Excellent (or should that be eggcellent?) egg buddies! Anyone having IVF/ICSI in April/May/June 2013 come and join us!

[EuroShaggleton]

We've almost filled the second thread so here is a new one, so we can carry on chatting! Threads #1 and #2 saw some stunning successes and some sad outcomes. We'll have more of the former and less of the latter on thread #3 please!

All comers welcome. I found it very useful to be with people going through the same thing when I did my first cycle, so if you would like to join us, please come on in!

[EuroShaggleton]

I'm reaching the limits of my understanding here (!) but yes, I think a large number of embryos will naturally be duffers that would never have survived more than a few days if made the natural way, so they won't last in the womb either. There is also a view that the lab is a much harsher environment than the womb, which is why if there are not many embies, they get them back asap. So putting those two things together, I conclude (and this is just me adding 2+2 so I might be making 5) that the ones that don't make it to day 5 includes the ones that wouldn't have made it inside you and possibly some that might have made it inside you but couldn't hack it in the lab, so the ones left are really "strong". Does that make sense?

I did natural IVF because I started a conventional cycle last year and the downregging drugs sent me a bit loopy. I'm one of the minority of people who gets depressed and suicidal on the Pill, so I wasn't expecting a large amount of fake hormones to be easy, but it was awful. So I took a break for 6 months and found a clinic that did natural and mild IVF. I had no expectation that the first cycle would work at all and was completely stunned when it did.

[keepitgoing]

eyes I agree with euro. My clinic says of day3 embryos only about 30% will be chromasomally normal. By day 5 this is 70%. So if you wait you can hope to choose the best ones. But if you don't have many there's no point waiting.

Assisted hatching - for repeated implantation failure, and yes, a great deal more expensive. I think you said you've had a m/c? In which case implantation is probably not the issue.

Protocol. I am overseas and can have a lot of choice over treatment. I did short protocol because - fewer drugs, shorter time, cheaper, no apparent reason for the usual long protocol. Most clinics seem to push LP in younger patients/good amh but it's unclear why. I suspect a lot is to do with it making it easier on timing. I hear stories that in some uk clinics they only do EC on a Thursday, or not at weekends. I wouldn't go somewhere like this if you can choose - when your eggs are ready they are ready. My clinic said you get on average one extra egg on SP, but slightly lower preg rate? I don't know. We had 11 eggs, 7 fertilised, 4 made it to day 5, my one put back was graded 'good/fair'. (I'm 30) It's a lot of guesswork....

Yes, it is very scary at each stage thinking you might have none left if you keep waiting. We had never conceived before, so I thought - I'll get crap eggs/empty follies, I'll ovulate too soon, they won't fertilise, they won't divide.

Honestly, I forced myself to only look one step ahead and see each step as a victory even if we didn't get a bfp - ie at least we can get fertilisation etc. I am still in that mindset and don't really believe I might have a baby in 7.5 months. Just still one step at a time.

[keepitgoing]

Oh, and I was told 35% success if one put back, 55% if two (45% single preg, 10% twin).the studies show a SET plus FET same success as DET and less risky, though of course there's a risk the emby may not defrost. We went set but might have changed in a subsequent cycle.

Good luck karbea when do you start stimming? Are you on LP?

Hi mewling good luck!!

[Dildals]

I will still be lurking here as well I reckon :-) x

[Karbea]

Keepitgoing I'm not sure will hopefully find out today (or not). I imagine I'll be on the lp. Also hoping to find out my amh and DHs DNA frag results.

Beautiful morning!

[EuroShaggleton]

I hope so Didals. You and the other success stories can be our lucky mascots and reminder that it can work!

[Dildals]

Counting down the days to my 12 week scan on Monday! :-)

[Dildals]

oh, euro what issues did your bf have with her twin pregnancy? Where they identical?

[EuroShaggleton]

That seems to have come around pretty quickly! Good luck!

Yes, they are identical - they came from her last frostie! Each scan seemed to differ as to whether or not they were sharing a sac - I'm not sure what side the drs came down on eventually! She had a lot of bleeding and scares in early pregnancy. And then her waters went at 31 weeks, resulting in her being bluelighted from London to Brighton as that was the nearest place with two free NICU beds! (Not ideal when she had a toddler at the time.) After being kept there for a week, they decided to send her home, on bedrest, save for very regular checkups to check for infection. She stayed on bedrest at home until 35 weeks (going completely stir crazy), when the twins were born by c-section. They were in NICU for a few days. She had been monitored closely for TTTS, and none had been spotted but they were born one dark and bloated, the other light and skinny, so it had been happening but missed. Both are absolutely fine now though, despite being a month prem and giving her a lot of drama!

