POAS: With only the IC in stock...someone help us 🤣

[FfayeN]

You asked for it......😘

@FfayeN oh for sure I might even pull out my fail safe so it's a extra quickie 😂 xx

I've had some red blood now so fingers crossed it will all start by itself today or over the next few days.

@usedtolovenaps Sure, share away :)

@TheBirdintheCave I hope so so you can have your body natural deal with it 🥰.

@usedtolovenaps I would find that useful hun even if I don't agree with everything I like to look at all the opinions 🥰 xxx

@TheBirdintheCave okay :)

• Aspirin. After two losses, I wanted to take it and checked with the dr I know. I was told to not do this as it could only cause problems if I took it without needing it. Unfortunately, I didn't ask what problems exactly it would cause or if the person was just cautious. I also mentioned aspirin to a midwife I know and she also wasn't keen on me taking it. However, I have seen on here that people were told by other medical professionals that it is okay to take it. One of the girls here (who?) uploaded a pic from a book some time where it was explained why it is bad to take aspirin when you don't need. If that person reads this, maybe they could do it again. But it seems there's no agreed opinion on this.
• Two back-to-back losses. Should I be worried now that something is really wrong with my body/eggs? No, the advice was 'keep on trying until you get a good embryo'. Early losses often happen due to chromosomal abnormalities, which is just shit luck. After two I was told to not read too much into it and just continue trying. NHS won't see anyone in recurrent m/c clinic after two losses but that is because statistically, a lot of those people will have a baby with the following pregnancy.
• Progesterone. Wanted progesterone when tested positive for the third time, was told to not even bother as no evidence it helps UNLESS you had at least one loss and are bleeding. Otherwise, it won't do anything. Again, partially because early losses happen due to chromosomal abnormalities so progesterone can't do anything.
• Genetic testing on miscarried embryos - happens after a third loss. Unless it's a later loss.
• Natural killer cells. This is the most controversial one 😣Really sorry if this offends anyone, I am just repeating. I was told to not fall for NK testing as there is an absolute lack of evidence and there's now research popping up to say that high NK cell levels are good for implantation. There are couple places in England where NHS fund NK cell testing + meds (at least one of them run by a dr who does it privately as well) but essentially 99% of NHS doesn't due to there not being solid evidence. If you take a biopsy sample from two different parts of the uterus, you will likely get two very different result. If you take a biopsy in two different cycles, you will get a completely different result each time. They said if there was enough supporting evidence, it would be offered across all of the NHS. Also, some people who had 4-5 losses and were told NK cells were the issue and they would not conceive successfully without NK cell treatment, went on to have successful pregnancies without them. Had they listened and got the treatment for NK cells, they would've thought that was the reason they were able to go full term. From experience - if you want a dr to go mad, ask them about NK cells.
• Essentially, some people conceive successfully after 4-5 etc losses without changing anything. I personally know people who had 4 back to back losses and ended up having children.
• If people can test privately, they need to test folic acid and vit D levels, also important to see if blood clotting disorders or thyroid could be the issue. Some NHS trusts will do this testing after two losses, some will do after three. After three, NHS does some genetic testing to see if the affected woman has some issues that could cause m/c but could be helped with medication.
• Many people think that doing/taking X helped them have a baby but they say it's often just a coincidence because people just happened to have a good embryo (good egg/sperm) that month and would have likely had a good outcome even if they hadn't done/taken thing X.

I did get tested for thyroid and blood clotting so knew this wasn't an issue. The advice was really just to keep on doing it until we get a good embryo. Personally, this all calmed me down at the time as I saw back-to-back losses as a result of a genetic error, which was bad luck but doesn't mean it would keep happening all the time if that makes sense.

I hope this gives at least some comfort to people and I am really sorry if it doesn't.

@usedtolovenaps That's really helpful thanks :D I think our current plan is to have my husband frag tested and see if I can get a full blood count test on the NHS to look for things like thyroid etc. In the mean time we'll keep trying but be prepared for IVF in case we're told husband's frag is too high.

