Assisted conception (and the bits in between!) - part 3 - all welcome

[Caitni]

Right ladies, time for a new thread.

And a big welcome to everyone . Here's to many more success stories and healthy pregnancies!

Thanks Lottie I looked at the site and it is very tempting. spoke to dh about it and we will try gp tomorrow and if he says he wont prescribe then i will go with website. however they have no phone number which makes me a bit suspicious. Thanks again.

damn about the Green Tea, suppose i will have to cut down on that too then i am allowed one or two cups arent I a day as opposed to the 6 or 7?

Just a quick one from me - I'm off for a scan tomorrow afternoon so will know more after that re dates for EC this week. I'm with Bluebell on the old ovaries feeling like enormous florets though - I feel very tender at the moment. Still, will get worse before it gets better!

Bluebell good luck with your scan tomorrow, sounds like they will be able to see lots of follicles if your aches are anything to go by.

And Ailz it is probably worth trying your GP for progesterone pessaries. After my last IVF and positive test I asked my GP to prescibe the pessaries for me and save me £25 a week and he was OK with this. If he hadn't been OK I'd have asked him for a private prescription or where I could get one, so may be worth a try?

Islegrin I missed your post yesterday, must have cross-posted. Your DH sounds lovely, mentioning travel plans to cheer you up (and no, it isn't possible to pick the sex of the baby during standard IVF, only if you have PGD at around 3 times the cost!). Fingers crossed you won't need to get to IVF anyway

And Lottie what you said doesn't seem trite at all, and I so agree that some cycles just work and others don't.

Roseca thanks for the good wishes ? your protocol sounds similar to mine, what doses were you on? enjoy your MacciD?s you?ve earned it On the caffine front, decaff coffee tastes ok but green tea? Bleh! What about a nice mint tea instead?

onlyaphase - best of luck for your scan - hope to hear good news tomorrow evening

Ailz ? I love that story about the women in your town, it cheers me up no end

Been watching Ben Fogle in the Antartic, v inspiring but not as inspiring as this forum.

Off to bed now, can tell Im getting nervous about this scan tomorrow, was worrying earlier about my diet coke intake, a can a day is ok isnt it??

Ladies -- sorry if my frog stories made you suffer.. LL - the pain from those poor shagging cats is due to spikes on the male bits!!! - that would be enough to make me flippin' howl!!

roseca -- we too have a fighter in our house, although he has chilled considerably since we moved to the country. so many fights and bites and high vet bills. But he did look extra funny after one terribly bad fight and had to have half his head shaved. he looked like he had undergone ECT treatment!!

Roseca and Islegrin -- fingers crossed for your testing next week

OAP good to see you back again! -- sounds like you need a chemistry degree to shove that lot into you. Good luck for EC.

I am officially peed off. I have been told that my chances of breastfeeding are nil. basically I have had bad PCOS since I was young and this impacted the growth of breast tissue during puberty and no doubt all the rest of my problems. I had real issues last time, but put it down to a low birthweight baby. But upon more research I found it was my PCOS. So I have been doing more investigations and it seems my crap body clearly can't even get the basics right! - I am going to investigate taking Metformin after the birth as apparently it can help form the tissue, I need to do some more investigation. But it is upsetting. I am very grateful that I am pregnant but so want to nourish too. Anyway, no point getting too het up about it. need to pull myself together! sorry for the rant

ailz GOOD LUCK on the progesterone hunt, have you tried any of the IVF/Fertility boards to see if anyone has any surplus ?? --- perhaps a slightly backroom route, but might help?

right must go to bed xxxx

Big hello to 0AP and so sorry your pregnancy didn't progress. I am wondering how Mowmi is going . . . if you're out there drop us a line. As for the Menopur, yep that was my deal on the first two protocols. I found that laying everything out in anal fashion on my bedside table somehow helped,and giving myself time. There was one occiassion though where I completely stuffed it and got glass shards everywhere from one of those little vials so be careful!

Flibbertywidget glad to hear how you made your decision and exscuse me if I was a bit harsh about donor egg, it's one of my bad qualities that I flip from one extreme to another when I am thinking through something. It is such a personal choice and my ethical concerns are simply that, mine. I also too am aware of my partners rights and desires . . . there is no easy road.

Now a few days into my 2WW but feeling like it is already over . . . wishing now I'd gone to IVF, but maybe next time we'll get more follicles and it will feel worth it.