I think a lot of the problems stemmed from them being identical and possibly sharing a sac (I think the most risky type of twins is where they share a sac and a placenta). Non-id twins are much less risky.

The waters going so early in particular was a huge worry, and has definitely affected my view of SET vs DET, although while we are doing natural IVF it is a choice I am unlikely to have to face.

[Dildals]

The riskier ones are the ones where they share placenta/sac. But there are still a lot more risks, (pre) eclampsia, high BP, gestational diabetes, miscarriage, stillbirth and ofcourse premature labour. It makes for uplifting reading, but I can't do anything than hope for the best!

We both have twins in our family and the cycle before I started IVF I ovulated from both ovaries, so I think it was probably meant to be in a strange way.

[keepitgoing]

Head in sand, dildals. You'll be fine! :)

[EuroShaggleton]

Dildals I'm sure you will be fine. Most twin mummies are, and they will keep an extra close eye on you. As I said, it all turned out fine for my friend and her boys, despite the worries along the way.

I've laid more than one egg on a montired cycle before, and I have twins in both my mum and dad's families, so I'm a candidate too (or I would be if I could manage to get any kind of natural fertilisation!).

[Karbea]

Just been to have my mid cycle scan (ended up being day16).

I got my amh results which are 5.46, the doctor said they were good for my age (39) but been googling and they look low????

However the bigger issue was he found a cyst, does anyone know if this means I won't be able to start at the end of the monitoring phase? The doc said it would depend on blood test results ie if the cyst was effective my hormones, does this mean I'll know when they call with the blood test results? Bit confused what happens now, it was pretty much all systems go last time as everything was clear in 'there'

Help?!?!?

[buzzybee123]

evening ladies, I was hoping I could join you all, I am starting DE IVF overseas in May. I start my drugs on Thursday. I've just turned the big 40, suffered 2 miscarriages, diagnosed with high nk cells and not a whiff of a BFP for 15 months. Tried SO and IUI. Had my fertility MOT and decided that with an AMH of 1.1 that I was best to go with DE even though the clinic here would have tried with my own.

choco I am sorry to hear your news, they do usually wait until 3 miscarriages before they start investigations unless you are of a certain age I think older than 37 then they will start after 2. I think it also depends on where you live.

eyes I think some clinics put alot of emphasis on your AMH, I felt devastated when I got mine as I had fallen pregnant quite quickly in the beginning. I was at another clinic that went by your E2 results and they were happy with mine so I do think it is down to the individual clinic. The clinic did tell me that they have success rates with women with AMHs lower than mine.
As for the supplements, I think I should get a medal for pretty much trying everything, I suppose it made me feel like I was doing something to try and improve things now I just take aspirin, vitamin d folic acd, omega 3 and co enzyme q 10. My poor husband has been on all sorts but we were advised for him just to take a multi vitamin :)

hello to everyone else, some I know from other places

[putthecrispsDOWN]

Hi all...have been lurking but thought it was polite to say hi! Have just started stimms for IVF...this is our fourth try. Our first try worked, have a lovely dd who is about to be three after a bit of a bumpy pregnancy(, second failed (never wokrked from the start tbh), and the third time couldn't down reg. seems to be going well this time (back on the gonal-f which worked well first time)So am feeling positive! I have low amh due to severe endo and lots of surgery but the drugs are made to counteract that I hope. Every cycle is so different ime. Fingers crossed for all of us!

Karbea - depends on the size of the cyst usually. I tend to have one or two and they usually let me carry on but this is if they are large then they may get in the way of the eggs...on my first cycle I had one large cyst which meant they couldn't collect from one ovary...however it still worked!!

[twinklestar2]

Hi can I join too? I have one more month of trying naturally before we go back for our appointment in May to start the assisted process.

Me and my husband have just turned 34, we have been TTC for 22 months. Everything is fine with me; husband has low morphology (1% which went up to 2% with a few lifestyle changes). We had our first appt at the fertility hospital (we are at the Hammersmith in London) 6 weeks ago. The docs advised my husband to give up drinking completely to see if that helps with the morphology.

So can I join? I really want some tips on how to prepare my body for IVF, is there anything I should/shouldnt be doing? Please let me know if I'm not in the right place... :)

[fairypangolin]

Hi all from another lurker... eyes I agree with the others that AMH is a bit of a weird indicator. Different clinics have different views as to what is normal but the general consensus is that the higher it is the more easily you will respond to stimming and be at higher risk of OHSS. Mine was 39.9 which is freakishly high for my age (39) and so they put me on the short protocol with v low doses of stimms (112.5 iu gonal f). I didnt overstimulate but i didnt produce many eggs either (7).

