We might be over 40 but we are young at heart, taking our supplements, shagging on time and waiting for the precious BFP!Over 40's TTC, join us here...

[Gumblossom]

Starting the new thread, Cloudjumper.

Anyone over 40, trying to conceive, whether it is your first or 6th (or more), we're facing the obstacles together.

I've been at it for 6 years now, but there are plenty of good news stories from these threads over the years.

Come and join us with your worries, woes,successes and milestones, we are here to support one another in our quest.

Cloud, sorry for the delay in OV, and I guess,the supplement overload is easy to happen. A detox from all this could help, if the cycle is doing weird things. As for giving up, can you maybe give up without going on contraception, just try to casually live your life.... I have had breaks like this in my ttc years (4 now?). It helps a lot to regain mental stability.

Gum, I know about intralipids, but I do not believe into them. Have seen a couple of studies saying they are not helpful. I believe sticking with pred and maybe this wobenzyme to calm immunes before ov may be useful. If it happens, it will and if not, then not. I am OK to do some supplementing and follow the rmc gold standard protocol pf pred/prog/baby aspirin, but intralipids and ivig I consider too invasive. Also, there are studie sby prof. Christiansen that for over 40ies ivig and intralipid are not that effective. I guess it hints that most of our losses are chromosomal anyway, and I can not really claim my last one was not. Maybe it was and my protocol was just ok? This wobenzym thing is natural remedy, so I am ok to try it, but if I see it has a negative impact on my cycles will stop immidiately....

Grizzer, indeed I agree with you - if you had bfp two weeks after missed period, you did ovulste late. On the pther hand, it is trickier to explain pos opk and ov delay. Do you keep testing after first pos opk? How long they stay pos? some ppl take time to gear up for ov and first pos ov test is then less sure indicator in these cases. I get two pos opks and oculate the day after the last one, seemingly. Of course not sure, but I get a bfp 12 days feom first pos, 10 days feom ov. So I can not be too fsr of.. How many pos opks you get?

Good morning ladies.

Jass, I thought you would have done your homework re:intralipids, you are very knowledgable about all things ttc. I am glad we have you on this thread as I have learnt so much from you.

It sounds like trying the wobenzyme can't do any harm, so why not give it a go? Is it used for immune issues in general? My mother has an autoimmune condition (it worries me that I may end up like her - hence the anti-inflammatory diet I try to stick to), and is on pred at the moment. She hates the affect it has on her - she can't sleep. Having said that, I have tried to talk to her on many occasions about how diet can cause inflammation, but she won't listen to me and sticks with the "normal" food pyramid that suggests plenty of grain is good for you (my research says that it is not).

I too, believe that losses in our forties are most likely to be due to dodgy eggs(chromosomal). Reading that website was sobering: at my age,less than 1 out of 10 eggs will be healthy. I think my body has done a reasonable job of sifting out the poorly embryos. I know for a fact that my first miscarriage at ten weeks (baby measured 8) was Trisomy 13. I guess there's still a tiny hope that there is a healthy egg in there, so I have to at least give it a go every month in the hope that the sperm is there to meet that 1 in 10 chance of a healthy egg.

Cloud, I am sorry that ttc is getting you down, but I completely understand. It is hard to keep doing this year after year. I know everyone's situation is different, but have you discussed IVF or donor egg with your DH? I know that in itself would be terribly stressful, but I wonder, if you'd try alternatives before giving up? Perhaps a break would help? Are you still seeing a counsellor?

I think I would have given up years ago (or gone completely mad) if I didn't already have a big family. As much as I'd love one more, I know I have been given life's blessings over and over, so I have just continued on, without too much invested I suppose (although it may not seem that way, with the complaining I do on this thread ). Having said that, I would had fertility treatment years ago if my DH had agreed to it, but he was always adamant it was natural or not at all, and I have had to honour that.

Anyway, here I am, 14 days post super late ovulation, totally confusing cycle, and still no AF. Maybe she will turn up later today (she did that last cycle). I don't have any tests, but I saved my FMU in a jar so that I can pick up a test for later in the day if AF doesn't show.

Temperature hasn't dropped since yesterday, but still isn't what I'd call a pregnant temperature.