@TheBirdintheCave I'm glad you found it helpful ❤

@usedtolovenaps thanks for sharing❤️ that makes a lot of sense. The aspirin is a tricky one and I've had to just refer people to nice guidelines where they advise not to use it from bfp unless indicated. Unfortunately I am one if the ones who have to use it ..damn blood clots

@TheBirdintheCave I’m so so sorry to hear your update - it makes me want to scream.
Life can be so shitty and unfair!
I hope things can start happening naturally so you don’t have to wait ages for treatment.
Thinking of you - it’s such a terrible thing to have to go through xxx

@TheBirdintheCave very sorry for your update hun ☹️☹️ gutted for you.

If it’s any consolation. I have a number of friends with two back to back mmc who have gone on to have healthy children after. 2 or 3 healthy children actually and not more losses.
It CAN be just shit luck and just waiting for a good embryo like @@lovenaps said. But equally it’s shit and even after one you feel like wtf is wrong with me I get that.

Hopefully your body is perhaps starting the process itself.

I've done a natural mc. Had two lots of medical management tablets. And ERPC surgery. So all options actually.
If it doesn’t happen naturally I would choose ERPC surgery for myself again personally.

I'm so sorry @TheBirdintheCave. It is absolutely not fair at all.

With regards to the two MMC- this is what happened to me, two in a row, and every doctor put it down to bad luck. This is horrible to hear though, as you feel powerless. I did go to a private gynaecologist after the second one as I wanted to just do something and he prescribed aspirin from BFP and progesterone, even though all my tests came back clear for clotting disorders. Who knows if it made a difference but it certainly did to my mindset.

Also, my second MMC was found at 9 weeks with no development beyond 7w4d. I opted for medical management at home. I actually found it far easier than the first, maybe because I knew what to expect, who knows. I got codeine from the hospital which may have helped, and I could plan exactly when to take the pills. I saw absolutely nothing. I think at this stage they are still super tiny ❤️

@theblueflowers would you mind me asking if you are able to relax a bit more now? Asking as we are at the same/similar stages ❤

@usedtolovenaps I do think after the 12 week scan I have chilled out a little bit, but i'm still checking every time I go to the loo. The biggest trigger for me has been telling people. For some reason, when I tell someone, I immediately panic for the rest of the day. I think maybe it's because it would be another person to tell if it went wrong?

How are you getting on, lovely?

@theblueflowers Did you look for a specialist in recurrent miscarriage? Or was it a regular gynaecologist?

Also, how funny that our second ones were identical! Baby measured 1.2cm so yeah still teeny tiny... I'm really not sure what to do re surgery vs tablets.

And, fun fact, I am immune to codeine 😂🤷🏻‍♀️ It just makes me a little dizzy.

@theblueflowers I think you hit the nail right on the head contemplating why you find telling people stressful. I have similar feelings so we have not told anyone and probably won't until 20 week scan which feels ages away!
I initially calmed down after the 12w scan but then the anxiety started building up again because I know second trimester loss would be harder to deal with in many ways and 'bad luck with egg/sperm' wouldn't work for me in this case.
It's been over two weeks since the scan so I keep wondering if everything is still okay and keep asking poor DH for reassurance. Yesterday I almost booked a private scan last minute but DH talked me out of it. Will probably get one before the 20week one though.
Glad to know you are getting on okay and managed to relax a bit after the 12 week scan ❤

@Indianna2006 I really hope that's the end of our bad luck now.

@TheBirdintheCave this is so so personal and absolutely down to people but I will say what I was told with missed m/c by the midwife I know. She advised to try pills first if things don't happen naturally because, as she said, surgery is still an invasive procedure which has its own risks at the end of the day. Saying that, surgery is often the right choice for many people e.g. mental reasons and it's routinely done, I would imagine THOUSANDS of them are done in the UK each year and complications must be rare ❤

@TheBirdintheCave I'm not sure this will help but I can let you know my experiences! I went with the surgical route for both of my MMC because I just couldn't face the tablets and waiting for things to happen. The surgery took about ten minutes and I was able to go home a few hours later (I opted to be out to sleep instead of sedated). Both bubs were sent for testing and both came back for Turner's syndrome. The results took about a month to come back. Due to recurrent miscarriages I was referred to the RMC clinic at the hospital and spoke with a specialist there (every maternity hospital should have a fertility specialist working there that you can be referred to). Both myself and my partner were then sent for karyotyping at great ormond street hospital and those results took about three months to come back. So definitely ask your EPU to refer you to the services at your hospital!

