TTC Super Ovulation part 3

[Arianrhod]

Hey ladies -

There are a few of us who are ttc after mc's, however there will be ladies out there who are also ttc for the first time or second or third without success. If anyone is on, considering or had success on a super ovulation programme then do join us. How long did it take ? Did you try IUI with it.. ? Did you have PCOS?

Kicking this off and hoping some of you will join....

part 1 here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/conception/1385998-TTC-Super-Ovulation

Part 2 here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/conception/1475108-TTC-Super-Ovulation-part-2?pg=1

Mmm ... how long though, it's still in trials? 5 years?

Would they have to wait 5 years in a case like that? It's not a drug.
This morning I was wondering why we really need the scan, or even the trigger injection, for superovulation. After you've had one or two goes, and you know generally how you're going to respond, and when, and there's no danger of overstimulation, why not take the letrozole on its own? When I was prescribed clomid on the NHS, they said take it and have sex days 10 to 20. That would cover it. And save £250 a cycle! Although I do like looking at my ovaries for some reason ... when I had my lap and dye, they had some photos in a file that they took during the op which I grabbed and inspected. I was expecting an ovary to be lumpy, but mine was smooth (day 23), probably reflecting the lack of follicles.

Brown very interesting article indeed. I know exactly what you mean about the necessity of the scan and trigger shot with SO. On my crap response cycle I went for a scan on day 9 with Mr Mahfouz and there was only 1 follicle at 13mm so he said to come back 3 days later on the Monday for another scan. I thought god another £220, but later that day got a call from Louise saying no further scan needed, just do the trigger shot on the Monday and go for it. It's all just a bit of a guess as to when to do the trigger shot anyway, at least in my opinion.

When I had my NHS appointment the other week, the Consultant informed me that I had been "ripped off" as "there is no point to SO unless you do IUI at the same time". Hmm... I don't actually believe from what I have read that IUI is any different to normal timed intercourse when there are no issues with sperm. I really couldn't be bothered to argue with her in case it reduced my chances of IVF, but now I wish I had!!

Duggs It's like I'm in limbo at the moment. Do we just keep cracking on with timed sex, cause let's face it after a bloody long time there isn't much desire to be spontaneous? Or do I stop dragging my heels and book a couple of initial appointments and get on with IVF? The optimist in me always says this could be the month it works, then the realist says just get on and book the appointment and stop wasting time!! Or do I go back and do the last 2 goes at SO and cross fingers that it works? After all I have the letrozole sitting doing nothing in a drawer. And I think I might just go back to plain old folic acid and that's it. After all that was all I took when I got pg before. Still too scared to take the DHEA but that might change soon!

When I spoke about looking at IVF a while back with Louise the first thing she said was don't go to ARGC, come here! I hadn't even mentioned where I was looking at. Mr Gafar is lovely and I am sure they would be fantastic and they know my history, but for me New Life is a bit far to go being in NW London and I am lazy! ARGC is a 10 min bus ride away. Ari yes, a few people have mentioned CARE so I will have a look at them too. A night of googling and DTD ahead for me!!

Pebbles luckily I didn't get too many bad spots on the pred, but recently had a couple of stinkers. Of course I made them worse by picking at them, but found putting Bio oil on them helped them heal faster and also reduced the scaring somewhat too. Perhaps worth a try?

Ari I have considered ivf at the miscarriage clinic because Mr Gafar has worked at the ARGC but not having any success rates to go on makes it a bit risky. Mmmm who knows!

Interesting article Brown, could probably go to Australia and have ivf for the same price as going to ARGC! . Also I agree re the super ov, in December I just took the letrezole and dtd when I had signs of ovulation.

Breezy thanks for the tip on
the bio oil, I have been using a rosehip oil by Trilogy as read reviews that it got rid of acne scars but realised the other day on the back if the bottle it says not to use on broken skin. As the acne is still active thought I beat stop using that as maybe making it worse!

Hi all, I have been lurking. Breezyweezy sorry you had such a frustrating day yesterday, this is def the right place to rant. We have been looking at ivf too, and in Jan went to see Create who are supposedly better for more 'mature' ladies and offer a slightly more natural ivf approach. A friend of mine got lucky with them aged 41 on her 2nd cycle having had 2 unsuccessful attempts at the Lister. We then went to see George Ndukwe at Zita West - he has come from Care in Nottingham, trained under Alan Beer and (which I found a huge relief) has personal experience of mc which made him far more sympathetic than Mr S or Dr G. We are going to have ivf with him in May. I would def consider the Argc but don't think they would consider me due to my low amh and they like you to have an fsh near or below 10 before they let you cycle, which definitely counts me out. Having said that - I am a bit sceptical about FSH and AMH levels having got pregnant in both May and Sept last year on SO albeit without ultimate success. Don't want to overload you with research but I hope it helps in finding the right clinic for you.

