We might be over 40 but we are young at heart, taking our supplements, shagging on time and waiting for the precious BFP!Over 40's TTC, join us here...

[Gumblossom]

Starting the new thread, Cloudjumper.

Anyone over 40, trying to conceive, whether it is your first or 6th (or more), we're facing the obstacles together.

I've been at it for 6 years now, but there are plenty of good news stories from these threads over the years.

Come and join us with your worries, woes,successes and milestones, we are here to support one another in our quest.

Good, Annie. Tomorrow your scan must be good, as the hcg predicts!

Gum, good news about digi 3+! Its a milestone!

That's great, annie Fingers crossed at for your scan!

great stuff annie! best of love and luck for the scan xxx

Annie, glad to hear the numbers are good. Looking forward to hearing about your scan.

I understand your anxiety about the symptoms. Mine seem to be at a different level daily. Today I woke up without tender breasts and minimal taste in my mouth.Started to panic. But now that I have been up an hour, the boobs are starting to feel a bit sore and the taste in my mouth is back with a vengeance. But then later it may wan again. I know hormones fluctuate, but as a past miscarrier the only reassurance I get is the symptoms.

I wish time could move a little faster and I'd arrive safe and sound at 12 weeks with good test results so then I could relax and actually enjoy being pregnant. At least I am pregnant today. Must keep repeating that mantra....

Grizzer, when is your scan?

Good news Annie!

Trying to hold it together here. The scan was inconclusive as they said it may be too early to see anything yet. They saw a yolk sac measuring 6w6d but they couldn't see anything inside it. There was a midwife there training to use the sonography equipment and she was doing the scan, she said directly to me 'its not an empty sac' in a way that was supposed to give me encouragement. They asked me if i felt reassured and I said no because I've seen 2 yolk sacs before and they ended in miscarriage. I really wanted them to say they could see an embryo or a heartbeat. At one point the student said to the monographer 'is that?' and he said 'yes'. I think he said 'it looks like it could be a developing embryo' but I'm not even sure if he did say that now. They also said in a reassuring way 'this is normal for a healthy pregnancy'. The yolk sac measures 16.5mm / 6w6d.

I was then taken into a room to speak to a midwife who explained that I had to wait for the report and that she was going to speak to me about the process. She told that it was inconclusive and I have to go back in 2 weeks for another scan. I have been in that situation 2 times before so I am well aware that it is not a good sign when they can't see an embryo and I was prepared for this.

She asked me my history, asked '.. you did IVF??! why would you do that if you don't have a history of infertility?' to which I had to reply 'I do have a history of infertility' - this is not a sentence i want to say out loud when I'm still processing the shock of another possible empty sac. She then fired questions at me about my previous pregnancies and miscarriages, when I got married, what date is is today? etc at the same time as saying 'I don't mean to fire questions at you'. She then came out with 'it doesn't look good'. I said 'sorry did you say 'it doesn't look good'? and she repeated it.

I told her about the HCG tests and she went to find them on the computer and showed them to the consultant who was outside on the ward somewhere (we have to go to the maternity dept for scans where I live). The midwife came back and said that the consultant said 'expect a bleed'. At that point i burst into tears. She said 'i know it sounds cold and callous but nature is like that'. I said 'I'm sorry I'm so upset (crying uncontrollably by now) it was just when you said that the consultant said 'expect a bleed' and she then denied saying that so I said 'so he didn't say 'expect a bleed' and she said 'no the consultant said it's too soon to know, the HCG results don't confirm anything at this point, the scan is the gold standard'. I wish someone had been with me because I am 99.9% positive she said the words 'expect a bleed'.

She then asked my age and I said '41, nearly 42' and she said 'Oh. I can see why you're upset now. I can understand you think it's the end of the line... there are some positive things you can take away from this for people who have had multiple miscarriages there are things the GP can do..' I said 'yes I've had the chromosome abnormality test' . 'No that's not what I was going to say there is an aspirin treatment that thins the blood, you wait a couple of months and then start trying again and as soon as you get a positive you go on aspirin and it helps the embryo to implant..' I said 'Yes I did that last time and miscarried'. She then went on about me going home and thinking positive because there is no point in worrying and stress is bad and asked me what my job was and what my husband did before telling me there are other options like 'fostering and adoption' and following that 'but this is definitely not the time to be talking about fostering and adoption.

