's accross all ages). So if anyone is interested in treatment in Austria I'll send you the link.
I have been thinking about soft ivf too, if the next cycle is gonna be just as bad then it sounds like it could be the right thing for me. You were at create weren't you mowmi?

Anyway this is turning into a very long me post sorry but thought those of you in a similar position to me might be interested to read this.

Sooty - so sorry to hear about your BFN. Hope you are ok.

Duplo and Bumpless - hope you're doing ok too. x

Islegirl. Hope it went well on Tuesday. Are you from Hawaii and if not how did you get to live there. It sounds amazing.

Caitni - Glad the EC went well. Any news?

Lottie - you're going to be just fine. Don't feel bad for a minute that you're feeling freaked out. When I found out I was pregnant with my son it was a total surprise and even though it's all I'd ever wanted, quite a major part of me felt like running the other way - and I was only having one. It's a major majot life change but you're going to be great at it. I also remember feeling weird about the whole body change issue (justafiably in the end because my son was 10lb 9 and I was the size of a multiplex cinema) but look at Julia Roberts and Jlo - they've got their figures back fine and so will you. Also in the real world - my friend who's blog I sent you looks bloody amazing.

News from me is that I had an ovarian tracking scan on Tuesday (cd14) and it showed a nice 17mm follicle and 12mm thick endometrium (usually only about 7.5)so I'm very pleased. Only slightly worrying thing is that I've had sore boobs for the last week (left more than right). They did a htp test just in case which came back as under one so def not a misterious pregnancy. Might go to docs tomorrow as can't imagine what it would be.

Hugs to everyone else.

xxxx

Hi Ladies. I am very sorry I have not been on here for weeks.

LOTTIE You clever lucky girl! I am so proud of you. I am actually sitting at my desk in tears for you (and for me, as I'm feeling very low today).

Hi Gilly. Sorry I've not been on and have completely lost touch with where you are now. Please forgive me. I am so disheartened with the whole process of trying to get pg that I don't think I'll try any longer. I can't steel myself for the disappointments any more. No-one in my circle of friends understands. they say they do but they don't. How could they possibly understand. They are massively fertile.

{{{{KC11}}} Oh I wish I could bring you a big bundle of irises, peonies, or whatever tropical flowers you like - Plumeria blossoms floating in a bowl??? Noone knows what it's like! I've actually been lurking on the gl/doom thread just to prepare myself for another disappointment, just so I don't get my hopes up, when I just had the IUI on Wednesday! How screwed up is that??? It's because we hate the crushing lows, so we'll do anything to avoid them. Please go out and do something that is totally unrelated to ttc... and lose yourself in that for a bit. I know it's sh*t, but we're all with you in spirit! You are strong, beautiful, capable and you will survive this no matter what the outcome!

Hi Summer unfortunately no, I'm not from Hawaii, just found a job here and moved about 6 years ago. Met and married (four years ago today) DH here - he's from the mainland as well. Just bought a house and we love it here, so we'll probably stay.

Gilly it's great to see you back as well, and my thoughts are with you too!

LL I'm hoping we'll have even more ladies as green as you are in a few weeks. Sip tea and keep nibbling!

Question: how many of you have had multiple follies in one ovary after meds for intercourse or IUI? (not IVF because that's "more stimulating", if you will ) I've kept expecting to see multiples and it's never happened and I've been on several different protocols. The last I was sure there would be multiples, but only single on each side. Just curious.