In regards to the surgery, even the tablets come with risks of retained products of conception etc that would then require either a, antibiotics and waiting or b, ERPC. So that's why we went straight for surgery both times. Since then we've had two healthy babies so it hasn't affected fertility and actually they said because your cervix is dilated during the operation and you're completely cleaned out there's a higher chance of conception in some cases following the surgery (we waited a few months before trying again but fell first cycle and he's now a happy, bossy three year old).

This is such a tough, shitty time for you and I'm so incredibly sorry you are going through this x

@TheBirdintheCave for full clarity, our second MMC was our 7th miscarriage and I still had to push to be referred to the services.

I second what @Bluemilan said with regards to fertility. 'Scratching' from D&C would cause release of cytokines which could aid implantation in the following cycle.
@Bluemilan so sorry you had to go through so many losses 😥and it's crazy you still had to push! Were you prescribed anything for your two successful pregnancies?

@TheBirdintheCave Hey, so just in reply to you earlier. At 36 you're still a lot longer than me ( I'm 40 on Monday). I sought a lot of advice from a close friend of mine who is a consultant in IVF. She told me fertility definitely does not 'drop off a cliff' like we are sometimes led to believe when we get a bit older. @bunnykins123 is right. I conceived this PG straight after my MC. I went down the surgical route ( where u are awake but still aware of the procedure), I personally found the physical recovery a lot quicker than tablets ( took ages for everything to clear after the tablets) but AF arrived 2 weeks after surgical. I'd also heard it can act like a 'scratch' to the lining and help with implantation. I wanted to get my first AF though and to let a good lining build up again. If you have a decent GP they should do u a full blood count, shouldn't be an issue. Make sure you get a copy of the results as in my experience they were like ' oh nothing is abnormal' but when I went through them with my acupuncture fertility lady, my Vitd level although 'normal' was borderline and vitd needs to be high for fertility ( 100 something or other off the top of my head). My folic acid level tests hadn't been processed. In relation to the aspirin I took it from around 6/6.5 weeks. I did this as also heard it can affect implantation. I was never advised to take it but my midwife said it wouldn't hurt, also my red blood cell count was super high and that can apparently indicate 'sticky blood'. I take 75mg so a tiny dose. I told my consultant at 16 weeks and she said it was fine to continue with it. With this PG and in the run up i decided to throw everything at it...I read it starts with the egg, got a load of recommended supplements, I also tried fertility acupuncture and reflexology 😅. The reflexology was super relaxing so defo recommend that! Loved the acupuncture as well tbh. It's used to help improve egg quality and she was really helpful in terms of diet etc ( if you decide to look into this make sure u see a fertility acupuncturist). Hope this helps xx

@usedtolovenaps at the time it was because I hadn't technically had three early miscarriages consecutively, thankfully they have changed that rule now. I say technically because we had a stillbirth at 24 weeks in between and they weren't sure if that reset things but thankfully we saw a fantastic consultant who referred us for all the necessary tests immediately x

@Bluemilan you have been through so much 😥

Well now we wait 😬🤞🏼 I’ve slept absolutely awful the last few days though did manage to get enough sleep to temp this morning had to discount the previous 2 as I was up every couple of hours coughing my guts up 🤦🏼‍♀️ I’m just hoping I manage to sleep well enough to see a rise tomorrow 🤞🏼if I do O today we’ve managed to do -1 -3 -5 I don’t think I’ve got enough energy to muster another go today so that will have to do. I’m really wondering if this might be a false start to O though since I’m still bleeding and when we were dtd it definitely felt like I was getting a cervix bashing so I’m guessing it’s low but I am CD12 today and I have O that early in a cycle before I think I’ll carry on with the opk unless bbt confirms O in a few days

@mummatara Hoorah! :)