I'm sorry I've gushed this transcript out because I'm a bit shocked by it and wish someone had been with me.

They gave me a scan photo which I'll upload so you can see. It's just a yolk sac. It's pretty poor quality.

I've had a cup of tea and squeezed my little dog to death so feel a bit better. Just have to carry on. I can handle the miscarriage I just can't handle shocks.

I am so sorry if this is upsetting for anyone ttc or pg, i don't want to upset anyone so please say if you'd rather not hear all this. I don't want to leave the 'conception' thread until I know I've actually got an embryo but at the same time I appreciate it's not exactly cheerleading positivity for those in the 2ww!

Annie - So sorry you were treated so badly by that nurse. She was so wrong to talk to you in the way that she did. (unfortunately I have experienced this too, so know what you had to deal with, all the back-tracking on her words, and making you go over so much previous history etc, is evidence enough that she was inexperienced in dealing with women who have experienced recurrent miscarriage.)

Please try to stay positive, go on the misdiagnosedmiscarriage website to read some more positive stories. I had a scan at 7w3d where the sac was small and nothing in it, given the either your dates are wrong or you are miscarrying talk, both statements were wrong, my dates were confirmed later as accurate, and have a 10 year old as proof, that they get it wrong.

It is positive that the sonographer was trying to be reassuring. Keep up the mantra "today I am pregnant", focus on just the fact that today you are pregnant and that the poor quality of the scan and the encouraging sonographer are proof that you still are ok right now. The not knowing is the hardest to deal with, as you say, you could handle a miscarriage, but this nurse was beyond wrong to talk to you the way she did. Try try try to keep positive.

Thanks so much Willitbe, I will try to stay positive. Thank you for sharing your positive story, miracles do happen... I'm already feeling better. I'll take some hope from the things I'm sure the midwife and sonographer said in the scanning room but keep grounded that nothing has been seen clearly enough to be confirmed.

I have had exceptional compassionate care in the past from the same department so I'm really shocked about today. She was almost comic in her mission to say the most upsetting things she possibly could! I was thinking 'what's next?!!' I actually laughed when she mentioned fostering. I asked someone I know about her later and she said she was 'prim and school m'am like'. I swear she was getting her cheapies out of it.

I sound bitter! I'm not. I just didn't need that extra kick when I was down.

annie I'm so sorry that you did not get the news you had hoped for, and that it was delivered in such an appalling manner. That nurse probably meant well, but it came out all horribly wrong. If it's inconclusive, it's inconclusive, and this is what she should have stuck with.

Which, I think, is what you need to do for now, you poor thing. Early scans are woefully inaccurate, and anything under 8 weeks can swing either way. There are sooo many stories of women who saw nothing at 6 weeks and came back 2 weeks later to a strong heartbeat. Pregnancy medicine is still one of the least advanced fields, and so much is still unknown and based on guesswork. You could have ovulated late, implanted late, or maybe it's just a lazy bean that grows slowly - it's all possible. Plus, you have high HcG, and it's increasing, right?

I don't want to sugar-coat it, of course there is still a risk that it might all come to an end, but for now, try and focus on the inconclusive part. Everything is possible.
One day at a time, try and distract yourself (easier said than done, I know!).

Thank you Cloud I will. They didn't actually say the word 'inconclusive', I've just had that before, they just said 'it may be too soon, come back in 2 weeks'. After I left the scanning room I had a glimmer of hope. The midwife who i spoke to later hadn't been in the room so she was just going on the report. I will cling on to the hope that the sonographer and midwife gave me.

Oh god I just remembered something else the insensitive midwife said '... when you're older, I don't want to use the word d e s p e r a t i o n but when you're older you become desperate because you're running out of time... I was well onto her by this point!

do they usually listen for a heartbeat? they didn't mention a heartbeat so that's not good either.

annie They will check if there is a heartbeat on the scan, and they would have probably mentioned it, but again, it might just be too early to see one!