Thanks duplo you are right. it is probably because it is my first ivf, i probably (definitely) have too high expectations. i too hoped to be pg by time dd goes to nursery in sept or have a little one. still have a couple of months! i know you are taking a break though. possibly be the best thing for you. i am really trying to put the whole thing out of my head (v difficult)
how are sooty and bumpless? hope you are coping ok?
Lottie i just loved sandwiches when i was pg, bread, bread and more bread. so you are quite normal! and quavers crisps! couldnt get enough of them. and trifle. weird. cant touch any of them now.
KC11 i dont know your story but i am so sorry to hear you are so low. i hate to hear that. no one else understands, you are right. we understand a bit what its like. the 'why me' 'why can everyone else bloody well do it and not me?' Islegrin is right, do something unrelated. go to an adults only health spa or maybe one not so healthy. something. treat yourselves. rejuvination is fantastic for our bodies and our minds. you know this, i know, but it sometimes helps to be kicked in the bum and pushed in the right direction. we dont take care of ourselves enough.

KC11, don't give up! Please!! I know this whole ttc business is terribly hard if you have as many setbacks as all of us here. But, you've only had one ivf so far haven't you? and you did really well. Ok, you didn't get a bfp but there are so many factors involved, even if you produce great embies you still need a lot of luck as well. But over two or three attempts your chances are very high. I think you are right, your fertile friends aren't going to be able to understand what you're going through, to have all your hopes destroyed month after month and to have to watch everyone around you getting so easily the one thing you want so much. But you know if you persist, and you are most likely going to be sucessful eventually, all these worries and misgivings will suddenly vanish overnight and you will be able to enjoy your baby more than your fertile friends ever will, because you know what a precious gift children really are.

How was your scan lottie hope everything's good!

islegrin you're not on clomid as far as I remember? with clomid I had 1 follicle per ovary in two cycles, and 3 follicles (two of whichin one ovary) in one cycle. I assume when they're stimming you for iui they try to only give you enough stimms for 2 - 3 follicles because of the risk of multiples so I don't think that's a worry, it probably just means that they have you on the correct dosage. What medications are you on?

Ailz you're completely right to be hopeful about this ivf cycle, a lot of people ARE successful on their first try, but even more take a few more attempts so just don't put all your hopes your first attempt so you don't feel like it's the end of the road if it doesn't happen immediately. But a bit of PMA is definitely way to go!!

I only just got AF 3 day ago, but my mind is already working overtime on plan B. I should be a project manager really, I guess in some way I am. So I'm currently mulling over a few questions, maybe some of you have some thoughts on any of those:

• accupuncture: have been having it for the past 10 months, didn't work, is it worth continuing? Should I try different practitioner, or maybe some people just don't respond to it? don't want to be pouring money down the drain.

• chinese herbs: my accu thinks treatments would work much better with herbs, have been reluctant so far as think probably no medical studies have been done on potential harmful side effects, should I try it?

• occidental herbs: like agnus castus, ladie's mantle etc. People here on the continent use them a lot, you can just buy the teas in pharmacies, but same problem as with chinese herbs, are they safe?

• tests I can do while waiting for next cycle: laparoscopy, thyroid, immune issues? guess will check with clinic at follow up.

• any other alternative treatments worth trying?

• DHEA? I think lottie took some, didn't you?

• last but not least, do I follow the strategy of being as healthy as can be and bd every other day, or shall I just get pissed and eat loads of cakes and have occasional wild rampant sex as so many people say they got pg when they least expect it. dilemmas, dilemmas.

Appologies for this brain dump, I don't blame you if you didn't read all of this, just needed to get my thoughts organised.
I'm currently working on reprogramming my mind to focus not on when it will happen, but just the fact that it WILL happen one day. it will, it will, it will