It obviously did not do me any good conceiving naturally so a low level doesn't necessarily either. A high level is associated with PCOS but I have no other symptoms of it. My GP and the first IVF consultant I saw said I definitely did not have PCOS but the second consultant said I must be "on the spectrum" with an AMH like that. ??? Luckily my cycle worked so I don't need to explore that further but it just shows how mysterious AMH results are.

[fairypangolin]

Ps nice to see all the new names!

[putthecrispsDOWN]

Hi twinkle...do you have a kindle? If so have a look for a Zita West book about IVF...she goes on a bit and you have to be prepared to take some of it with a pinch of salt, but it is a good introduction to the whole process and how to prepare. As a rule we do no caffeine or alcohol during (and before if poss!) and I have regular acupuncture which I love, but I really do believe that you have to do what's right for you.

[EuroShaggleton]

Welcome buzz. It's nice to see you over here. Not long now!

Welcome crisps (love the name). It's great that you have one IVF success already!

And finally welcome Twinkle! (Loving the swelling of our numbers :)) I'm usually pretty healthy anyway, but didn't really do anything different for my IVF cycle. Just kept an extra eye on making sure I was getting plenty of fruit and veg and lean protein. I stopped coffee (but not all caffeine) but that was really because I get terrible withdrawal eadaches when I give it up so I decided to do it beforehand when I could take the good drugs! I drunk lightly up to a few days past ET (just a glass here and there). I got a BFP so I think I would do the same again.

Interesting about your AMH fairy. I don't think I've ever heard of one that high amongst ttcers who reach the point where they are getting investigations done.

[twinklestar2]

Thx for the tip crisps, I've just ordered the book from Amazon. We drunk decaf tea and coffee, is that ok? We made the switch years ago. We probably drink about 5-6 cups a day.

Thx for the welcome, euro.

I forgot to say in my opening post congratulations to all who have their BFP and good luck to those still waiting.

[fairypangolin]

euro I know, having the high AMH was reassuring in a way but it also increased the "why me?" type thoughts significantly. I also found the lack of any interest on the part of the doctors rather mystifying but perhaps if this cycle had failed they would have looked into it further. It did make me wonder whether the problem wasn't with DH eg DNA fragmentation but again the doctors were even less interested in him.

I stopped alcohol and caffeine during the cycle but otherwise ate normally (reasonably healthy anyway) and didn't try any supplements. On the blastocyst front, I was v keen to see which of my 4 embryos would make it that far so I took a risk that none would. Luckily two made it and one implanted so it paid off. At day 2 and day 3 the embryologist said they were all at exactly the same point of development (and looked good) so there was no way of choosing anyway. I would strongly advise anyone to talk to the embryologist every day after EC to get the best information ( if your clinic doesn't normally operate that way) and make an informed choice.

[keepitgoing]

At day 5 I had one at blast, three at early blast, two at morula. Put the blast back, but one of the early blasts slowed and one of the morulas then made it to blast by the next day, so we froze three (but not the three that would have been frozen if they'd chosen on day 5...).

buzzy masses of luck for start in tomorrow! Will you be having nk treatment alongside the ivf?

Hi twinkle I guess I exercised more in the months up to ivf, but was only taking normal prenatal pills. I gave up caffeine almost, and alcohol almost, and tried to eat healthily. Up the protein when you start stimming - I had one of those protein shakes each day. I was not at all organic as I live in Thailand where everything is pumped with chemicals, so I just had to go with it... I've heard people say there are chemicals in cheap decaf tea to strip out the caffeine, and six cups a day is quite a lot. But like I said before I was on Thai food (msg-central).

Tbh I don't think what we're eating will be the cause of infertility in anyone. Eat healthily and be healthy but try not to stress about it.

[resipsa]

Hi everyone. I'm rejoining on (t)winkle's advice. I think I popped in here to say hello in January but then life got in the way and I went back to the BFP thread only to see more go off happily with their BFP in hand. So, I return here with a plan to go for a first cycle of IVF next time around. AF due around 15 April.

My initial tests left me hopeful - AFC of 15+ and AMH of 21 - but I know that I'll be devastated if (when?) it fails. I'm 42 so it's last chance saloon for me.

If anyone has got an Top Tips for the 2 weeks to go before they start to drug me, then I will willigly pounce on them!

[Karbea]

Hello resipsa what have you been doing so far?