Bus 9 - Donkey Cart departing soon, all aboard with ivf, pcos, endo, sub/unexplained fertility jump on

[Marvellouslymadmum]

New thread 😊😊

Ahhhhh I love Toby! Tell me everything about him, what’s it been like? How have you coped with work and leaving him? How old? What is he? I’m tempted to bite the bullet and get a dog, I said it again today. I can’t move really, we can and can’t. But we’re about to hand over £12k roughly for two rounds to the Lister, plus £4k in meds, so I think it makes sense to stay here in our jobs and save as much as we can through autumn/winter/spring. I’m worried we’ll get a dog and I’ll regret it because I can’t be here for a dog when we go for EC etc, and I don’t know how old they have to be before you can get them cared for if you go away for a few days. we don’t really have support in London.

If this next transfer fails I’ll consider looking for a new job I think. I should be doing that anyway tbh, a permanently remote one so we’re free to move. Might never happen lol.

Yeah, we really can never be sure it’ll work even with the BFP. Infertility is so hard, I wish I didn’t care as much as I do. It’s a massive lottery. I feel like my age isn’t helping, people in their mid 30s seem to get more first time bfps with ivf maybe? I’ve started a thread on infertility with people sharing their long histories of failed transfers that worked out in a baby in the end. It’s the only thing keeping me going, knowing there’s still a glimmer of hope.

Two fertilised is great, and you know you can get pregnant now, so that’s something even if it doesn’t feel much, at least you know these embryos might have a chance. Are you at the Lister again?

Forgot to @Misty84 in my dog excitement

@Misty84 not "happy" that you're back BUT we're here for you, no matter what happens.
I bet Toby is keeping you busy, I had a boxer and my god, stress!
@thislittlebird can you tell me a little bit more about the other fertility thread please?

Haha I’m loving the dog enthusiasm @thislittlebird! He is a cavapoo, we got him when he was 3.5months old. He’s now 10 months. It’s something we’ve always wanted and talked about, but it never seemed like the right time, however we were so miserable that we decided to bite the bullet and do it. It’s no replacement for a baby but it gave us a focus, a new life in our home, and obviously we treat him like he is our actual child! He’s been a huge boost to us and especially helped my partner who works from home. We even took him to France on holiday! His enthusiasm enhances every experience for us. If you can make it work then I would do it. My brother came to look after him during EC yesterday. There’s also an app called Rover that you can use for a puppy/dog sitter.

So we made that change in our lives. We also got engaged! And sold my flat. Currently in a chain of 7(!), hoping to move into our new house soon. I got sick of feeling stuck and that everything in my life revolves around my inability to have a baby. So ANY positive changes you can make to feel like you are moving forwards, I would def recommend doing.

Looking for a permanent remote job sounds like a good idea.
I know how hard it is to get swamped in all this though😖 and just because I’m talking positively now definitely doesn’t mean I always feel like this! It’s really tough and I’ve distanced myself from a few pregnant friends. Absolutely can’t stand to be around them, I can’t pretend to act happy for their situation when I’m so sad for mine.

Yes this current cycle is at the Lister again, they treat you so well on EC day, it’s actually quite nice! I had a whole feast while recovering in my room! And I’m so delighted that 2 eggs fertilised, there’s a chance!!

You seem wisened up about what it’s going to cost.

So why will next time be a double transfer for you and not one at a time again?

@ShirleyValentineManc It was a steep learning curve but worth it now! Thanks for your kind words ❤️

@thislittlebird I forgot to say that thread sounds great, what’s it called?

@Misty84 That's so strange, this morning I said to my dh that we need to go and visit his cousin who has a cavapoo to see if I'm allergic. I don't know anyone else with one. I think I was ok with my sister's shih tzu but am definitely allergic to my mum's french bulldog. If I get one I'll likely end up with a small poodle because of the coat.

I mostly wfh so I do think might like the company, just worried they'll make me go in more come September. I'm just scared of the initial puppy phase and training, worried I'll cock up the training or we'll be that house with a dog that barks constantly whenever we go out. The focus might be good, what's the dog routine like? Rover tip is good to know, I do have a friend who would look after a dog, with good notice.

Congrats on getting engaged! That's great, a nice bit of happy news in amongst the crap. Where are you moving to? I think you were in SW London before.

I'm distanced from most people with babies/toddlers at this stage. It's not fun, but I don't know what to do. They'll be having more soon, I'm sure.

I'm sort of looking forward to the post-EC meal lol. What food do you get?

Two embryos next time because we only get 3 funded transfers on the nhs. Don't see the point in paying them £1500 when we could use that money for meds with private care. I might have been more worried about transferring two before, but with two failed transfers it feels less risky. I'm also doing an expensive microbiome test this month, need to do a couple of swabs tomorrow and send it off for analysis. Got our follow up next week where I'll ask to transfer two and for more progesterone this time (mine was low in the July transfer) and then GP the next day, I'm going to ask for vitamin deficiency and thrombophilia tests and see what they say.