Oh shall we rename or restart a new thread -"the remaining few who have singlehandedly bought dr s a new Bentley from SO cycles alone now moving into IVF in desperate attempt to become mothers" - wonder how many followers we'd get? Interesting about IVF clinics . . Also interesting theory that SO actually interferes with natural egg ripening process so although 2 follicles the quality is compromised. Can't remember who found that research but its interesting. I'm waiting to start IVF prob in next couple of mths. I was at LWC for my last round, which worked but I mc twins remember despite all dr s stuff and intrallipids and dr g found my NK Levels to be normal so I don't attribute my issues to NK cells. ARGC is def on my list as if this doesn't work (is NHS queen charlotte and Chelsea so no choice) then will try final attempt this summer. Am interested in dr ndwuke is it expensive?

Oh what a minefield and me being in York and all these fab clinics are in London!! Think ill be staying with my sister in Coventry for a while!!

Sorry what's lwc?

Pebbles, do you think your acne is rosacea rather than ordinary acne? If it's just on one cheek and very red it sounds more like that. In which case you need different products on it. Do your spots sometimes look like pimples but not actually come to anything? My mum and nan-in-law both have it. My mum finds Salcura very good. It's a urea-based range. And also you should avoid sunlight, which for my mum is the main trigger. She uses a special sunblock all year round. Plus avoid spicy foods, alcohol, etc.

How much does IUI cost with Mr S? I'm supposedly ovulating today but on letrozole my CM is like glue and no sperm would be able to swim through it. I'm wondering if IUI would be a better option, and cheaper than IVF.
Duggs, have you had your AMH tested? (You must have done, I remember the length of that list you showed us when we met up!)
I really feel for all you ladies embarking on the IVF route. Like ari, I'd be there with you if funds allowed. And, as importantly, if my OH was more enthusiastic/prepared to risk losing the cash.
I think it was BreezyWeezy talking about the dilemma of what to do: I realised the other day that I don't regret any of the money I've already spent on this (but admittedly it's not a great deal in the big scheme of things), even though nothing has happened. I don't regret the acne I've caused myself with the DHEA. I'm much more scared of regretting what I didn't do. Which at the moment includes IVF ...

Brown I did IUI with dr s ( dr gafar actually last feb) it was £750 I think. I justified it as another £500 ontop of the £250 it would cost for SO. Lwc is London women's clinic. I like your philosophy brown. I did have FSH 3.2 ,AMH 24.9 and LH 2.8 but that was sep 2010 so I think the NHS are going to re test me. I don't really know what that means I mis confess I am not clued up in the area?

duggs LMAO at your thread retitle, I'd follow it! :) V interested in all the IVF talk, so keep it going ladies.

brown I'm with you on not regretting what I've spent so far (and still spending, have you seen the price of Wobenzym?!), I just wish (like you) I could give IVF a couple of gos. And that my OH would be even vaguely enthusiastic about it all. I think he's just plain not bothered whether we have a baby or not, and it's just me keeping it going. Come on, Lottery win .. :)

What are the success rates for IUI, does anyone know, perhaps compared to IVF?

brown If you have CM issues due to SO why not use Pre-seed? Should help your OH's wrigglies get right where they need to be. If you're ovulating right now and need something today, I understand Boots sell 'Conceive Plus' which I believe is much the same as Pre-seed.

I read good things about George Ndukwe too, he's certainly one that I would consider if I could do IVF.

Interesting reading, ladies, just wish we could all get what we all so strongly deserve this year and turn this into a support for pregnancy thread, IYKWIM!

Thanks for your info Belly that's really interesting, do you know what the success rates are like at Zita West and if you don't mind me asking what the prices are like? I imagine like the ARGC it is one of the more expensive places....

Duggsloving the possible thread title!

