Assisted Conception and the bits inbetween

[soosy]

Welcome to the new thread I only hope I can link it to the old one

Hi Onion

Welcome I'm also in the early stages. I think you're a little further down the line than me. We're waiting for DH's blood results to come through (3 months it takes ) and also for an appointment for him to see a Urologist. So, waiting for that appointment to come through and then our follow up appointment on October 30th means there's plenty of thumb twiddling going on in the Glasto household.

The good news is our Consultant has confirmed that we will need IVF and now it's just a matter of waiting to see whether we can use DHs sperm or have to find a donor.

Hi all and welcome newies, I hope we can still turn around this thread

Good luck with your cycle mowmi, can I ask what dose of Gonal are you taking?

I had my follow up today - seems I have diminished ovarian reserve - and the consultant wasn't so keen to do another cycle. He started talking about donor egg, so I jumped in a reminded him that I did get two embryo's from my two eggs last time and one was an 8 cell. He then agreed it was probably worth another try - at least for diagnostic purposes so I think that's good. We are going to try and do a lower dose cycle, but the bad news is that the clinic is moving premises and are caught up in a battle with the health inspectors to get approval so there is no disruption in service! Anyway so this means that I still don't know if I will get another one in before I turn 40, so I have kept my appointment in September with Dr Nargund just in case the health inspectors decide to hold up all the ladies in Hackney!

I also ran into my favourite doctor (I have been bumped up to deal with the consultant due to my abandoned cycle) and he was so upset that it had failed. He told me to contact him if the consultant said no to another cycle, said he would argue my case for me. Then the consultant gave me his email ! Quite funny really, I guess they get sick of the system too and just want to make sure the NHS red-tape doesn't get in the way of their doctoring.

So all in all a better day, NHS up ten points, actual outcomes neutral . . . we shall see what happens next time. . .

Hi All,

Hi Sooty - I'm on 150 (is it units??) I've got my first scan tomorrow (Bit worried to be honest because AF was soooo light and I'm worried it was only spotting? think we might have wasted a lot of drugs again for nothing... will see what they say tomorrow!!)

Sounds like your appointment went well, well at least the outcome was fairly positive. Glad you got another go out of them. The other doc sounds lovely - nice to have someone on your side!

Hope everyone is good tonight?

I'll probably be posting tomorrow telling you all what an absolute idiot I am!!

x

Glasto - can't believe it takes 3 months to get your DH's results through - shocking! Can I ask if you would still need IVF if you did decide to use a donor, or would you be able to go for DIUI?

Sooty- glad you have the chance of another cycle - presumably on the NHS too? Are you based in Hackney - I spent 2 years living in Southborough Road near Victoria Park, and have happy memories of Hackney generally. Apart from the burglary incident!

I wouldn't worry too much Mowmi, when I had annovolatory cycles (way back in the days when there was no drugs in my system) I used to have very light periods. This had no bearing on the next cycle which was often a proper one . . .

Interesting re your dosage. my consultant wanted to have a look at some studies - but his ball park was 150 - 300 for next time. Such a relief to be back in the communication link. . . and yes my regular doctor is lovely, he was so upset for me. . . it is such a strangely intimate relationship isn't it? My DP says he always feels a little sidelined, it doesn't help that they label his sperm with my name to avoid confusion!

Yes OAP I am in the borough of Hackney, we are apparently the most deprived in the UK, but I love it . . . I was born here but moved to Australia when I was 7, I've been back and forth since I was 30, but no matter how confused my identity gets at times I'll always be a Hackney girl . . .

OAP - It is shocking isn't it? Apparently it's the karyotype test that takes 3 months. We saw the consultant on the 28th of July and they took DHs blood straight afterwards (one test for his FSH and Testosterone levels and the other to be sent off for a karyotype profile). She said she'd refer him to a Urologist also but we're still waiting for a letter to tell us when that appointment will be.

Preliminary investigations on me have shown no problems (Day 21 bloods 'normal' and two ultrasounds have shown clear tubes - only anomaly was a polyp - first showed healthy looking follicles and second confirmed recent ovulation), so I guess if we do go down the donor route DIUI would be possible. Our Consultant did say that as we would need IVF I will need further tests, but that she didn't want to request those yet until we know where we stand with DH.

I really really want to push for some success with DH first before attempting the donor route. This has all come as such a shock to us both. I am very sensitive about certain things and I freak out about the concept of using a donor. To cut a long story short I'm worried that I would feel violated and wouldn't feel connected to the baby growing inside me, and then have trouble bonding after the birth. I guess we have a long road to travel and some counselling to go through before a donor could be seriously considered .

Sooty - nice to see some in the NHS are bucking the red tape and providing the support deserved .