Thinking I am definitely in peri or pre menopause. No there. It has to happen sometime

Sorry I haven't posted in a while everyone but I have been lurking and keeping up with your news. AF hit me pretty hard last month and I've been feeling stressed-very stressed with the whole TTC. I resolved myself that for March I would carry on doing the deed but give myself a month off the OPKs. Anyway this morning (AF is due tomorrow) i decided to do a HPT. Usually I don't bother as I hate the depression of a negative test. Anyway this morning I just decided to get it out of the way as I couldn't face the usual "am I?/Aren't I?" getting my hopes up and then dashed in the run up to AF. Anyway, I got a very faint BFP. I've also done an IC ovulation test ( as I used my last HPT) and it's come up a clear positive. Obviously I feel elated but very cautious as it was a very faint BFP. Thanks ladies, I just needed to tell someone.

I usually get 2 days of positive opks Jass although there is some variation on that. Sometimes I get a slow build up of lines, other times I go from nothing to positive very quickly. I have had some months where there has only been one day of positive lines but when I'm at work I don't poas at the same time & often forget until I come home around 6pm so could well have just missed it on the second day. I think the key is to just keep dtd for a full 2 weeks!
Hope you're feeling a bit better Cloud. I went through a similar thing last month & decided to give it just a couple more months. I have to say, as AF approaches (bfn this morning) I feel saddened by that decision & want to extend but I guess that's inevitable.
Can I ask you all a ridiculous question? Someone made the comment to me recently that maybe I can't carry boys. That can't be a 'thing' can it? I know there maybe a chromosomal issue with a particular gender but I find it odd that a person might always mc one sex. Anyone heard of that?

grizzer I have heard of this scenario of some women not being able to carry boys, something to do with an immune response. I have to admit that I don't really believe in it, and I don't think that there is any scientific evidence for this either. Happy to stand corrected, but I'm very sceptical. Having a general immune issue, high NK cells etc. and that causing issues with pregnancy, yes, but I struggle to see how this could be cause by gender.

seewot Congratulations! A line is a line! Here's to a boring and uneventful 9 months x

Seewot - that's lovely news. So pleased to hear some good news. Congratulations.

Grizzer, I've heard that too, but am not so sure I believe it.

Gosh, this ttc caper is tough isn't it?

I thought once AF caught up with me my general sadness and fog would lift, but it hasn't. Yep, Af turned up, just after I wasted a hpt this evening (which was, needless to say, negative). Usually once AF turns up, I feel better, but I am feeling rather blue.

I think the long cycle and all the confusion was a total head-f*&k for me. For some reason it (and I think, my Dh being away for a couple of weeks) has got me dwelling on the losses I have had, the reality that it's unlikely I will get my THB, and I just feel flat.

I tried a couple of hours gardening to cheer me up, but it didn't help much as the bloody garden is so overgrown, I spent two hours pulling up spikey young-berry brambles, and then accidentally found myself up close and personal to a carpet python. The buggers just love my garden. Luckily they aren't venomous and are very pretty, but still, I don't want a nip from one.

I am hoping a nice long hot shower will improve my mood. Then I might just have a wee glass of port.

P.S Grizzer - so sorry about the BFN this morning.

Sorry Seewot I think we crossed posts. Didn't mean to ignore your lovely news. Congratulations!! Hope everything goes smoothly. Please pop on to give us progress updates.
Sorry AF arrived Gum. I can feel mine too. Not due til Friday but at least she's showing that she's coming so I won't keep testing. Acupuncture this afternoon so that will make me feel better.
Thanks for your views on carrying boys. It does sound odd that's for sure. I think I can safely ignore that helpful tip!
I've just bumped in to one of the school mums from dd's class. I've never said more than 2 words to her & she's just asked me why I've only got one child & don't I want more. Cue stunned silence & embarrassment on my part! So strange that people think it's ok to say stuff like that.

seewot hope that line gets stronger

I'm still in limbo, on cd41. Had to speak to the Clearblue trial lady and she didn't help things by saying `let's assume you are pregnant'. I hope I'm not because I've consumed half the chemists this week. These long cycles are getting more common so like you gum I am thinking that the big m is on its way.

seewot hope that line gets stronger

I'm still in limbo, on cd41. Had to speak to the Clearblue trial lady and she didn't help things by saying `let's assume you are pregnant'. I hope I'm not because I've consumed half the chemists this week. These long cycles are getting more common so like you gum I am thinking that the big m is on its way.

Seewor, congrats!

Grizzer, if your ov test is pos for two days only I guess you have to ov within 24 h,cunless tou get several peak periods - LH surges again a few days later and you ov only then. That kind of double peak can happen.

