Bus 9 - Donkey Cart departing soon, all aboard with ivf, pcos, endo, sub/unexplained fertility jump on

[Marvellouslymadmum]

New thread 😊😊

@Misty84 there’s been a lot of puppy thoughts and worry!

@Sunbird24 heavily pregnant buyers is very annoying, I’d hate it. We cannot escape the pregnant ones.

I couldn’t stand my counsellor tbh. Felt like I was talking to a work experience kid, she kept asking what I thought about things and then saying “that’s understandable” in response, like an understanding bot. Very poor quality. The clinic told me to use the counselling after my recent failure and I had to laugh. It does nothing but waste an hour of my time talking to a stranger who, frankly, doesn’t seem to want to be on the call. The only thing she did do of use was put a note on my file about me having anxiety so they’d arrange a sedative for transfer.

@kerrym87 I’ve been really lucky never to have been in an abusive relationship but most of my family have, my family have various issues which I think could count against us. I don’t want to be judged by strangers and rejected again, and I don’t think I have it in me to provide the support they would need. Just adopt, they cry! As if it’s that easy. 🙄

I might get one of those vasectomy cool packs for dh 👀

@Misty84 so has the varicocele made no difference to the sperm quality? That’s frustrating. I think with my dh it could be age, he seems to age a bit faster than I do, but that’s just a theory. But your dh is younger, right?

@Alexis7890 welcome! I think we’re all at various stages but very much still in the trenches. Letrozole didn’t work for me either but it does work for some women.

@thislittlebird my counsellor is fantastic, very knowledgeable and helps me figure out coping strategies, be kind to myself and brings me back down to earth a bit, not all are so good though

@kerrym87 Is a vasectomy cooling pad essentially just a cold pad? Because we have one of those in the freezer which my OH uses for sports injuries, maybe I should suggest he puts it on his special area for an hour a day?

@Alexis7890 I’ve taken a lot of supplements for a few years. R-lipoic acid, Ubiquinol, Vit E, Vit D, NAC, Naturelo prenatal and Omega 3. Partner takes Ubiquinol, Vit C and Proxeed. Sooo bored of it but don’t feel like I can stop until we have success! I used ‘It starts with the egg’ (a book) as a guide.

@thislittlebird Yes he’s only 32🙄 Hence for so long we mistakenly assumed he was fine especially with normal SA result. Would never be that naive if I had my time again, wish we’d paid for defrag test right from the beginning. But we’re all wiser with hindsight! They said removing the varicocele MIGHT make a difference. Well, it hasn’t. ☹️

Wondering whether to try Chinese medicine next?!? Anyone tried or considered it?

@kerrym87 your counsellor sounds great, I wish mine was decent :/

Private will give us a counselling session or two, I’ll try theirs out if we get there.

@Misty84 Maybe I’ll just stick a cool pack on DH’s groin before we dtd 😭

Yeah 32 seems like it would be fine for a man but we live and learn. We did do a frag test before we started because we knew he had motility issues, but his frag actually isn’t bad, they just don’t like to swim the lazy shites.

I’ve asked the consultant to refer us to an andrologist and he said that’s fine. We had a call today, he agreed we can transfer the last two together, and I will have my progesterone tested and take more progesterone.

I’ve got some info on Chinese herbs called men’s treasure in my house, the acupuncturist gave us the info but we never pursued it.

@kerrym87 @Misty84 @thislittlebird Im seeing our consultant on Tuesday to see if this dosage of letrozole has worked so I think I’ll ask him then if a dna fragmentation test would be worthwhile. My husband is 43 now so not sure if age is a factor? They won’t talk much about him as they are focussed on me saying there’s no point focussing on the poor morphology if I don’t even ovulate but would be good to focus on both I think! I’ve only been taking folic acid and inositol, I did ask the doctors if there was anything worth taking and got looked at like I was asking the most ridiculous question ever and to just have faith in them.

@Alexis7890 be aware that if it's NHS then lots of them will say DNA frag isn't recommended. They don't do the test and you'd have to go private for it. I agree, focus on both. What's your age? My husband is 40 and we've been trying for 3 years, he's had problems all that time. I think age impacts some men more than others tbh.

Get your DH to take impryl, look into others too, maybe omega 369 and ubiquinol. Mine took them and did increase his morphology, but our main issue is motility. That also increased a bit, but it seems to fluctuate.

@thislittlebird we are through the nhs but the nhs system here uses a private clinic so the doctors we see are part time nhs and part time private so they would be able to do it for us for £465. Our consultant is very (sometimes brutally) honest and is head of fertility for the nhs hospital we use and is also the head of the private clinic so I’d like to think he’d be honest about it. I’m 32, nearly 33. He does worry about his age with it all. That’s been a long journey for you!

