The Elderberry Pavlovas: still chasing that 'copter in the hope of a festive BFP. Thread 16 (the one where Happy was left in charge!!)

[happylass]

Here we go again.....

The smallprint –
Berries have a strict entrance criteria (TTC #1, over 30, TTC for 6+months, NO instadiffers, must have a special pot) and def no mention of baby dust or baby dancing UGH !!! Ooooh aren’t we strict!

Feather 36.3 would be really low for me but everyone is different. It'll take a few months to get to know your own pattern. Happy temping!

Just looked at my appt letter for the FC and it says 'patients under 16 must be accompanied by a parent/guardian'. Wtf?

36.3 would be about right for me pre O

happy wtf re under 16s??? Unless its for people having eggs frozen pre cancer treatment

Always surprised me how many families would be in the waiting room! Although guess that'll be me if we want a second!

School performances all over. Thank f*ck. Now I can relax. Don't want to talk about it ever again. Went ok, but just want to forget all about it.

The acupuncture wasn't as positive as I thought it would be .
Basically she told me I was doing too much running. My 'kidneys don't have enough energy' and running was using some of that energy. I don't think she was very pleased when I kept asking more questions about it. Basically, in not so many words, she ended up saying 'well do you want to get pg or not' and I ended up crying all the way home.
Apparently moderate exercise is good. Trouble is what I'm doing now is what I would deem moderate. I used to train hard 3, 4 or 5 times a week doing hill reps, sprint sessions etc. I'm now running socially twice a week and run at a pace that means I can chat all the way round. Running is the only thing keeping me sane, relieving all the teaching and ttc stress. It's the only way I know to cope with all the bumps around me I might not be pg but at least I can run. I feel like she's telling me I need to let go of the only thing giving me any strength right now . If it means I can get pg then I'd obviously do anything, I'm just not convinced of the overall benefit when I consider the balance between the need for only moderate exercise against my mental health! I only started running in April. I was running when I got pg. I wasn't running for 4 years before that and I never got pg in more than a year of not running and ttc.
Am I being unreasonable? I feel like the only thing sapping my energy right now is the school stress (as from tonight greatly reduced) and ttc. If she can give me back a cycle and I can start saying no to extra curricular stuff at school, then I should be fine. What do the berries think?

Boodle two more days.......

Thank f!#$ it's only two more days. I am just about on my knees. Glad you've got your performances out of the way (henceforth never to be mentioned).

The running thing is a bit weird really. I don't think I would stop if it were my 'keep sane' strategy and I'm actually thinking about getting started with it again myself. I guess you just need to be sensible about how much you do and perhaps at what time if your cycle? (Not helpful at all...)

Running twice a week is moderate or less in my eyes. I have friends who gym 5 days a week and I wouldn't call that excessive so I don't see how twice a week can be classed as anything other than normal

...and good for you both mentally and physically

Oh funky I am so sorry to hear your news, it's bloody rotten. Sending you and

Gill I know what you mean, my injection lesson was ages ago, by the time I start (in 10 days ish) I will have forgotten everything! When do you think you will start?

Who else is on the ivf train, I forget?!?

Glad the unmentionable thing is over barking

Exactly merk. I figure I'll keep up the two social club runs and if I run at a weekend it would be on the fells with the dog. The terrain means it's more of a walk/run anyway. She said walking was great, but I don't think she understands that running at an easy pace probably makes me less out of breath than if she would be if she was walking up a hill. She didn't like anything involving weights either, but said anything where your bodyweight is supported is fine, like swimming and bike riding. Bike riding?! Where I live is very hilly, I gave up riding my road bike when I decided strenuous exercise should probably be cut out!

Googling is not helping.

A study published in March in Fertility and Sterility revealed that normal-weight woman—those with a body mass index (BMI) under 25—who engaged in vigorous exercise like running, swimming, and aerobics for five or more hours a week were 42 percent less likely to get pregnant than women who did not exercise at all. "Very vigorous exercise can affect ovulation, and thereby disrupt menstrual cycles," says Jessica Scotchie, a reproductive endocrinologist practicing in Chattanooga, Tenn. "The pituitary gland interprets the strenuous exercise as meaning that this is not an optimal time to further stress the body with reproduction, and thus shuts down the signaling to the ovary to promote ovulation." Researchers also add that extreme exercise could affect implantation, a fertilized egg's ability to attach to the inside of the uterus.