Hi again. Thank you all for making me feel so welcome. It's so good to know you can "talk" to others who know how you feel. Didn't post yesterday as was at a christening all day.
onlyaphase - thankyou, I hadn't thought of taking notes, I will be prepared.
bluebell6 - I hadn't thought about IUI, the fact that it worked for you has cheered me up. You are right of course, just one good swimmer is enough! I was ovulating yesterday according to OPK so we BD'd last night and I lay in bed (bum in air) willing just one of them to swim well!!
ailz - Thanks for you wise words. I bought some zinc, selenium and various vitamins and presented them to DH last week. He has also started have cool showers. I also bought lots of brazil nuts as they have selenium in them but that didn't work as I ate them!! Ooops! We are keeping our fingers crossed that the extra vits, zinc etc will have a good effect on DHs sperm in a few months time.
sootykalucy - Don't give up hope til AF comes. Am keeping my fingers crossed for you and all those on the 2WW.

I watched On Thin Ice last night too. Ben Fogle is lovely - shame about the frostbite on his nose!! Can't believe what James Cracknell did to his feet - madness!!!

Just had scan appt and am feeling down
They could see 8 follicles between 9 and 13mm but only one 18mm one which they said could be a cyst?

They suggested I do trigger shot tonight and have IUI on weds as they dont think its worth doing EC....

I reminded them have already had 2 unsuccessful IUIs this year which is why ICSI was recommended so they took bloods and if there is enough oestrogen they agreed to scan weds to see if follicles grow enough for EC on fri. Just waiting on bloods results this afternoon....

Oh dear bluebell6 I'm sorry. To be honest I don't know enough about all this yet to offer any helpful advice, but I just want to wish you the best.
I hope the oestrogen levels come back high enough.
Sending you positive vibes!!

Afternoon ladies

Bluebell sorry to hear your about your scan - how many days have you been stimming? You can stim for 16/17 days so there may still be time for those smaller follicles to catch up. I'm not sure why they'd think a follicle of 18 mm was a cyst, as that sounds like the ideal size . Really hope the blood test allows you some more stimming [fingers crossed]

Onlyaphase good to see you back in the saddle (so to speak ). I hope your scan today shows good news. I was also a menopur gal...I got very into all the little vials and needles...used to lay them all out before starting and found it all quite calming (even if it is a bloody faff to draw up the powders sometimes ).

Flibberty so sorry to hear about the PCOS being the cause of not being able to breast feed. I really hope the metformin helps. Can you start taking it now? One of my oldest friends took metformin through pregnancy so I thought it was safe to use. And don't worry about ranting, that's what we're here for. I also think PCOS and breastfeeding probs aren't talked about much (my friend with PCOS had problems with undersupply so just couldn't get enough milk to exclusively breastfeed - she was, understandably, very upset about it at the time as she'd had a struggle to conceive and just didn't expect to have problems with breastfeeding too - it seems so unfair).

Ailz Re the progesterone could you please drop me a line on logophilia dot logophile @ gmail dot com? I may be able to help if the GP doesn't but don't want to go into details on here.

Islegrin I must say I was chuckling at your DH wondering if IVF means you can choose the sex - my DH had similar questions (i blame all the talk of "designer babies" in the media ). Choosing the sex involves testing the embryos before transfer - since it involves taking a cell out of an embryo that may only have 6-8 cells it's usually resevered for cases where there are serious risks of genetic disease. I also found my DH would ask random questions at odd times. But then he got quite into it (and is now very into the pregnancy - he reads my pregnancy books more than I do ). Anyway, am hoping talk of IVF remains hypothetical for you and IUI gives you and your DH the little baby that'll grow up to be an ideal companion on world travels!

Sooty sorry to hear the tww is taking its toll. It's hard to keep distracted but am willing time to fly for you. I think Mowmi is doing ok, as I sometimes see her post on another thread. PS the TV screens at work are full of the cricket...not that it makes any sense to me but the British men around me seem happy with England's performance in the Ashes (for once ).

Lottie don't worry about the weight gain - you're carrying twins after all so the "normal" guidelines go out the window! All my comfort eating over the past year dealing with infertility and my avoidance of exercise (using your friend's research about the effects of adrenaline on IVF chances as my excuse for jacking in running ) means I got pregnant when my BMI is the highest it's ever been. But I'm trying to adopt a hey-ho attitude but am also failing trying to avoid falling into the "eating for two" trap . How was your second scan btw? And how are your plans to move to the land of cheese and chocolate and watches? I also totally agree with Sooty that fear is a normal and necessary part of preparation. I'm actually looking into hypnobirthing as a way of trying to manage my (normal) fears.

Roseca am hoping you get good news at the end of your tww - when are you due to test?