dont be silly duplomania we read all of your msg! dont know much about accupuncture, but as for the herbs, i did 6 months of those after i abandoned the clomid after 4 rounds. did agnus castus, ladies mantle, siberian ginseng, black cohosh, amongst others. went to a herbalist and she gave me a concoction of all herbs known to be good for fertility. she really knew her stuff. but it didnt work. the problem also is that they must not under any circumstances be taken with fertility drugs - according to the docs and the herbalist. they cancel each other out or something like that. particularly things like progesterone and agnus castus. they do not go together. some people swear by herbs though. i really had great faith in them, really thought they would sort me out, particularly because i have secondary infertility, so it may suit you if you are having a break from assisted conception. one disadvantage however i now have really dry skin on forehead and eyelids, which i never had before. I really can only blame the herbs. i have not changed anything else. so you may want to weigh up the pros and cons, but if you get pg, to hell with the skin eh!?
ps. i also did a bucket load of vitamins, evening primrose oil alternaing with flax seed oil, vit c (1500 - 2000mg) vit E 400iu, Vit B complex (up to 400mg) or B6 in high doses, and so on. if you do go down that road, let me know if you want in-depth list of vits and herbs as i have done mega research for many hours. good luck love. i would love to see it work for someone.

Duplo since you've been doing the acupunture thing for 10 months, why not try without it for a few months? I'm a fan of acupunture for relaxing and I tried it for nerve pain, no luck but I have a tricky case. As for herbs and fertility meds, I second the caution as to doing both at the same time.

As far as my meds go - Here's what we've done this year: 1) clomid and menopur 2) larger dose clomid and menopur 3)letrozole and menopur 4) letrozole (5mg) and gonal-f (75iu) and my doc has been only TRYING to have me produce 1 follie and she's suceeded in that! However in the next two rounds she's planning to bump that up to get multiples. So I was wondering if this is normal, or do most women develop more follies that that?

I've been very lucky, the letrozole and gonal-f worked brilliantly with no side-effects that I had on clomid. result: 20 & 21mm follicles on CD10 now I just have to keep my fingers crossed.

duplo I envy you and your will and perserverance to make this happen! My DH is reluctant to go to IVF, and I am too - but less so, after listening to you ladies! So if something doesn't happen in the next three rounds - it may mean I have to enjoy the life we have without kids. It's hard to even write that, but I know we have a lot to be thankful for, so I can't complain - it's a great life!

oh it is all gone quiet here. what has happened? My update is this: had day 9 scan and thankfully have lots of follies and they are good size, so scan doc said egg collection would be wed. then doc rang me to say i had one more day of meds and EC on wed which puzzled me. I then had to go back in to hosp to collect prescription as had run out of meds (they could have told me this in hosp and save me a trip, but dont get me started). now took final meds today and told EC is now on thurs and not wed(by chance, by nurse). i asked if someone had made a mistake and she assured me that they did not. i remain unconvinced. anyway i will not be phased or stressed by medical staff (this is my new mantra) so feeling a little stiff and delicate today. suffered nausea and headache that would kill an elephant yesterday. i had decided that a little retail therapy in selfridges would make me feel like a human being again, but i suffered the consequences big time. anyway feeling great today and very positive. i hope all of you are feeling positive too. has anyone else got some updates or have you all gone on holiday? I hope you have! x

Hi ladies

Ailz glad to hear that the day 9 scan was good - lots of follicles is great - though at the confusion. How on earth can they be so faffy about when EC is as you need to do the trigger at a specific time? Most annoying for you but am glad it's sorted for Thurs. Enjoy your drug free day tomorrow and hope they get lots of eggs on Thursday .

Lottie lovely news about your scan . It must have been lovely to see the two of them and 9 weeks already (almost ten weeks) - wow! Carb-binising is definitely a Good Thing at this stage as you and the babies need all that energy. Hope you had a good weekend in Zurich and that your DH has settled into the flat. Have you firmed up your plans to move over? I must say that Ian was bloody fantastic on ET day on Sunday - my clinic wouldn't let us use a room there (annoying) so I had the pre & post treatments in his house (much easier as we live in North London). I cannot recommend him highly enough and if I need to go through this again I will be definitely going to him again!

Islegrin welcome back from your travels - hoping that this is your month as those follicles sounded perfect! Re your meds I've no idea but it sounds like you've had very low doses of stim drugs so one follicle on each side sounds normal. The stim thing is tricky as it really varies from woman to woman but it sounds like your doc knows what she's doing.