The theory of mcing only boys -'I have met on internet women who have only daughters and who only have mcd boys. And it is poss in principle that your immunes attack sth y-related, so it can not be escluded. But I guess for those who already have several losses the probabilty of them being all same sex diminishes.....

Morning all!!

just popping in for a quick hello.

Chewy I wondered what you were saying back there about Dadsnet! Now this, I think says it all. At supermarket with DS who is two. We were putting his juice of choice in the basket.'Baby Fireflies juice.' Then he picks up the Diet Coke and puts it in too, saying 'Daddy juice'... I also found an empty bottle of the stuff in the pushchair basket....

Ladies, I appreciate your advice that I give up on the SI. I agree, I probably should. It's just I'm so damned desperate. I'm popping just about anything I can get my hands on at the moment.

Congratulations Seewot. Hope you'll keep updating us to keep us all motivated!

Cloud hope you're ok?

How about you, Gum?

Grizzer sorry to hear you're out for the month too. I saw your post earlier and have been feeling for you WRT the question about why you only have one DC. People can be so tactless. I'm surprised I haven't been asked more often. Only the once so far, and by someone very kind and well meaning. I laughed it off at first and said 'Well, DH and I decided that we wanted to go for quality, not quantity.' She was very uncomfortable with that reply so I just explained very quietly that we really wanted a sibling for DS, but that we just weren't being that lucky. I hate being told that DS is not good at stuff (insert whatever you like here) because he's an only child. I really hope our luck changes, and yours too, Grizzer, and everyone else. Why isn't there a magic wand we can just wave?

Did at least get the flashing smiley on OPK this/yesterday am so had better get shagging. Really not in the mood. Far too many shitty life things going on at mo. I won't even get a 'must try harder' mark from FF though as have completely failed to take temperature once in the morning so far.

Going to get some beauty sleep! Night all!!

Hi fireflies, it's lovely to hear from you.

I am feeling about 1000 times better today - now that the floodgates have opened, the sadness has lifted substantially. I think it also helps that I did two hours in the gym; did a Zumba class (and how can you not be uplifted by dancing for an hour with a bunch of men and women, the majority who are older than me, and really get into stating their stuff! It is a laugh!), then a yoga class, then acupuncture: the perfect uplifting morning! I told my acupuncturist about the WTF cycle, and she asked me,"Do you think it's menopause?", my response,"yes, it's highly likely at my age isn't it?". She agreed, and reminded me (as she does almost every time) that in Chinese medicine, they say a woman has 7x7 years of fertility, so I have a few more months (I'll be 49 in November). She said there's really nothing she can do for it, apart from treat symptoms, and that I am doing everything right, if it's meant to be...So, no answers there, but at least I had a very nice lie down for an hour. She told me all my pulses,and energy were excellent, so I suppose that's good.

FF, I too am throwing whatever I can at this last ditch attempt to get pregnant (though I think your chances are much better than mine). I don't think the red clover isoflavones helped me at all last month, as I ovulated very late (could it have been the isoflavones that caused that??). Maybe I need to up the dose? I still have plenty of it and think I might as well take it.At least I am having a decent flow, usually AF is quite light, which worried me a bit.

I have added l-Arginine and L-carnitine to my sups list after reading Dr Sher's recommendations. I have a pre-conception sup that has almost all the recommendations in it, except those two, and the recommended amount of Vit C, so I've added that too. I am now taking a big handful of sups morning and night. If nothing else, I should be very healthy

Afternoon All,

Gum, your healthy afternoon sounds fantastic. I need to get myself motivated. Managed to get my two out for a bike ride this morning so that was nice.

Thanks for all your good wishes, it really means a lot. I went out and got another couple of Boots tests today as it was the brand I used yesterday and wanted to compare. Yes, the line has definitely got stronger, a definite BFP. I could only really see yesterday's when I held it in the light. I'm 4 weeks today so early days. I'm still terrified AF is going to show up afterall.

I think I'm going to hold off from going to the doctors until I'm at least 7 weeks. I've lost two at exactly the same time 6+2 so that will be the first milestone to get through.

Grizzer, people can be so tactless and stupid. I think half the time they're just trying to make conversation.