Here's the link to the thread I started in Infertility, I started it after my first failed transfer: www.mumsnet.com/talk/infertility/4541266-how-many-transfers-did-it-take-you-after-the-first-failed?reply=119288334

@Misty84 @thislittlebird we got an African pygmy hedgehog as he's hypoallergenic and nocturnal so it's OK when we're out at work! Little bugger did something something his eye and they're prome to losing then so worries sick, think I project not being able to have a baby onto the prickle baby 😂
We just had failed ivf cycle which was f*Ed over by me getting covid despite being careful, was off work and feeling so shitty 4 weeks, had egg collection but eggs buggered and only embryo fragmented and didn't grow right.

I've found meds and cbt really helpful as have anananxidisorder- this journey really messes the it and I'm a neonatal nurse so I won't stop worrying at all either all pregnancy ! (If we get there).

@ShirleyValentineManc I'm so glad you're on the mend! Scary stuff, some private clinics to save money don't do as many bloods and scans and that worries me as ohss can end up stopping egg retrieval. Sounds like it'll be your only retrieval as you've got enough embryos for 2 football teams plus the reserve team and line marshalls🙃

Oh yes a poodle would be a great choice for the coat @thislittlebird, plus they’re one of the most intelligent breeds so I think you’ll manage training! Very quick to learn.
Toby doesn’t shed whatsoever, it’s amazing. It’s why I wanted poodle mixed in! As for his routine, he goes to doggy daycare a couple of mornings a week for socialising, otherwise fits easily into what we do. We took him to a puppy training class when we first got him which was very helpful!

Ah I understand why you’re transferring both now. Makes sense. It’s sad to think you won’t have faith due to previous transfers☹️ It feels dangerous to get our hopes up doesn’t it. I’m glad you’ve started that group so that you can read positive stories from women who’ve been in the same position. I think it’s important to have something to relate to.
Similarly, I’m on a Facebook group for people with low amh who only get 1 or 2 eggs per cycle, so the success stories there are a source of comfort for me.
What is a microbiome test??

I had immunology testing done after the MC and guess what, I have abnormally high NK (natural killer) cells. Of course I bloody do!🙄 So I’m on medication for that. And my partner had a varicocele removed because we don’t know what’s caused the high dna fragmentation and anti sperm antibodies. It’s a minefield!!!

@kerrym87 Your hedgehog sounds very cute, I think you should attach a photo!🙏
Thats so crap about Covid messing up your ivf cycle, I’m so sorry!! Gutting. Was it your first? What is your plan now?

@kerrym87 hedgehog sounds very cute! Photos are welcome!

@Misty84 how is his barking? I worry about that with poodles. Cavapoos might not be so bad. Can I ask, is doggy daycare expensive? Cost is another worry of getting a dog. The other one is space for a crate, bed etc. I would definitely do puppy training classes. I need to find someone with a poodle to make sure I’m ok with them, but I think I am, I don’t mind paying for the grooming but I wouldn’t like lots of shedding like with other breeds.

Yeah other women’s stories keep me going, but I can’t say I’m reassured this will work at this stage. I’m going to look into getting DH’s embolised too, not sure what else to do.

Microbiome is testing the mix of bacteria flora and fauna. I’ve had to do a menstrual blood sample, then vaginal swabs and will send it off for analysis this week.

NK cells is a funny one. I may well have them, I have immune issues, but the only “fix” is taking prednisolone I think, which I’m expecting I might need at some stage anyway so I don’t see the point in having the test.

@Misty84 it was our second cycle, got one more nhs round then considering 2 more private if we can afford it with cost of everything going up ....
And here's some hedgie spam....although little bugger has hurt his eye and its been £ 165 , 2 vet visits and 3 medications (luckily we have insurance) and trying to get eyedrops in an animal that curls up is fun😂

Clinic called this morning. Both embryos have developed although at a slower speed than they would like to see.

I am not going to transfer today, I am going to wait until day 5 (Sat) to see if they reach blastocyst stage. If they don’t reach blastocyst stage in the lab then they won’t in the uterus, so I don’t want to transfer and endure a two week wait for no reason. I would prefer to know sooner rather than later if they’re not viable.

The clinic also discovered a polyp on my uterine lining which puts implantation at risk (honestly, the list of things wrong with us just keeps on growing!!!) so ideally I would have that removed before transfer.

Therefore, if I have a very strong embryo by Sat then they will freeze it, I’ll have the polyp removed and then transfer.