Gingerwine firstly, I love your name (am a big gingerwine fan ). Secondly welcome to this lovely thread. I remember the early stages of embarking on assisted conception - I had to get over my grief that we weren't going to be a "normal" couple. But once I was over that I found the assisted conception route quite empowering...which is maybe the wrong word but it was at least an escape from the constant monthly stress of frantically trying and failing to conceive...

Waves to Duplo Summer NPA and everyone I've not mentioned by name. Nothing new with me. My DH is over his swine flu and I, so far, seem to have avoided it (knocks firmly on wood). Am getting a bit sick of all the conflicting advice for pregnant women/those ttc. I got especially annoyed when the NCT said we should all just postpone it til after the pandemic (which could be two years time for god's sake!).

thanks caitni and gingerwine for your replies. Beginning to understand why people say this is a rollercoaster ride!

bloods came back looking good so they agreed to give follies 2 more days - have another scan weds. fingers crossed. grow little follies grow.
caitni am on day 8 of treatment (CD9) so like you, I was surprised they would dismiss them so early on

Bluebell am glad they're giving you two more days - lots can happen in two days - as 8 days of stimming seems very early to dismiss a cycle. Even 10 days of stimming is still on the low side - 12-14 days is about average. I had to stim for 10 days but it was because the big follicles I had were getting too big (to the 22mm - 24mm stage) and my estrogen levels were getting too high so they didn't want to give the smaller follicles a chance to catch up. It may be worth considering pushing for more stim time on Wed if your follicles develop nicely. In the meantime, willing those follicles to grow grow grow. Time to get the hot water bottle on the tummy (may be an old wives tale but Zita West swears by keeping the womb area warm while stimming - I used to sleep with a hot water bottle in the band of my pajama pants ).

Hello lovely TTC and pg ladies! And welcome to Bluebell6 and Gingerwine (I agree about the fab name).

Islegrin I think you mentioned going mostly veggie? Sounds very healthy in general but I just wanted to flag up that I was advised to make sure I ate some protein with every meal while trying to grow eggs - you probably already are but just thought I'd pass it on in case!

Ailz good luck with getting progesterone supplements - I would really have thought that your doc should be able to help you out here without having to source your own, seems like just the sort of thing they're there for...

I've been lurking like a good 'un and trying to keep up with all your news but somehow wasn't up to posting - I think I felt like since our cycle failed I wasn't part of the gang! In fact, having thought I was over the worst of the sadness etc, I discovered I was really angry in an irrational way with a whole list of things: my body, my parents, my job, my self... which I thought was terrible until my very wise acupuncturist pointed out that anger is part of the grieving process and I'm grieving for the children I may never have. Doh! Funnily enough, since then I've felt much better...

Anyway, we're due to start again sometime next week - in fact we were due to start 2 weeks ago but AF turned up early while we were away, whaddya know, so we couldn't. So I'm back on the alcohol, caffeine, sugar and everything else wagon and trying to get my attitude sorted out, fingers xed...

Yes LL I agree with you. i think there is a place in the world for those sites! Went to doc and he was on holiday as i suspected, so saw very nice other gp and he apologised profusely and said he couldnt prescribe without letter from gynae! i knew that would happen. so i am now going to email him and call in morning.
OAP good luck with scan, hope it has gone well today, loads of follicles.
Flibberty your frog story didnt upset me anyway, a bit of disgusting news is always welcome to stop us thinking about fertility for a moment or two! you can tell us more if you like. you see - the story about spikes on the male bits is just what we need, now i am glad to be a human! by the way, you dont have a crap body, you just have PCOS! if your body gave you a child and nearly another one then it is a great body, a miracle-body. poor body, apologise to it now! go on! I am at a bloody dead end as far as the progesterone is concerned, or maybe as far as the energy needed is concerned.

I dont know what happened but i just missed about 10 posts when i read them last time. that is just weird. huh.
anyway gingerwine glad you are on the vitamin bandwagon! my dh grumbles so much when i give him his bowl of vits, but he takes them anyway.
Bluebell dont be down yet, dont want to give you false info and not icsi expert, but i do know that a lot can change in two days, follicles are there and they can grow a lot in two days. if you look up further in this thread and on other ones, you will see this happening again and again. chin up, it aint over yet. I agree with caitni on the hot water bottle on the tum advice and lots of hot food. i think i added in the 'lots' myself, but read it as you wish!
bumpless i am giving you a friendly gentle shake here, shake shake, with a failed cycle behind you, you are most definitely part of the gang and definitely in the right place! i know EXACTLY how you feel, i too recovered -in my own head- after a failed cycle - only to have an angry, sad, depressed, crying, moping outbreak about a week or 2 later! so we must be normal! my fingers are crossed for you and hope it works out for us.
got my review consultation for 13 August. seems far away, but i kind of have my mind made up to go with another clinic. just not sure which. think it may be lister. i will email you now caitni xxx

My word, this thread is busy today
Ailz best of luck with your locum GP tomorrow, it must be so frustrating to know what you want and not be able to get it.