I know this only mentions vigorous exercise, but I'm finding a lot of sites just saying stop running because it can shorten the luteal phase/ stop ovulation. I had a short luteal phase before I started running though.....

Barking my advice would be to stick to 2 not too strenuous runs a week and hope your cycle returns to normal due to less school stress. If you feel less stressed in the next couple of months but you're still having weird cycles then re-evaluate the exercise situation.

I am still concerned about your ridiculously light periods but the doctor has never thought this an issue, right?

IVF wise, I'm pretty sure I'll start stimming in Feb.

Where are you Aquarius? How are you after the op?

Work Christmas party today - starts at 2pm! Going to have to be sensible.

barking interestingly I was going to 4 high intensity gym classes a week when I was ttc and my acupuncturist thought that was great! I think you should find someone else. Sounds like she was just trying to find 'something wrong' if you ask me. As much as I loved mine, this did remind me that she tried to give me some wacky dietary advice once...I'm a dietitian ffs love

Thanks, you're making me feel better about it. I was very mixed up afterwards, felt like if I was going to embrace a new thing to try I had to get fully on board and go with everything, and picking and choosing which advice to follow wasn't really going to work.

The other thing that upset me was when she said early miscarriage is down to lack of chi in the kidneys and when I get pg again I need to be very careful to rest. At work I need to get my colleagues on board so someone can take over and I can go and have a lie down when I need one. ?!?!?!?!?! Errrr, just how is that going to work in a primary school?! We don't have spare adults that can just take over!! Made me think about getting pg in the school holidays and then miscarrying first week back at school in September . Keep telling myself it wasn't my fault but with all her 'you must rest' stuff it makes me think maybe I didn't do everything I could.
When she asked what I did for a living and I told her I was a teacher she said well that won't help will it. She then went on to ask me if I knew that teachers were way over represented in women with infertility. Marvellous. (Although I did think of all the teacher berries).

Gillster I think the reason I'll keep going is to try and get the blood moving as she put it. I not only want a cycle I want to actually bleed a bit more when I do!!

kitty Apparently I should eat a lot of steak and beef stew, that kind of nutrition advice I can handle!!

feather my temp was 36.3 this morning!! Anything between 36 and a max of 36.5 is normal for me pre O, post O anything from 36.5 upwards.

Morning all Op went ok ta thanks all for asking. Didn't get discharged til 9.30pm yest and was in quite a daze from all the drugs.

The registrar who briefed me afterwards said 'you won't remember this conversation' as I was still coming round- but i think she said they found and removed some endo- said it was 'mild', and were some adhesions here and there which they were able to remove/burn. Tubes look clear. Will get more detailed update in a couple of wks when I see the consultant.

No one told me about the special surgery fashion - hospital hot pants and stockings - that, the "cocktail" from my anaesthetist, and the v stoned feeling I had afterwards, made it seem like some sort of v weird night club experience... Clearly drugs not out of my system yet

Off back to sleep now.

Ps barking your acu lady sounds most unhelpful. You shouldnt feel like any of this is your fault nor should you feel bad about your career choice. i bet you're a fab teacher. Eating beef stew sounds good though

That all sounds very positive aqua, I think your palace of the child sounds nicely cleaned up and should be open for business pretty soon .

Yes those paper knickers are a treat! I also looked fab walking to theatre in gown, bottle green stockings and my Birkenstocks!

Glad the op went well. I slept loads after the anaesthetic, it actually felt quite nice. New year's BFP for sure

Glad all went well with your op Aquarius. Take care and hope you make a speedy recovery

So, just got back from the FC. Consultant was lovely if a little on the negative side (though I think he was just being realistic). Took my bloods for AMH test and ordered a HSG. Have to ring on first day of AF for HSG which by the law of sod will be tomorrow or Saturday so highly unlikely to get that done this cycle due to Christmas. No dildocam though. Is this unusual?
Really bad news though is that if AMH/FSH come back clear he will refer us for IVF. But the waiting list is 18 bloody months!?! Is that the same everywhere? Can't believe its that long. Thought it was just a couple of months Did say that we are allowed 1 cycle of private IVF whilst waiting on NHS so think will definitely go for that if needs be.
He did also mention IUI but I didn't ask if that could be done whilst on the waiting list for IVF, anyone know??
Feeling a bit down after it all tbh (which I know deserves a wang as there are others far worse off). Wasn't helped by DP having a go at me about us not trying at the moment or by having to walk past the 3 pg women smoking outside the hospital

Happy that's a shitty waiting list. I dot know about IUI I'm afraid, but suspect it will be the same as IVF. I don't understand why the limit on private IVF whilst waiting. Surely you could have as many cycles as you liked and just not tell them. The only question I think might be key if what happened if you got diffed on your private IVF cycle whilst waiting for NHS IVF? Would that rule you out of NHS IVF in the future?