Congratulations SeeWot! Really hope it goes well for you. I'm now 10+2 and am still putting off seeing the doctor for a couple more weeks. Then I'm hoping that the midwife appt will be a couple of weeks after that, and maybe someone will try a Doppler on me before things get too involved. (Have booked appt with former obstetrician GP in hope that she's seen it all before)

Hoping for the best for you, seewot and fromwest, too!

Well I'm having a WTFFFF cycle. The flashing smileys started on CD6 and then a solid smiley appeared, very briefly, on CD8 . That's surely way too early - and is 5 days earlier than last month. Its never happened before and I've no idea what's going on. I blame my experiment with Soy Isoflavones on CD5 - 9. Its now CD13 and I've carried on testing with OPKs (hoping for a second, more sensibly timed LH peak) and also DTD (but with neither conviction nor enthusiasm - so actually, not much change from normal then). Meanwhile its been a welcome distraction to catch up with everyone's news.

Seewot - what great news - congrats on your BFP!

Gerald - I was hoping you'd confirm a BFP too? It seems negative HPT's when pg do happen occasionally. A friend who's just had her 2nd baby, had a couple of weeks of negative tests after her missed AF (including the first test at GP) then her GP did a blood test to confirm she was pg.

Grizzer - My SIL had 3 MCs then 3 DDs in quick succession and is convinced she can't carry boys. Even though she didn't know the gender of the MCs. But perhaps it all might have more to do with the fact that after her 3rd MC she gave up a majorly stressful job, with night shifts, for something less pressurised with more regular hours and daytime only.
What lovely news about your friend's 45 year old SIL, to deliver a healthy baby after so many losses and with a still birth too, how awful.
I'm another one on your behalf for the tactless comment of school mum! I was thinking - so that woman is insufficiently interested to be ordinarily friendly to you on a regular basis, but still nosey enough to poke around for 'gossip'? What a ... er, I'd best settle for "cow". Then I saw Seewot's comment that the woman was likely just making conversation. Seewot might well be right - and is clearly much nicer than me!

FF - you need a award for your efforts this month! Sorry the Soy Iso made you feel so ill - but I agree with what others have said, if it turns out you're not pg this time, perhaps scale back the Soy for next time, if not skip them completely? As I said, personally, I'm thinking more 'stuff' isn't always better - I've gone off the Soy idea as I'm pretty sure they've contributed to my WTFFFF cycle ...

Jass - interesting what you say about Pred to suppress immunes before ov. I had some consults at this clinic last year: The Miscarriage Clinic. I believe they have many different, specifically tailored protocols, but the one that was discussed with me was based on progesterone / aspirin / prednisolone - of course, the things you've been doing yourself. The aspirin was to be taken whilst TTC. The prednisolone (25mg daily) was to be started at ovulation (measured on positive OPK) and continued to HPT (an 'early' one, like FRER, about 10 - 11 DPO). If not pg, the pred was to be stopped immediately (no weaning, as apparently it wouldn't have been taken for 'long enough' to require weaning). If pg, then you would add the progesterone and stay on pred until 12 weeks, then wean off it gradually. They also recommended an intralipid infusion at 6 - 7 weeks, but of course, don't have to have it. Taking pred for just a short period from ov to negative HPT wasn't supposed to affect the next ov, but if it did, I think the protocol is quite often offered alongside superovulation treatment, with something like Letrozole. (You've probably seen the prednisolone thread on here - I think the references to 'Dr S' are for the same clinic.) I don't know if any of that's helpful. Maybe if you were interested you could perhaps fix up a 'phone/skype consultation with them and email any test results?

Gum - sorry AF got you in the end. Thanks for Dr Sher's supplement list. Interesting you picked out L-Carnitine and L-Arginine. They were the ones that caught my eye too and think I might add them next month. I assume that amino acids don't have cycle-screwing potential!

Cloud - sorry for the dreaded UTI. Hope you're feeling generally stronger and more confident with your new plan. Are you still taking the DHEA?

Annie - another welcome. Sorry you've had a rough ride, but your chances still ought to be good in view of your relatively young age and fabulous AMH of 14.5!

Apologies in advance if I'm speaking out of turn, but in view of your higher than average AMH, plus what you say about anovulatory cycles, I just wondered if you'd ever considered PCOS? I suppose if you've had IVF, you've probably had a few U/S scans, but I don't know whether its always diagnosed just from scans, or needs a hormone profile as well (is it Testosterone + SHBG etc to calculate Androgen Index - I can't remember). Anyway, I remember meeting a young woman (in her 20's) in the maternity ward, who'd struggled to get/stay pregnant due to PCOS, then conceived immediately after a doctor put her on Metformin.