If the embryo is of average quality then it may not survive the freezing and thawing process therefore it’s best to just transfer and hope for the best.

So that’s where we’re up to! For now just hoping our little embryos continue to develop and stay in the game 🤞🤞

@thislittlebird Do you mean barking if he is left? We just practised from early age leaving for a few mins at a time and gradually building up. Now he just goes to sleep! He’s a very good dog, a breeze really. We used a crate for first week then stopped. My partner bought all kinds of fancy beds but he just prefers to sleep on the floor! Doggy daycare is about £25 for a half day I think, and maybe £40 for full? Obviously varies depending on where you are. He’s added so much love to our life.

I take hydroxychloroquine for my NK cells. No idea if it’s doing anything but I’ve got it free on the nhs so might as well take it!
Hope everything goes ok with your tests. Positive stories are a strange one aren’t they- reassuring in some ways but also frustrating that we’re not one of them yet.

@kerrym87 OMG your hedgehog is the cutest!! I can’t believe you actually have that as a pet, so adorable!!
Honestly I’m so envious of people who get funded cycles (although there’s no point being envious until there’s success I guess!!) We could only afford 2 private so this is our last roll of the dice.

I’m joining an adoption webinar tonight. Never thought I’d say that but I know I want to become a parent somehow and this may have to be our next route. Still very much at the early researching stage though.

Just been informed that polyp removal costs £2300 with an upfront overpayment of £3850.
Absolute jokers.

@Misty84 omg that's so expensive. When do you have to have it done? I'd say you'll get it done elsewhere if that's an option and shop around? A friend on another thread got a varicocele embolisation for 1200 vs the original 6000 she was quoted by Ramsay.

I don't understand the overpayment at all.

@kerrym87 love the hedgie spam! the pic with the green background looks like hedgie modelling! So is that 165 the excess with the insurance? I'd definitely get insurance with a pet.

@Misty84 Glad both have developed, even if a bit slow. @CycleGirl20 on this thread had a slow one but it worked for her!

How many cycles have you paid the Lister for this time? The polyp is super annoying.

Yeah, one of the dog things I'm worried about is what happens if we get one that hates being left alone, and it barks whenever we leave and that causes more stress. How long did it take to get from leaving him for a few minutes to him being ok? He sounds like the dream and I know I won't be as lucky but your dog story is making me consider it more. I'm scared of all the poo collection but I guess you get used to it. I would definitely want to try to use the crate if we can, with eventually travelling to Cornwall in mind. £25 half day isn't awful. I'm trying to convince myself I'll cope with a dog if we get one.

Did you go to your GP and ask for it with your NK results? I need to think about what they'll do because funds will be limited once our nhs round is done and we're into private.

I was going to ask if you had back up plans for this not working. An adoption webinar sounds great! I think we kinda ruled it out for us recently, for now anyway.

@Misty84 so sorry to hear of your loss. Loving Toby! I do dog boarding and day care and cavapoos are the only poodle cross I actually like!

@kerrym87 sorry to hear of your latest cycle woes

@ShirleyValentineManc sorry to hear about OHSS traumas - I hope ot all works out in the end! I'm 1 of the low ovarian reserve people and one of my cycles they only got 1 egg!

Complete miscarriage at 6 weeks for us. I started spotting Wednesday last week. Heavy bleeding and clotting on Sunday. Had a scan at early pregnancy unit today and they confirmed negative pregnancy test and uterus now empty. We are taking g the positive from this . . . We now know we can get pregnant, so I've ordered a bunch of ovulation kits and pregnancy tests and we'll try again.

The overpayment is apparently to cover any other investigations or complications. Will DEFINITELY shop around. Was hoping it would be less than a grand…

I paid for two cycles with the Lister @thislittlebird. They treat you extremely well on egg retrieval day! I loved having all those food choices!

After the MC I was referred to an NHS miscarriage clinic (because it was late to happen so they wanted to investigate). I’m grateful to them for that.

Do you live in flats, is that why you’re worried about barking? I’m not sure how long it took us because we didn’t do it for ages as didn’t need to, and then it was just a short time. He gets used to it quickly. We put him in the safest room and have a camera on him for reassurance. He’s fine on buses, trains, tubes. Sits on the backseat in the car with a harness. Great in cafes, restaurants, pubs etc! Loves everyone! Do it do it!!!😉😉😉

Im definitely not sold on adoption (the average age is 11!!!!🥺) but thought no harm on finding out a bit more. I know I want to be a mum somehow even though it might not take the path that I always assumed.

Oh god @MIW01 I am SO SORRY. It is so cruel to have blissful happiness and then have it snatched away. You’re doing well to take positives. Really am thinking of you. I was a bundle of nerves throughout my 10 week pregnancy, never relaxed and won’t again if it happens. How long have you been on this TTC journey in total now? It’s 3 years 1 month for us. So so sorry again🌺xx

@MIW01 I’m sorry to hear about the loss, but glad you can take the positives from it. Not knowing if you can get pregnant is a big mental hurdle for me, so I’m glad you can take that away from it all.