@Misty84 the pad is for post vasectomy so is designed to wrap around in place. Any ice pack would do
@Alexis7890 my hubby had poor morphology but now normal with all the changes I mentioned above, he's also lost weight as that can affect it too.

For the next transfer I'll be taking more progesterone this time and will notify them when my period starts in a week, but they told me today that there's a cyclogest shortage , so need to see nearer the time if there's any available.

@Alexis7890 he might be fine, it's hard to say but worth looking into so you know what you're dealing with, and that's not a bad price for the test really.

Hi,

I hope you don’t mind me crashing. I’ve been an unofficial member of the donkey cart for awhile now and have just joined mumsnet for some additional support.

I’m 38 and my husband is 39. We’ve been TTC for almost 3 years now and started IVF in January this year, when I was 37.

So far we’ve gone through the following:

Transfer 1 (fresh), 5AA (untested) - BFN
Transfer 2 (FET), 5AA (euploid) - BFN
Transfer 3 (FET) - cancelled 2 days before transfer due to low progesterone / oestrogen
Transfer 4 (FET), 4BB (euploid) - BFN

Prior to starting IVF I had an open myomectomy to remove fibroids. I’ve had all of the basic tests plus the Emma / Alice and a more recent hysteroscopy to check if the surgery caused any scarring or the fibroids were back. Everything came back normal. My lining is naturally thick at transfer too and triple layer with the oestrogen.

We came to IVF unexplained, but since the cancelled cycle my clinic thinks my progesterone and oestrogen levels are at fault, though after being dosed up to my eyeballs on both last cycle (plus intralips) this doesn’t seem to have made a difference.

My clinic are now regrouping and strategising and we get to hear their plan next week. We’re exhausted though and are thinking this might never happen. Which is not a nice place to be.

We have one euploid embryo left and another that’s being re-tested, but I don’t know how much longer I / we can go on trying without knowing we’ve ’fixed’ the issue first. It feels like we’ve just been throwing embryos away and at the moment going through the strain of creating more embryos doesn’t seem like the solution.

Sorry if I’ve slowed down the channel! Any advice re feeling a little despondent or relating to implantation issues would be appreciated. If not, no worries.

@OrangeBengal it’s not you, don’t worry! Some weeks are quieter than others.

I feel the same as you with not having any answers to why they keep failing, so I can’t really offer any help, just solidarity.

@OrangeBengal welcome! We're just a bit quiet sometimes, you're welcome to join us and chat. Not sure I have any good advice, but I'm a similar age, I'm 39, DH is 40 and we've been trying 3 years too. We started IVF in Feb, we had 4 embryos, mine went like this:

FET 1 - 4AA - BFN
FET 2 - 4AB - BFN
FET 3 - 5AC and 4BB (I think, need to double check that one) that we're transferring together in September, if they thaw ok.

Mine are all untested and, for now, I'm putting it down to age and bad luck. I have a fairly thick lining and don't take oestrogen, I have a history of migraines so I'm doing natural modified transfers. I know how you feel though, it feels hopeless after multiple failures. I did start a thread in infertility where people shared their success stories after multiple attempts, I don't know if you'd like to visit that? I'm on the EMMA/ALICE thread in infertility too and there's some good advice in there in case you plan on getting more tests.

I went to my GP today and got vitamin deficiency tests, going to talk to my clinic about thrombophilia tests and I sort of expect I need to take prednisolone at some stage, just to see if it helps. But I'm in a similar boat to you, I'm hoping it's just age causing my implantation failure and it'll take eventually, but I'm not feelingoptimistic.

I'll be starting private for a new EC in autumn if this next FET fails.

Thanks @Sunbird24, solidarity is appreciated!

Thanks for sharing @thislittlebird, sorry that you don’t have any answers either, it’s definitely a bit of kicker! Re transferring two next time, is this something your clinic think will increase your chances? We’re thinking about this, but are not sure if it’ll help or hinder as the info available seems contradictory?? Plus not sure about putting (bad pun coming) all our eggs in one basket.

I’m thinking it might be worth doing the ERA though, as we skipped this last time as our consultant didn’t value it, but it’s pretty much the only thing left. I’ll pop over to the Emma / Alice thread if I do.

Limits (max transfers) have been on my mind a lot recently, is this something you’ve all come to an agreement with yourselves on?

@OrangeBengal i’m 44 now and only got one embryo left. If the last one doesn’t stick then I’m done. I guess I’ll think about getting a pet or something.