Duplo My inner project manager salutes your inner project manager! In my book it's always a good idea to be thinking/planning a bit ...After 10 months of acupuncture you're right to be thinking about changing as that's a really long time to have treatment. Have you felt any benefit from it (eg more regular ovulation, lighter periods etc)? The first guy I went to TCM only, with some experience of fertility issues (and after about four sessions I had a chemical preg/early m/c and totally think the acu helped me conceive), the second was 5 Element only and I went with the goal of getting ready for IVF - he had no idea about fertility and I ended up feeling I was literally chucking money away (and I was incredibly sick of moxa by the end of it!). I then went with Lottie's recommendation and went to a guy dedicated to treating/optimising fertility and trained in both TCM and 5 Element. He's been brilliant and I would definitely recommend switching to an acupuncturist who's really experienced in treating fertility issues, especially as your diagnosis is unexplained secondary infertility (isn't it?). You're in Austria aren't you? Wish I could help with some recommendatinos - does your clinic have a preferred acupuncturist they work with? I've also heard v good things about reflexology. I've never tried herbs but I wish I'd known about DHEA earlier as I think I'd have tried that (don't know if you know of Anniemac on MN but she recently conceived after years of trying, and having a high FSH reading, after being on DHEA since Feb - she posts on the hut of gloom thread - only anecdotal I know but still compelling). One other thing I thought about is hypnotherapy - I got a CD but if this cycle doesn't work I may do a session with a hypnotherapist.

Gilly sorry to hear you're struggling to deal with things at the moment - dealing with male factor is hard as a couple but am glad to hear you're going to a counsellor. What are your plans for your next cycle? Do you know when your funding app will be dealt with?

KC massive ((hugs)) to you. I'm sorry that you're down, but you're right...the vast majority of people have no idea what it's like to be in our situation (lucky b@stards). What has your clinic said about the next cycle? Every cycle is different and your clinic will have an even better idea on how to get you your baby this time. When I feel particularly hopeless sometimes I browse of fertilityfriends as there are so many stories of women overcoming impossible odds to have a family...But I hope you don't give up hope - it's the one thing that sustains us through all of this heartache because it WILL happen for us all.

Summermagic great news about the follie and the lining!!! Hope you got jiggy and this is the month that baby summermagic emerges from the ether!

Mowmi & Issy hope you're both doing well

Bumpless waiting a few weeks before having your follow up app is a good idea - Create also has rooms long Harley St from your clinic (I went there for acupuncture and in fact, if you're looking for an acupuncturist I can highly recommend the one that me and Lottie used).

Sooty so sorry to hear about the BFN

So good news with me - I had two blasts transferred on Sunday morning and am now about half way through the tww. Still off work although I think I'll go back tomorrow as am going slightly stir crazy . We had four top grade embies on Friday so the embryologist recommended we go to blast. I honestly didn't think we'd get to that stage so we had a lot of debating over the weekend about whether to transfer one or two...eventually decided on two but it turns out that only two made it to blast anyway so the embies made up our mind for us (I had said all along that if only two made it then I'd want them both transferred). I must say the ET was by far the best bit of the whole process...I was a bit teary seeing them on screen and then watching the catheter snake into my womb. I now have the picture of them on my bedside table and we're hoping they're just burrowing in nicely and are going to stick around for the next 9 months!

Sorry for the massive ramble - that's what happens when I go into internet avoidance mode and don't post for ages! Now I just need to avoid obsessive symptom spotting .

Wow Caitni that was a very good ramble! i enjoyed it thoroughly.i love when people do that because it gives me a really good update on where everyone is. and isnt it funny, i knew you were in a good mood when you were writing it. i just knew when i got to the end it would be nice news and it was! glad to hear about your 2 lovely blasts! Fantastic, burrow in nicely now little ones! I am nearing the final hurdle myself.