I understand how you feel glastochick, I have had similar thoughts since the consultant mentioned 'donor egg' yesterday. On the one hand I can see how people are able to dismiss these reservations once the baby arrives, and in fact I think most people would, but these reservations still linger, and need to explored.

During one of our talks DH asked how I'd feel if the tables were turned and it was me who couldn't provide him with a baby without a donor egg perhaps. Somehow my mind has rationalised that, with a donor egg, I'd be growing the baby inside me so would find it easier to see the baby as mine, so to speak. However, if I was in your position I cannot 100% say for certain that I would not have the same reservations you do.

Like you I can understand when people say the moment they meet their baby any reservations they had disappeared. But I'm not sure if I would be able to dismiss these reservations. Sometimes I think I'm coming to terms with the idea, but then I talk to someone and all the reservations come flooding back. Too much is unknown and I don't want to risk rejecting the baby once he / she is born.

Apart from some very personal issues I have, I think it's also uncertainty of the unknown. With DH, I know what he is like, what his good and bad points are, which of his characteristics he has inherited from his father and mother (and will likely pass down a generation), and also, from talking to his mum, what he was like when he was growing up. With a donor, another thing that bugs me is personality traits. What if I wouldn't like the donor in real life? How much more like the donor would the baby be? I know they can find donors based on physical characteristics, but what about personality too? I know there's a big nature vs nurture debate, and some days I think nurture will make a difference. But then I look at my godson who has never had his father in his life (deserted his mum 2 weeks after she got her BFP), and apart from the physical similarity, he is very much is father's son personality wise. One of my very best friends was raised by her step-dad from a very young age. Everyone we know sees him as her Dad, but there are certain traits (some of her more annoying ones according to her mum) which she has inherited from her biological father.

All these may seem insignificant to others, but to me they are very real considerations and I need to come to terms with them before going down the donor route. So while I'm frustrated that it's going to be the end of October before we find out anything for certain, I'm trying to use the time to get my head round everything.

Sorry, bit of an epic post there [shame]

xxx

During one of our talks DH asked how I'd feel if the tables were turned and it was me who couldn't provide him with a baby without a donor egg perhaps. Somehow my mind has rationalised that, with a donor egg, I'd be growing the baby inside me so would find it easier to see the baby as mine, so to speak. However, if I was in your position I cannot 100% say for certain that I would not have the same reservations you do.

Like you I can understand when people say the moment they meet their baby any reservations they had disappeared. But I'm not sure if I would be able to dismiss these reservations. Sometimes I think I'm coming to terms with the idea, but then I talk to someone and all the reservations come flooding back. Too much is unknown and I don't want to risk rejecting the baby once he / she is born.

Apart from some very personal issues I have, I think it's also uncertainty of the unknown. With DH, I know what he is like, what his good and bad points are, which of his characteristics he has inherited from his father and mother (and will likely pass down a generation), and also, from talking to his mum, what he was like when he was growing up. With a donor, another thing that bugs me is personality traits. What if I wouldn't like the donor in real life? How much more like the donor would the baby be? I know they can find donors based on physical characteristics, but what about personality too? I know there's a big nature vs nurture debate, and some days I think nurture will make a difference. But then I look at my godson who has never had his father in his life (deserted his mum 2 weeks after she got her BFP), and apart from the physical similarity, he is very much is father's son personality wise. One of my very best friends was raised by her step-dad from a very young age. Everyone we know sees him as her Dad, but there are certain traits (some of her more annoying ones according to her mum) which she has inherited from her biological father.

All these may seem insignificant to others, but to me they are very real considerations and I need to come to terms with them before going down the donor route. So while I'm frustrated that it's going to be the end of October before we find out anything for certain, I'm trying to use the time to get my head round everything.

Sorry, bit of an epic post there

xxx

Hi all, caught up on the reading. Difficult decisions re donor sperm. I know our clinic fly you out to Spain for the egg collection, fertilization and shoving it back in (can't remember posh word for that bit) parts. So you get a chance to relax by the pool and have a little holiday. It is the only way they can guarantee sperm cos of the regulation changes in the UK.

Right still sitting here twiddling thumbs and waiting for AF!!! Off to yorks to see inlaws on thurs and will be difficult to call clinic in private from up there (have not mentioned fertility problems to them)! Never thought I would be impatient for AF!!

How did your scan go mowmi? My fingers are crossed for you . . .

Hi guys, I really hope you don't mind me crashing your thread but I've only just found you .

To cut a very long story short, I've just had my DS (9 weeks old) through IVF. 5 years ttc, 2 yrs being treated by the crappy NHS doctor who prescribed me clomid when I had blocked tubes , 3 cycles of IVF, first two ended in m/c at 7 wks (twins) and 6 wks (conceived naturally during down regging despite having blocked tubes! ).