As an easier, less full on alternative, there's a supplement I looked into taking just before I conceived DD. I believe it has a good evidence basis for improving egg quality and restoring ovulation in women with PCOS. As I recall, the evidence wasn't as strong for women without PCOS (like me), but I'd thought about trying it anyway: Myoinositol + Folic Acid, branded as 'Inofolic'. At the time, it wasn't easily available in the UK (which was why I never tried it) but I've just looked up some links and it seems to be more widely known and available now. Maybe its one I should think about myself.
- inofolic.org.uk
- Midland Fertility - inofolic
- more about inofolic

Hi to everyone else. Now off to try to persuade a plastic stick to smile at me. Lunatic

Missed your update Fromwest. Wonderful to hear you're 10 + 2 and all is well. Your patience is amazing! All the best for the next 29 + 5.

Giraffe, yes I know about dr.S and his protocol. I have been following thone of prof. Quenby usually, nut have tried the S. version, too. And it totally killed my ov. So I do not want to do it again, as i believe strongly that it is omly useful ehat works with you rbpdy, not eith someone else or thst you then need to adjust sth. else. That is why am researching other immune suppressants, maybe more natural, to use before bfo. hut first need my cycle back and will not take anything but folic acid and aspirin before that happens. Otherwise I would not know whether i have the wtf cycle or am messing sth. up with supplements.

On sos, fays 5-9 should actually postpone ov by couple of days, not bring it forward, But go without them next cycle and see,whether soy could havereally been the cause.

Congratulations SeeWot!

Thank you so much Chewygiraffe for taking time to consider my symptoms, that's so kind of you. I'm a bit shocked with myself for not pursuing this further myself.

I have suspected PCOS myself but it's not been diagnosed. I have read that a high AMH can mean PCOS. I've had cysts identified on my ovaries when i've had scans in the past and at my last one I had the consultant said 'right side polycystic' during the scan so I asked afterwards if I had PCOS and he said no, not the syndrome but maybe a mild form.

I was put on Yasmin as part of my down-regging for IVF and lost weight immediately and I felt so balanced, I haven't felt well-being like that in years. I know now that Yasmin is used as treatment for PCOS.

I really need to sort my BMI out. I have to lose the 2 stone I've put on.

I will make and appointment at the GP tomorrow and ask about Metformin, i may have to be referred again to the fertility clinic though to get it which will take ages. I'll definitely buy the supplement you mentioned.

Thank you thank you thank you!!

Oops I said 'myself' 3 times there - must preview before posting.

Congratulations to Seawot and Fromwest!

Jass, which days do I take iso's for improving egg quality: is it sooner (3 -7) or later(5-9)??? Should I up the dose? Last time I took 120 everyday, then 200 the last couple of days. I read that one should double the dose of climbed, e.g. if you'd take 50mgs of climbed, you'd take 100 of iso's. Maybe I should take 200 of iso's?

Your opinion would be appreciated

chewy Sorry to hear about your WTFFF cycle - they are sooo annoying! I have also started to think that too many supplements might actually have an effect on my cycles. After my last debacle, I have now decided to go back to basics, just taking the antenatal vitamins and omegas. I've stopped the DHEA and CoQ10 for now and will see how my cycles behave. I just can't deal with all that messing around with shifting ovulation dates... We'll have to see.

I finally saw the consultant about the MRI scan of my fibroid last night. It was a really good, positive and encouraging appointment. The fibroid is actually smaller than expected (6-7 cm, instead of 10) and looks slightly necrotic. The consultant thinks that it has not been and will not be any problem for a pregnancy - very unlikely that it had anything to do with my mcs. No removal required, and no further check ups.

He was very positive about me getting pg again and in his opinion, I have a 50% chance of a successful pregnancy, due to my age and history. And I'm happy with that estimate, it's as good as it gets.
He suggested to get on with ttc now - which is great, and we are already doing so with everything we can throw at it - now there is just that small matter of getting pg...

I feel much better after this - after the meltdown last week, this was just the reassurance that I required. I think I will stick with the August deadline for now (simply because I work better with a plan and deadlines), but I'm really hoping that ttc will now have a 'fresh breath of life'. DH also seemed very happy and positive. So - onwards and upwards (I hope)!