Hi Reni1,

Thank you for telling me about this thread...I'm new to this ??

So...I had my 1st baby at 41, thinking about no.2 but am really worried about the risks as given such a scare first time round.

Any advice?

oh annie how awful to have such poor service, and on your own too....i understand how you just kind of.....stop listening or zone out when you hear that first sentence. That happpened to me, luckily I had my mum with me, as I had to ask her later, what i was supposed to do next.

Try to keep positive hun, the misdiagnosedmiscarriage.com that someone mentioned gave me a glimmer of hope, reading the stories on there and helped me get through my 10 day wait till my 2nd scan....plus you have all of us in here to help share the load

big massive hugs and lots of soothing vibes for your poor frazzled emotions (((annie)))

Hi Tinky, welcome to the thread, what are you doing so far re: TTC? I wouldn't overstate the risks, they are undoubtedly there and yes, they are higher than in a 25yo, but if you manage to get pregnant and carry to term most babies are fine even for us old mums. You yourself are one of the 40+ success stories already.

I am on CD 12, groundhog day, so depressing. It's at it like rabbits waiting for ovulation week. Been good with the vitamins this month.

Crossing all I have for you, Annie and of course gum and cloud.

Hi Tinky I'm so sorry you've come to the thread in the middle of my tears and emotion .

Thank you Fatty I feel a bit soothed now as my (v pregnant) friend came round and I was able to sob my heart out to her and have real life hugs.

I just wanted to say it was the gestational sac that measured 6w6d not the yolk sac. Early to bed tonight - a new day tomorrow. x

Annie. Sorry for the news. But with a sac which is less than 21mm in diameter no sonographer should say anything negative about what might happen. A yolk sac means no blighted ovum. Also, there is the dual halo around tour sac, it is a live embryo right now. At the sid eof yolk sac there is a thicker place, which might be why they thought it is a developing fetal pole and it may well be. A fetsl pole less than 7mm does not need to have a heartbeat at all. So, it can turn out alright. It can of course go badly and I wouldbe worried shit (and indeed I was when I have seen such US too late acc. to my own calculations), but now it depneds basically whether it is a natural late developer or something is wrong with it, in which case it stops developing. None can tell anything from this scan. I guess why the nurse said that the doc said you must expect to bleed, is your hcg. They think that with hcg above 20 000 heartbeat should be present. It normally is when you exceed 10 000. But betas are very variable, which means that one might get a hb with beta of 6000 and the other need to wait until 100 000.

So, based on scan alone (even if you are looking, say, a week behind), nothing can be concluded and without nowing whether you tend to have high or low hcgs, nothing can be concluded from betas, too.

Unfortunately, all you can do is sit it out. Keep moving, but not strenuous. Keep drinking tons of water. Taking aspirin might also still help, even if you have miscarried on aspirin. It should make bloodflow to embryo better, as does keeping well hydrated. I drank religiously 3l of water a day with my last pg, and got a heartbeat out of a yolk sac looking too little too late. Was also on aspirin and sll else in the world, as my cases go. True, I did not get a baby out of it and maybe it was genetic or maybe indeed the late decelopment signalled placenta issues, i.e. it did predict that the placenta would not be able to take over and the fetus would die, but you already read one example here were too little, too late turned out positive. Misdiagnosed miscarriage site can help you find loads of positive stories.
Do you agree w 6w6 days of gestation? Or you think you are less or more gone. It puzzles me they put your 16mm sac at 6w, I think I have been given 5w6d with 16 mm, which only shows that different docs use diff. standards here as well.
You cannot do anything about the worry, but lets hope it will turn out positive. And pls do not worry about posting scan pics, people have posted sctual toddlers here a couple of pages ago and as you may note, no one here protests. Lots of us here realise that someone else's pg or baby does not reduce our chances of one, so do not worry about posting pic and pg related issues. As you also see, we accept our waiting is not 2weeks, but 12, and eveeybody pg can still stay supported. Just going to antenatal threads i snot poss in our situation, therefore please stay. We worry with you!