I will have to have a look into that Brown, they are kind of hard bumps but some do get little heads on them but a bit more like rash kind of spots so you could be right. I have mild eczema so I guess the two can be related, thanks for the info.

ari, yes, I have Conceive Plus, but you can only put it where you can get to, not inside your cervix! The old wigglies would be able to get as far as the entrance hall only.
Duggs, thanks for the info. And your results all sound ideal, so good that I'd be surprised if they have deteriorated much in three years.
... With the ARGC, if they are eliminating people with dodgy AMH, and presumably other reasons, aren't their results falsely high?
Pebbles, that does sound like what my mum has. If she uses the sunblock and moisturiser though, you'd hardly know it was there.

Hi Pebbles I am embarrassed to say but I don't know how expensive Zita West is for ivf, and not because we have an endless pot of money (because we don't) but more because we have only had an initial consult and also because we figure it is going to be hideously expensive regardless, so want to go with someone we have confidence in. Will call them and ask as it would be useful info for anyone trying to decide. Having said that Create is quite a bit cheaper, as a private option, as they don't use as many drugs and it is gentler on your body, so there is a less pricey expensive option out there.
Brownstag I think there is a big element of truth in what you say about the argc's success stats, they do say no to people. A friend of mine got turned down by them as she had previously suffered a dvt, however they do monitor you to an insane degree and even if their success figures are artificially inflated to some degree they do have incredible success rates

Thanks for the info on Create Belly have been having a thorough look at thier website and am loving the idea of the more natural ivf! I have always suffered with ohss on my past cycles so think this could be a really good way forward for us. Loving the cheaper prices to meaning we could have a few tries with them. Am going to book a consultation with them and actually feel a bit enthusiastic for the first time in a while!! .

Have looked out my old blood tests akthought they are from 2008 and my fsh was 6.3 and LH was 5.9, not that knowledgable on this kind of thing but think that is good although could probably totally different by now!!

How exciting pebbles...loving this info sharing ladies.
I might check out care too now .. I'm on CD 34 really late 17 dpo but whiter than White on pregnancy tests so no idea what is going on!?

Opps mis read create ok will check them out x

Aw duggs I know that feeling hope you get an answer soon :( think ill write a pro and con list of ivf clinics today ;) xx

Hi ladies, I have been reading some of the thread re ivf etc. I recognise some of you from the prednisolone thread. Hope you don't mind me posting for some opinions if anyone has one about my situation please.

I'm convinced I've got an 'unfussy uterus' as I keep getting pregnant on the first attempt and then miscarrying. I've been diagnosed with high NKC but have miscarried twice on treatment. The last mc was a blighted ovum and I conceived using superovulation. Are any of you of the opinion that superovulation can actually produce a bad egg because it unnaturally makes your body produce the eggs rather than by natural selection?

I've never had dh's sperm tested because doctors always say its a problem with me, also we did have our ds so I don't know if that makes a difference to doctors' opinions.

I'm on Mr Shehata's treatment plan and I don't think he buys into the unfussy uterus theory. Think we'll give it one more go on the plan and if we fail go for an ivf consultaltion as I don't know anything about it at the moment for my situation. Just wondering if any of you think ivf would help? We are starting to wonder if it would be good for us so that they could carefully select an egg and healthy sperm, but I guess I would also need to be on nk cells treatment too so that I wouldn't miscarry. Any opinions or advice appreciated.

Btw is anyone exhausted with all the emotional turmoil they are going through or is it just me? I am just recovering from an mc but its so hard to keep going all of the time!

Mollieboo, sorry to hear about your mc. Yes I agree with a lot you've said. I have read research showing that superovulation leads to more eggs being produced of a doubtful quality. If I could afford it I would have IVF like a shot; my NHS consultant said that was my best option as all other influences are controlled: you've just to got implantation to worry about. I've personally become more and more sceptical about the importance of high NK cells, although I do take hydroxy but only because it gives me no side effects and I've got nothing to lose. I think I'd like to know what NK levels are to be found in fertile women who don't miscarry. This scepticism is despite successfully carrying a baby to term on pred. I would use the pred though if I were to do IVF, as it would be stupid to risk it. Yes, definitely exhausted, though thankfully I don't have mcs any more to deal with, just secondary infertility.

Hi all,
Well still awaiting humira result but now got awful sinititus and on amoxicillin and nose spray :( hope these ok for ttc. Feel so rotten :( x should be getting Greece results soon though
Sorry to hear of mc Molly :(

Evening all,
duggs love that idead for a thread. I'd certainly join it and am sure there would be a fair few others who would too!! Sorry to hear you're having a wtf cycle.