Bumpless welcome back, don't worry about your absence as I think there are a fair few lurkers on this thread - I lurked for months earlier this summer before deciding to take the plunge back in. I do empathise though - I felt that I wouldn't really join back in until I was cycling again, for some unknown reason

And Bluebell I really don't understand why the clinic was going to write off this cycle for you so early. Glad they have given you another couple of days grace anyway, but it does seem a little premature to be setting deadlines. Best of luck anyway

And Flibberty sure you have seen it already but there is a huge piece in the Times today about breast feeding not being the wonderful thing it is cracked up to be, with many of the advantages of breastfeeding being rather over-emphasised by the NCT and NHS etc. Not sure if this will help you at all as there is a huge difference with not wanting to do something and then not being able to do it, and wanting to do something that isn't possible.

Hi Sooty good to hear from you again. Yes those little vials can shatter and go an awfully long way! Anyway, I only have the trigger shot tonight, no more FSH drugs!

The scan today was fine, showed at least 4 follies past 18mm and the rest below 15mm so it looks like I will have max 4 eggs at EC on Wednesday - strangely I'm fine with this, would rather have fewer better eggs anyway (or maybe Lottie's post about numbers has sunk into my subconscious?). Anyway, last lot of needles tonight at 10pm, yippee!

Hi to everyone else and sorry if I've missed anyone

OAP enjoy your drug free day tomorrow! Quality not quantity is the mantra on here

Ailz I've responded to your email (apologies, tis a bit of a ramble!).

Bumpless welcome back. I think lurking on here is totally normal (I lurked for ages before my treatment started, which meant I felt like I knew everyone when I first started posting ). Sorry to hear you've been through the emotional wringer, but your acupuncturist is right - anger is a healthy part of the grieving process. It sounds like you're in a good place to start a new cycle

And night night to everyone else. Off to fall asleep on the couch in front of supersizers eat the 50s (or whatever it's called...am mildly obsessed with them!).

Wow this is such a friendly thread. I'm so glad I found it.

Hi Caitni and Bumpless, glad you like my name. I loined MN at christmas time and I just can't resist the stuff whilst writing christmas cards, wrapping pressies etc... Might have to change my name if I manage to get pregnant I suppose!

Bluebell6 - good news about the oestrogen levels and fingers crossed for the next few days.

Ailz - my DH is none too impressed with his vits. Mind you he's even less impressed when I laugh at him shrieking cos the shower is cold!! Anyway enough of that. I hope you get some success at the GPs tomorrow.

Onlyaphase - Glad to hear your scan was fine. Best of luck. Fingers crossed for some good eggs.

Hello to anyone else I haven't mentioned!!

My word - there have been a lot of posts since Saturday! I feel so far behind!

gingerwine welcome, glad to see you are fitting right in!

Bumpless so sorry to hear about your downturn in mood, completely understandable - and they usually come in waves. Enjoy your freedom to eat/drink anything you want, and stay away from meddling advice over the next few days - just do whatever you want! Oh- and I'm eating plant protein, just not animal protein (well I take that back, still trying to ween off of cow's milk - it's been a staple in my diet my whole life! and I made a BIG mistake and bought cheddar wurst at the store yesterday - I love them! (BAD VEGETARIAN, BAD!) Yeah, it's going to be a long road for me

Taking vitamins as well, just to make sure I get the folate, etc. etc.

OAP good luck with your trigger/OV! I'm so glad to be done with injections! It's like a mini vacation instead of just the TWW! Hope your EC goes perfectly on Wednesday.

Ailz sorry the holiday/travel got in the way of progesterone this time, hopefully you'll get it sorted out soon. It's not mandatory, but it does give the emby's a few more days chance to nestle in. Sorry I've forgotten - are you doing IUI or IVF?

Bluebell please listen to the ladies, a lot can happen in just a day or two. I've got my fingers crossed for your little follies - GROW GROW GROW!!! Keep us posted.

Well - not much new for me, my soreness is starting to tone down, so I wonder if it was caused by the FSH let down versus conceiving... it was probably too early to be a real symptom. I'm just busy counting up the days until I can start testing early! (I know, I'm bad, awful, and the rest - but it does give me something to do!)