Hi everyone, I'm just catching up. Great news Cloud. Are you waiting for 12 weeks to have next scan or will you have one sooner?
Sorry you've had such an awful time Annie. 2 weeks is a lifetime to have to wait. That nurse sounds like a bundle of laughs. Hopefully she is at home now kicking herself over her insensitivity.
Good to hear you have symptoms Gum. I'm desperate for some but really don't feel a thing. I haven't been given a date for scan yet as I've been away but will chase it tomorrow. Very nervous about it though. I'm 6 weeks on Friday & my last 2 mcs ended either immediately or before 6 weeks. I'm pretty sure I didn't have any symptoms then either but I just want to feel sick!! No more bleeding though so I hope that's good.
Welcome to the madhouse Tinky. No advice really except to say the whole TTC/pregnancy business is scary but we do it anyway because we hope it will be worth the pain in the long run.
I'm exhausted so will catch up on everyone's news tomorrow but waves to all x

Annie, sorry to hear that the scan wasn't reassuring. It sounds like the midwife was a complete idiot. I would be writing a letter of complaint. Her treatment of you, in a fragile emotional state, was cruel and unnecessary.
From what everyone else has said, it does sound like there is every good chance that things will be fine. Have you talked to your DH? Will he be home soon? I hope so.

Welcome to Tinky - this is a great group of over 40's with loads of support and advice.

I know there are risks involved in ttc over 40, but the rewards are huge and worth the worry, I believe. My youngest DS was born when I was just shy of my 42nd birthday, and after a harrowing 12 week result, he turned out to be perfect. It was worrying, and being over forty always returns high odds, but most babies are born perfect.

I had an awful day yesterday. Waited all day for my breast tenderness to return. Worried myself sick that it was all over and it was just a matter of time before the bleeding starts. However, it did return in the evening, and I had felt a bit "off" all day.

I've had my normal 4 am wake up and already the boobs are a bit tingly, so maybe today won't be so bad.

The 12 ww is an absolute nightmare. I just want to make it to my next milestone 6+6, when I see my doctor, then I can ask for progesterone levels and a scan at 8 weeks, 9 weeks and 10 weeks (whether she'll go for that, I don't know).

I hope the trip is going well, grizzer.

X-post with you Grizzer. For some pregnancies, the sickness doesn't kick into until 6 weeks, and for some not at all. Perhaps it will hit you soon or not at all, I don't think it is a "sign" of anything. Though I completely understand the need for symptoms as reassurance.

Hello all I have been away for a week and am just catching up

Anniehoo I am so sorry to hear how badly you were treated by the midwife, that is appalling. I'm sorry you still have to wait longer for some definitive news.

Gum, Grizzer and Cloud I am glad you are all progressing well and look forward to more news

I had my appointment with the doctor the week before last and she is sending me for a pelvic/tv ultrasound next week and a load of blood tests. She's also asked BF to arrange for SA.

Apart from the Progesterone (which I know is CD21) I am a bit confused as to when the other tests should be done. She told me that I could get them done anytime, but I think there are some that should be done on CD3 - can anyone help? The ones I don't think are timing sensitive are Rubella, Vitamin B12, FBC (?), Ferritin, Serum Folate, Cholesterol, Renal Profile, Prolactin, Diabetes, Hepatic profile, thyroid function. Oestradiol and FSH/LH I thought should be done on CD3? I also have a test for testosterone but no idea when that should be done.

Oops, forgot about you when crossing digits for our preggers, grizzer, hope all is well.

Little tmi question, how much ewcm is too much? Without wanting to be too detailed, I seem to have an ew flood this month, can that be bad?

Sorry you're having such an awful time Annie.
Can't help with the other questions, sorry.

How are you feeling fromwest?

I've been temping for 4 months now, rarely ever forgetting. This morning I did forget and ov is/was due yesterday, today or tomorrow. Now I won't know just when. I am currently whipping myself into a frenzy over it, because it is well known that you cannot possibly fall pregnant if you do not know your exact ovulation day . Shoot me now, I'm clearly losing the plot.