Yes Merk I think any successful pregnancy rules out NHS IVF. Suspect IUI list may be shorter as that can be done at the local hospital where we've been today. IVF is only done at hospital in Cardiff and may well be the only place in S Wales that does it. Hence the ridiculously long waiting list

Mmm, Barking sorry your acupuncture appointment was such a disappointment - I would have thought your level of exercise was fine! (But I know nothing about these things) Maybe it affects some women more than other? Have you thought about trying something like yoga/pilates? I would imagine that they are good for relieving stress and they do require control and strength, but I'm not sure if if you'd get that same feeling of freedom that running can give, but maybe it's worth a shot?

Feather that temp is also about my average pre O, after which it gradually goes up to about 36.65. Are you going to bother trying out the FF app?

Aqua good! Sounds like things went well - hope this makes a difference for you!!!

Happy that all sounds pretty crappy and huge GRRRR at prego smokers That sounds like a ridiculously long waiting list! Can't you go to a different hospital that offers NHS treatment? Would the one in Bristol be too far? (That one is supposed to be top 10 in UK) I could have gone to that one but was just too far compared to the the one that is 20 min down the road. Otherwise I don't see why you couldn't try IUI while waiting for IVF? It's probably depends on where you live though, it is defo worth asking about!

Gill hope you are having a good afternoon

Merk if you had more private cycles they would know because all cycles are registered with the HFEA. We get one on the NHS so we can have 1 or 2 private cycles and still get one on the NHS (as long as they aren't successful!) If we have 3 then we don't qualify.
Barking I thought acupuncturists just stick needles in you and you come out feeling relaxed, not lecture you! Criticizing your career choice is really unhelpful. Running, for me, would definitely be strenuous exercise but if you're able to hold a conversation while running then that sounds moderate. Since she has recommended cycling is it something to do with high impact sports that she doesn't like? There is something called joggers' haematuria where runners get blood in their urine. It's harmless but maybe that's what she's on about with her kidney chi business.

barking sorry but this woman seems like a right silly bint! How dare she imply that the mc was somehow your fault. If resting so much is that important then why are pregnant women encouraged to exercise? If you had a very manual job then fair enough but you don't. Re the meat, yes having adequate protein and iron is important but I'm sure you've got a balanced diet anyway!

happy @ smoking pregnant women! What is wrong with people?!!

Re dildocam, my trust wouldn't give me one either initially but I wish I'd pushed for one as it was the only thing that actually diagnosed me in the end. Failing that, you could go private. I got a quote for £95.

Re iui, yes I'm biased but I'm obviously all in favour, especially if its an option on the nhs

Barking sorry but that woman sounds like a loon 2 or 3 runs a week is not extreme exercise! Loads of mums run. I thn it's bollocks and you should keep doing it. Running is a great de-stresser.

Though I have been thinking myself about the role of stress in unsuccessful ttc. Two days this week I've come home from work with physical symptoms due to stress - awful griping abdominal pains - and I don't think that can be helping matters.

Funky I am so very, very sorry.

Agree with everyone re acupuncturist barking - when it comes down to it, you're paying someone for a service rather than to lecture you about your exercising. Seeing as you've come away from your first meeting feeling the way you do, it's probably wise to look for someone you click with and who gets you. This sort of thing isn't a one size fits all scenario!

happy 18 months is ridiculous. Maybe go see your gp and see if they can ask your FC for you to be referred to another clinic nearby with a shorter waiting list? I know they sometime do that in London but not sure where you are. Also, smoking pregnant women infuriate me. Grrr! So unfair!

aquarius glad you're well!

Re nhs ivf, I was under the impression that you don't get more free ivf after you have your first child via nhs ivf? I'm probably wrong, but seem to remember a lot of women on MN complaining about the lack of support for secondary infertility...

gill hope you went for it at your Xmas do! One night on the sauce is not a bad thing!

Temp was 36.1 this morning. Have to email the acupuncturist at 7am tomorrow with my three temps and confirming a negative hpt - I may have to be there for a 9am session, but she'll let me know! Also, signed the hsg request form today at the FC.

Oh god, two more days of work and then 9 blissful days off. I don't know that I have the strength to make it!

xx