Roseca I was wrong before - my official test day is also Tuesday with you. Who's the third? Is it Sooty??? How did your holiday weekend away go?

Waves to all!

Welcome back Bumpless, I know exactly how you feel with needing to come and go with the thread . . . It's not that I don't appreciate the supoort on this thread, I do, I really do . . . but it's very hard to remain positive for the others when you are feeling so down, so I think retreat is somehow the best option. After a failed cycle, and I've now had six attempts it all feels so futile and you don't really want to express that to those who are still holding out hope. And maybe the green face is too much at that time as well . I also think grief is actually part of the process of IVF. In some ways I think it has a positive benefit of giving you a structure for that grief. I might be wrong but when I walk away from all this at the end of the year (which is my plan) I expect I will be ready to move on. A bit like when partners of someone who has had a long battle with cancer quite often remarry quickly - the process of drawing it out (IVF/Treatment) becomes part of the grieving process . . . am I making sense?

Hang in there Bluebell and if you have sperm issues I would definately stick to IVF not IUI. I had a long discussion with my Dr about this last week. We have super duper sperm, but she still feels that there are advantages to even single egg IVF - and this is reflected in the success rates.

Good luck with the EC OAP. Four is a good number - modest yet potent.

Good luck on tues Islegrin, is it this tues or next? I am on testing on the 31st, quite a while to go yet.. .

HI everyone
gingerwine laughter is the best medicine and you can only laugh at whining men and those being half frozen in a shower. i love it. i think i will make up a reason for my dh to have a cold shower! hee hee!
One thing i forgot to say bumpless, when you have those awful dark days, there is always a day that comes very soon afterwards that is happier and clearer than you have had in months. i always find that you wake up one day afer crying for days, and wonder what all the fuss was about. you start making plans for the rest of your life, you feel really happy and focussed. it must be something in the hormones or something. look forward to that day if you have not already had it.
Islegrin i am having a month or two break before i start second ivf. i say break, but we are doing it every night. it is my dh plan to get me pg. exhausting and extremely non-passionate. oh dear. good luck with your countdown!
sooty i agree it is good to have a plan. dont feel you have to post all the time, we are ok if you keep popping in and out. you can tell us how down you are feeling too though. i had some of my worst days ever on here. we are thinking of you, dont forget. do whatever you need to do.

First of all, very good luck OAP for EC tomorrow! I only had 4 mature eggs (plus one immature one) and they gave us 3 embryos for transfer so you're right, quality over quantity can be just as good (would have been even better if they'd stuck!)

Ailz thanks for the shake! I did get myself into quite a bad place there for a while and you are quite right, I do feel better now about everything - including the possibility that we may never succeed (although we'll give this cycle everything we've got). Kinda like LL 's nerves about being a fabulous mummy of twins (you will be BRILLIANT) - it's all prep I guess! LoL about your DH going for it every night - we did that before IVF for months, and called it carpet bombing!

Bluebell, I hope you're not worrying too much about sperm statistics. I can't remember ours exactly but they were lower than desirable in number and wiggliness, and knowing we were going straight for ICSI was a weight off my mind, so I would definitely investigate that if I were you.

Flibberty I do so feel for you about your BF concerns. I had a friend who had too little milk to feed fully, but she did a little every day and topped up with bottles - is that a route you could explore? That way you're still getting some of the benefits across but relieveing the pressure to perform. I echo Ailz , your body is incredible, it's been through so much and its giving you two wonderful children, I hope you can forgive it this!

waves to everyone

bluebell regarding my protocol on D2 i was on 0.5mls of Buserelin injections and D3 was 0.5mls of buserelin and 450 of Puregon for two weeks it seemed to work for me the flash protocol but am feeling a bit down in the dumps today as i feel like i am getting AF pains and keep checking to see if AF has come to visit which i dont want it to, my boobs ache like mad but they have been since i started down regging etc so god only knows what is happening down there! I thought if this was working then embys are 8 days old today but i suppose it is to expected i know people say to look on the bright side and think positive but i really dont feel like that today. bluebell fingers and everything else are crossed for you chick a few days does make a difference though in relation to the folls, my second to last scan i had one at 18 and 2 at 15 or something like that and on the last scan they grew again to 19 and the others caught up more or less.

Caitni my tww ends next monday am booked in for test first thing monday morning and then it is a case of waiting around for the telephone to ring.

OAP good luck with EC tomoz Fingers crossed

flibberty frog story didnt make me suffer i was just dumbfounded that frogs could make noises like that.