Thanks so much to you all for letting me rant away on here. You have been very helpfiul giving advice on clinics. Belly thanks for throwing Create into the mix too. I hadn't even looked at them, but spent a good while on their website over the weekend and am very interested in their approach, especially the IVM side of things. ARGC had been top of my list, however after reading various things, with my low AMH, I don't think it will be the best clinic for me. My FSH is just under 10, but perhaps pumping myself full of drugs and still ending up with very few eggs is not the best plan for me.

Brown if I were you I'd try some preseed with the applicators. I got some Conceive plus just to make a change last month, but didn't like it as it goes all sticky after a little while and you cant get it where you need it. Preseed seems to stay more watery and with the applicators you can get it in right where you need it! I am rather tight though and do what they say you shouldn't and re-use the applicators after washing in very hot water. The 9 that come with it just arent enough for what's in the tube!!

Pebbles have you booked your Create consult yet? I saw they have an open day on 16th March and was tempted to go and have a look around, but have decided to just book an actual consultation so off to Harley St on 14th March. Also looked at The Lister as read on FF that they are great for low AMHers so off there on the 14th March too. I will then compare and make a choice which one to go for. Quite excited actually!

mollie so sorry to hear about your mc. As brown said, she posted a link a while back to some research about SO and the quality of eggs produced ? an interesting read. It could be worth having a consultation at an IVF clinic and bring up your concerns with them. I always think it's a good idea to get second opinions. Have you had any genetic testing done after any of your mc? And in answer to being exhausted...completely, totally and utterly. I wonder if all the pain and disappointment is worth it and if we will ever get to have a baby. Sometimes I think it would be better to give up and just get a puppy, but we keep going don't we and hope that one day we might be lucky!!

Mel sorry to hear you are feeling rubbish and hope you feel better soon.

Thanks for your replies. brownstag sorry to know that you're going through secondary infertility. I know so many on here have got their babies after nk cells treatment but yes it would be really interesting to know how many normal women have raised levels too. Interesting how your consultant put it, ivf does sound really attractive at mo.

mel hope you feel lots better soon.

breezy I will give it one more bash naturally and then go for an ivf consultation. All so expensive! No I haven't had any tissue testing, all mcs except last one were natural but this time I didn't want an erpc so couldn't get tested. Have had karyotyping tests on me and dh though. Have got a crazy bulldog pup, got him 2 mcs ago, he has been amazing for us but still doesn't stop me wanting babies. Fab to have something to look after though!

I'm feeling pretty run down and fluey at mo so I'm not sure whether to wait a month as advised or just start trying as soon as I ovulate. It never works anyway so does it really matter?!

Hope everyone is doing ok and gets good news soon.

Agree with breezy on the pre-seed, doubly so with the applicators not being anywhere near enough. You used to be able to buy separate applicators apparently, but can't anymore :( I only suggested conceive plus because brown was due to ovulate RSN and I don't know anywhere you can buy pre-seed in a store, I've only ever seen it online.

mollie Welcome, and again so sorry for your loss. Like brown if finances permitted I'd be doing IVF tomorrow, having come this far and done so much including SO, with nothing working so far. Unfortunately it's a huge expense but if your finances do allow, it might be worthwhile pursuing.

breezy Loving the 'wtf cycle' expression! I'm having one of those myself right now :( due, I think, to the maca I've been taking for the past 5.5 weeks - or at least, if it's not that, I haven't got a clue. I got strong cramps all evening at 8dpo and again, a bit lighter, 9dpo. And started getting all hopeful, like you do, thinking possibly implantation pains. Bbs were moderately sore, but then I often get that from ovulation anyway, so that isn't an indicator. However, 10dpo yesterday, as well as cramps I started spotting, and this morning the bbs are no longer sore at all - not even a bit. So I can only assume this means AF is coming some 4 days early - WTF indeed! :( If it weren't for the bbs having completely stopped hurting (remember I'm not on pred, so no masking of symptoms) I might still hold a little hope, but bbs that hurt and then stop generally means progesterone levels dropping - and that can only mean imminent AF.

I'm p*d off as I didn't read anywhere that maca could give you early AFs. Will be doing some more research; I will continue taking it for another month as apparently it's an adaptogen, so perhaps my body just needs to adapt to it. But if I get another early AF that'll be my trial of maca over!

Just out of interest, what is Create's success rate for 'older ladies' with their natural IVF when compared to, say, ARGC or Lister's figures for 'older ladies', does anyone know?