Just to say, for those of you coping with very small numbers of eggs/embryos, my DS was the only embryo created on my 3rd cycle and I very nearly didn't have embryo transfer because I was so devastated at how badly the cycle had gone. I then bled at 5 wks, 6wks, 8wks, 10wks, and 12 wks. However, he survived it all, against the odds . . .

Nappyvalley, wanted to say a particular hello to you cos I believe you are at the same clinic as me. They are absolutely fab and I can't praise them highly enough - I hope you have the same positive experience that I did.

Also interested to see a few people on here going for baby number two. I'm already thinking about when I try again as I'm 36 and don't want to wait too long before no 2. I was down at the clinic yesterday introducing my little boy to the staff and have already started talking about when we start again.

Btw, for those of you considering donor I have a couple of friends who have done it (one who had twins last year from donor eggs and one couple who are pregnant with twins from donor embryos). Both of them received alot of support from the Donor Conception Network, so I don't know whether that would be of any use? Donor Conception Network

Anyway, as I said, sorry to crash but I still feel very much part of the IF world and sometimes struggle to relate to others who are mums but who have conceived with ease. It's a journey you never forget. I hope to post more when I start my next cycle - I only started posting on mumsnet when I was 6 mths pg as I just couldn't believe it was actually going to happen until then .

If I can be of any help to anyone please ask - although there seems to be plenty of knowledge on here already so mine might be a little superfluous.

Well, enough of my rambling . . . Best wishes to you all.

Thanks sponge, it's nice to hear a 'hard luck' success story - I have to remind myself sometimes that there is in fact hope - which is why we are all still in treatment.

Thanks sponge. I have found all the staff at The Wessex so professional but friendly. I was blown away by the efficiency and speed with which the blood tests were all done! It is also such a subtle building. I live only a mile from it and never knew it was there!!

Thanks for sharing your story. Now the REAL journey can begin. Hope you are able to get some sleep!!

I feel a bit of a cheat really, as I have a wonderful boy who will be 3 soon, conceived naturally (albeit after 11 cycles) but I am desperate for another and this is our only option. They can't quite work out where the first one came from!!!

Hi everyone,
Thanks for your welcomes, just an update from me, I am going to the clinic (private) on Thursday to have a trial egg transfer and pick up my treatment schedule and prescription for drugs. I am feeling very emotional about it all. DH is very positive and excited but I feel bad about allowing myself to be excited just in case - do you know what I mean. I feel like I have already started with the hormones before I even have, feel very teary and we have got DH's daughter with us for a week so can't really talk to him about it in private. Sorry to have a moan, just had a hard day - hopefully once things start properly I will be feeling better.

The nurses etc. are very nice at the clinic but they talk really fast about everything and are so 'matter of fact' about it, I have written down all my questions to ask them when I go on Thursday, I guess I am just really nervous about it all.

I'm looking forward to getting to know you guys though

Glasto - I'd look into some counselling if I were you - if you are going to ISIS they do have a counsellor there, but I'm sure there is other free resources around. I understand your reservations completely and think I would feel the same. It is such a personal issue for everyone, and you have to get comfortable with your own reasoning rather then someone else's logic. Which I assume a counsellor would do?

Hi Onionlove, yes welcome to the world of [cliche alert] the emotional rollercoaster of IVF, all perfectly normal I'm afraid. I always found I could be perfectly civil to co-workers, strangers and most of my friends during treatment, DH got the worst of it.

Sponge - I waited a 15 months after DD was born before starting treatment again, mainly as I breastfed for over a year and then needed 2 or 3 clear cycles after stopping feeding before my clinic would treat me. Given I had DD at 36 and I am now approaching 39 with two failed cycles behind me this year, I do wonder if I should have jacked in BF at 6 months and cracked on with more IVF asap.....who knows! Have to say I am very impressed with your natural conception with blocked tubes, it is my dearest wish that this will happen to me (despite only having one tube left that is blocked and looks like a badly twisted distended sausage)

Spoke to my clinic today, will start downregging mid Sept, EC scheduled for 31 Oct. Bizarrely seems really close, yet miles away.

Glasto, my DS is the result of Donor sperm, and I have to say DH is completely besotted with him. We did try 9 attempts with DH's sperm and we came to the joint decision that Donor sperm was our only chance to have a baby. I do understand you wanting to try first to have your DH's biological child, but think also of this, my mother was adopted I have no idea about her birth family and which part of me is from that side of my family, but it actually doesn't matter at all, it is not all nature, just as it is not all nuture and there is for the most part a happy balance. Don't dismiss donor sperm as an option, but I would like you try ICSI first. I wish you all the luck in the world and hope that things work out for you. Most clinics should not allow you to go with the donor option without conselling.