Interesting what you said about cavapoos because I’ve wondered if they’re more chilled because they’re half KCC. I would like one but I absolutely need it to be as low shedding as possible with a curly coat and I worry the mixes won’t be as near to a poodle coat as I’d like. I’m guessing you have a lot of experience so can I ask your thoughts on bichons vs poodles? I wouldn’t mind a poodle mix but the coat unpredictability is worries me and I think these are realistically the only dogs I’ll be able to have, but I’m worried a poodle might be too much for me as a new dog owner. I’ve had dogs growing up, but never my own. My husband has never had one.

@Misty84 how do they even do it? It annoys me how expensive it all is and then the overpayment is just a cheek tbh.

We're going to pay for two at the Lister too, when we get there. What sort of food is it? I like the sound of it lol.

No, we live in a terraces with gardens that back on. There's a dog behind us somewhere that was crying, barking, howling for hours recently and it was so annoying and loud. I think it was when the owner went out.

I am certainly considering it with your experience being positive. I worry it won't be the same with a straight up poodle, but I hope so. As I said up there, my fear is a poodle will be too clever for us first timers lolol.

Average age is 11? Wow, that's crazy but glad you're looking into it. I think with my own background being a little unusual/difficult it might not be a good choice for me, and I don't think dh has the drive to do it, not sure I do either, feeling a bit old already tbh. We may resign ourselves to being childless eventually.

Thank you @Misty84 and @thislittlebird obviously it's not the outcome we wanted but we know we can get pregnant so we are looking forward to when it happens again for us and will do all we can to ensure it sticks but I doubt we'll be as excited as last time after this.

Dogs wise, I wouldn't generally recommend poodle crosses as poodles are high energy dogs that require a lot of physical and mental stimulation. In general, the more intelligent a dog is, the more challenging it is. I like cavapoos because the King Charles temperament mellows them out a lot and the ones I know don't shed. I've only met one BichonXPoodle and not a fan tbh. But then I'd never choose anything Poodle myself so I'm biased! I have a golden retriever and a chihuahua.

@MIW01 i would feel the same, it’s a massive step knowing it can work for you! Fingers crossed for next time.

yeah that’s my fear tbh, that a very smart dog will be too much for us newbs. I can’t have any dog unfortunately or I’d select on easygoingness over coat. Couldn’t have a lab or gr or similar because the hair is too much and they’re a bit big for me. I had three chihuahuas when I was young and became allergic to the coats at some stage. Also had yorkie x dachshunds and I loved them but again, I’m allergic now. I’ve have had all sorts of dogs as a kid, including a poodle but she was very old.

What’s your thoughts on bichons? I’m not really into white dogs but I’ll take a white dog who is easier than a coloured one that’s more stressful.

Calling the GP this morn to see if we can get the op done on the NHS, obviously it’ll be too late for this cycle though unless we’re able to freeze.

@MIW01 It’s a good attitude and yes you CAN get pregnant! Big positive. That’s not to take away from your loss and grief though. ❤️

@thislittlebird Thats annoying about the neighbours dog barking. Its definitely a big decision especially with your allergies to consider too. Researching it as much as possible is a good way to go.

Speaking of research, apologies I gave some misinformation yesterday when I said average adoption age was 11. I’d got a bit confused with all my emails from various companies, and that was actually a private foster placement company. So ignore me!!

Had the webinar with Adoption UK yesterday and the average age is 3.5years. But there’s more adopters than adoptees!!! And everyone wants the same thing…a little baby😔 The kids that have a hard time being placed are ethnic minorities, special educational needs and sibling groups.
It didn’t make me optimistic about the idea, it scared me to be honest😔 The reality is these are school age children who have had a very traumatic start in life, they come with social and emotional problems, and in this country they’re not allowed any face to face contact with their birth parents until 18yrs old. Therefore so tough for them, such a complex sense of identity and belonging. So many issues. Not sure we are strong enough for that. Sigh.
I HATE it when people say “Why don’t you just adopt?” like it’s the easiest thing in the world, a simple solution. No fucking clue.

Every hope resting with our 2 embryos in the lab that have hopefully survived the last 24hrs 🙏

@thislittlebird I keep forgetting to answer your question about the Lister food. I had soup of the day, salmon and cream cheese sourdough sandwich with side salad and crisps, roast chicken caprese salad, cheese and crackers with celery and grapes, white choc chip cookies, orange juice, tea and coffee. Basically ordered as much as I could considering it’s all included 🤣🤣.