Is there anything else that can be investigated @Sunbird24? I started to look into alternative clinics, the one I thought looked best wasn’t really interested in FET, but more than happy if I wanted EC.

@OrangeBengal tried everything except PGT-A, but I didn’t want to defrost them, take cells, refreeze, wait for results and the potentially defrost again - especially when post-miscarriage genetic testing on two embryos showed 1 trisomy and 1 normal. Nobody seems to have any ideas why they almost all implanted but then all gave up by 10 weeks. It may be that it just isn’t part of life’s plan for me, but whatever happens I can never regret that I tried.

@Sunbird24, that’s the key I think, however far you go, just making sure you don’t have regrets. We thought IVF, as a science, would provide more answers, but really it doesn’t, but one just doesn’t care if the outcome is right. If the outcome is wrong, that’s another story.

Hi @OrangeBengal 😊 I don’t have any ivf experience so sending you good luck but can’t offer any experience or anything like that. We’re trying for our first baby I’m 31, husband 42, we went straight to a fertility referral as I have PCOS and no menstrual cycle naturally so had all the testing and husband generally fine but low morphology and I have a high egg count and everything the right size shape etc just don’t ovulate so currently on letrozole to try to balance hormones and get the ovaries working! My hormones are very unbalanced and lining always too thin so they want to see if it can get thicker as well

anyone who has tried letrozole….CD1 after taking provera was Saturday so started letrozole Sunday, last pills last night. Period stopped Tuesday, always have very light periods anyway, slight bleeding yesterday and woke up with heavy bleeding (for me) this morning….this didn’t happen last cycle any ideas what might be happening?! I assume the letrozole just isn’t working?! Any advice appreciated!!

Hi @Alexis7890, we’re trying for our first too. It’s definitely amazing how many things can go wrong in biology, it’s fascinating when it’s not annoying! It’s meant you’re on a whole different cocktail of drugs to me, so I’m no help with letrozole, I’m afraid. I’m increasingly amazed that any woman ‘just’ gets pregnant!

Welcome @OrangeBengal
Oh my goodness so hard to have all those transfers and all negative, I’m so sorry. We really expect IVF to be the answer so it’s even more difficult when that proves just as challenging.

I’m 38 and partner is 32. Been TTC just over 3 years.
1st round IVF with ICSI: no embryos
Fell pregnant naturally: MC at 10 weeks.
2nd round IVF with IMSI: 2 embryos, neither made it to transfer.

We have major problems with my partner’s sperm and my eggs are just getting older and fewer so I totally understand the feelings of despondency. Think everyone on here does!

@OrangeBengal i have said so many times it is miraculous anyone gets pregnant when you actually look into it! I think this will be the last lot of letrozole and move on to injections next, my husband said he’d do them for me if that’s what we need then was like wait….will they show me what to do?! Umm yes!! Haha. Do you have a next steps plan?

Thanks @Misty84, sorry you’ve had a bit of a sh** time too! Re sperm I’m assuming your partner is on proxeed? As part of our IVF investigation my husband did a dna frag test and it came back as high for damage. Prior to that all standard tests actually looked really good, not just ok, but like super sperm, so this result was especially surprising and unsettling for him. For me, I must admit it did help a little as psychologically I’d put the pressure all on myself. He went to see a specialist who put him on proxeed and told him to cut out red meat completely and lower the booze to a minimum. Luckily for us we didn’t need to do this prior to EC as my eggs compensated, but now with older eggs, I’m not sure they would, hence the sperm regime.

@Alexis7890, injections are not too bad actually, just use a ice pack in a tea towel / thin towel for 5mins beforehand, pinch the skin when injecting, release before you take the needle out and change the area you inject for every injection. My husband mixes the stuff up (there are lots of YouTube vids for this) and then I actually do the injections myself. If you can’t be at home for the injection, get some numbing cream and use that. If prescribed Menopur, buy one of these amzn.eu/d/cXKD9MV

For next steps, we have a chat with the medical director at our clinic next Friday and in the meantime I’ve got everything crossed that our currently ‘unknown’ embryo survives retesting and is euploid.

Thanks @OrangeBengal , yes he’s on Proxeed, he informed me yesterday that he spends £70 a month on it! Don’t think he realises what all my supplements add up to!🙄 He’s got very high dna fragmentation and also anti-sperm antibodies. I wish my eggs could compensate but it doesn’t look like they can! So we’ll keep focusing on him, going to see the main man Jonathan Ramsay to see if there’s anything we’ve missed.
Thanks so much for your advice.
I hope your next embryo is ok 🤞🤞