Sx

sooty, this is the problem with IVF though - there is hope which we have to cling to, but then there is also the not knowing how long it will take. There were many times in the 5 yrs we were ttc that we wanted to jack it all in - we even seriously considered starting a new life in New Zealand away from all our fertile friends .

Nappyvalley, please tell me you mean 11 menstrual cycles not 11 IVF cycles before you conceived your DS?!

You are so lucky to live so close the the clinic - we are a 75 min drive away, but well worth it still. You are right about their professionalism - and their compassion is incredible too, they were always there with a hug and a box of tissues when I was crying - which was often . I was also impressed at how well they looked after dh, cos he is of course an important part of the story.

I don't think you should feel like a cheat - it's perfectly natural to want a sibling for your little boy and if IVF is the way you need to get that then so be it. Although, I hope you get another miracle before then .

onionlove, writing everything down is definitely the way to go. My consultant always used to have a little joke with me at the list of typed questions I used to turn up with to each appointment, and she would always give me time to note down her answers as she spoke. It's often so much to digest that you just forget it all otherwise. It does all get easier to take in though, once you get used to the jargon.

onlyaphase, really sorry to hear about your two failed cycles. Bf didn't work out for us so I didn't have that decision to make, but it's so difficult to know when to start again. On the one hand I want to enjoy every precious minute of my little boy, knowing he could be my only child, on the other I don't want to wait too long and then regret it. So hard.

As for the blocked tubes and natural conception - hmm, was a bit of a miracle . We had a HyCoSy done to check my tubes and not one little bit of dye escaped through them. However, after the natural conception 10 months later I then had a lap and dye. The consultant who performed the op said that my left tube was blocked completely but my right tube had the tiniest tiniest little hole in it that the embryo had somehow managed to squeeze through. To think it had such an incredible journey only for me to m/c was so devastating. He said he was staggered that I had got pg naturally and shouldn't bank on it ever happening again, which I haven't . But you always hope don't you . . .

soosy, your post was v interesting. Dh and I haven't ruled out using donor eggs if I get too old to conceive a sibling from mine so your words really gave me food for thought, thank you.

Sponge I have heard that having the lap & dye can clear the tubes a bit and you are quite fertile following it. They used to use it as part of fertility treatment calling it having your tubes blown!

Nappy If you had one child naturally the chances of you having another with help is really good so good luck.

Sooty I know what you mean about wanting to know it will happen, even if it will take several attempts, it is the fear of it not happening that is much greater.

Good news about starting treatment OAP. I know what you mean about age, but I had DS when I was 35 and bf until he was 7months, did next cycle of IVF when he was 9 months, had chem pg, and nothing since. So I don't really think that starting earlier makes much difference, and as far as I understand it as long as you are producing embryos then it's likely to happen! Good luck.

Move going slowly cannot believe that we will be leaving on the 1st, we have been here for 11 years, but it is too small with DS, although hugely easy for the clinic as I can walk to it, now I'll have to come into London.

Have a fab evening, going to watch who do you think you are? which will widen the Donor, Nature/Nuture debate!

Sx

soosy, yes I've heard of a couple of people getting pg immediately after a lap and dye. Unfortunately, my natural conception was before my lap and dye and nothing happened afterwards .

The consultant said both my tubes were very badly damaged and the conception was inexplicable.

Where are you moving to?

Enjoy your telly!

evening ladies, will need to be quick as I should be working!
scan didn't go great, follicles are really small again - abandon cycle was mentioned again so not feeling particularly good about it!
FSH dose has been doubled and have a another scan tomorrow, if no real improvement we're going to stop and next time kick off with a larger dose. All feels a bit hopeless and feeling very teary. they are really surprised at how resistant my ovaries are to the drugs - loads of folicles but just not growing.
I'll catch up properly over the weekend - I'm sure this cycle will be all over by then!
Sponge - thanks for you positive post!

x

mowmi, so sorry to hear about the lack of response. How devastating for you and dh. Is this your 2nd cycle?

Not surprised you are feeling teary. It's all so bloody unpredictable isn't it .

Mowmi I am sorry to hear your news, I hope that the increased drugs do their stuff. You are entitled to a full blown bout of tears, it is all so stressful and at the beginning of the cycle everything is so positive, so it seems so dreadful that things don't go as expected. Good Luck tomorrow. S x

We are moving to Berkshire, not a million miles away, DH has to commute, but enough to get a house we can swing a terrier in! (DS and I are desperate for a pooch, cannot have one here, no garden.)

Sx

mowmi, I am sorry to hear about your scan. I'm hoping todays goes better . . . fingers crossed your just having a 'sunday' start to your cycle . .. .

soosy, we live in Berkshire - Wokingham to be precise! Whereabouts are you moving to?