Assisted Conception (and the bits in between) Volume 10

[MoJangled]

Our new home, hope you all find me soon...

Happy weekend ladies! Lots of good news going on at the moment - the power of believing!

Weller How are the jabs going? I hope you've got some good quality chocs to take the sting out of them...

Welcome to Joycep, good luck at ARGC this week.

Hi Caipirinhas (ooh, how i miss those drinks, great name!), I've not sniffed but sorry to hear you're feeling a bit down. It can't be easy with a newborn next door. But at least you're on your way now, take heart!

Morning to Sunny How are things today?

And how are Mini-pocket, Pip, and Itchy and "Scratchy* doing?

And of course waves to everyone else!!

Hi Weller great news you are back on the bus, and on your way towards that BFP!!

Welcome Joy I hope all goes well with your appt at ARGC, from what I hear/have read they are fantastic, so hope the monitoring cycle helps clear things up for you, and you too Sunny.

Sasha I hope the days till you otd fly by and you are not driving yourself too crazy with the symptom spotting, I know how hard it is but keep the faith!

Capirinhas good luck with the sniffing, and hope you feel better soon. I know it's not easy hearing your neighbours newborn but just think it could be you too soon!

Hello to all our lovely pregnant ladies, hope you and you little ones are all doing well!

AFM, we had our appointment on Wed and it was very positive and encouraging, though DH said he felt it was a bit like a sales meeting. Our CARE clinic is happy to do the immunes (Chicago tests) but it's likely to cost us around £2,500! . It could well find the answer though, so it must be worth doing, and soon too as I am not getting any younger. There is a lot of info to read about it all before we decide for definite but I think we are going to have to look into borrowing more money... But, I can't pass up the opportunity of getting that all important BFP again, and this time for the little one to stick around!

Hugs to all

DSB

Thanks Pocket - and so many congratulations to you. I'm so delighted for you. It's really inspiring to read some of the amazing stories on here.

Sunnyg - it's certainly great to have options and i do feel mercifully grateful that the argc can be an option for a round. I will let you know how I get on with the argc. I work 5mins away from them so I have popped in quite a few times to ask questions and drop off paperwork and it always seems pretty manic. I'm pretty scared to be honest as I gather they are hardcore. As someone who never so much as went on the pill because i didn't want to mess with my fertility, I find it very uncomfortable that I'm about to embark on ivf. But needs must!

Cairpirin - good luck with everything. Sorry it is making you feel sorry for yourself. I think anyone who doesn't feel sorry for themselves doing ivf is very admirable.

Ginger - I'm going to get the chicago tests done as well as I had a mc when we first started trying 2.5yrs ago plus several months where i have felt like i have had chemical pregnancies. I think it's all about ruling things in or out if we can. Bloody expensive though aren't they. I bet it costs them pounds to check.

waves to everyone else.

Ginger just to say I was at Care, had immunes done there. Was under George Nduwke who was then medical director, who suggested we asked our Gp to do as many of level 1 tests as possible - we did that (was complicated, had to give complete list to gp, gp had to contact labs and see what could be done, and they could do all but 2 for some reason of level 1's. That meant our total cost last year at Care was £1600, but we did pay for the most comprehensive level 2 tests and not the shorter list of level 2 tests. Going via Gp did add several months to waiting for results though - but as Care said they couldn't see us for 12 weeks (wanted to see the top immune consultant) even though we paid privately it didn't actually matter.

Sorry for essay.

Thanks Hoops and Joy, some food for thought there for me. I definitely agree it's the way forward to rule stuff out, and to potentially find the treatment that is right for us. Hoops I hadn't realised I could do some of the Chicago tests via GP so may be worth considering, but will have to think about the extra waiting we may have to endure.

Ginger I was under George Nduwke, who was then the medical director of one of the Care clinics and the Immune specialist - it was him who treated us just before he left to start in London and it was his idea to go via the Gp, as he knew he couldn't see us for 3 months!! Got the karyotpyes from Gp, and they are expensive. All we had to do was get full print out of all NHS results to take to him. In fact we created a lovely xcel spreadsheet which he loved of all results etc as a summary sheet for him, plus pages and pages of original test results.

The Gp can't do level 2 tests and sometimes the labs will not do all level 1's - for eg one of my level 1's the lab would only do if I was under a haematologist, which I wasn't. All gp's vary though. It helped that hardly any NHS funding for IVF here so Gp's attitude was that as they weren't following NICE guidelines she'd do what she could etc if we made it easy for them (typed lists of what tests needed etc).

Hello everyone, wow, you can't leave this thread alone for a week without missing loads, can you!

Brilliant, brilliant news Beginnings and Frosticle !!! Is it sinking in? How are you feeling? I can't remember a run of BFPs like this, ever, on the thread. Massive congratulations for two healthy and huge pregnancies with cravings, random emotional outbursts and bizarrely concocted emergency outfits. xx

Pocket how are you feeling honey? Looks like it's really really happening...

Sunny I can't really help much with your dilemma but it does sound like nailing whether you need immune support would be a good starting point to determine the rest. Very very good luck with the decision.

AFM had a mad week with work and family staying. Still pregnant as far as I know, and have finally extracted a midwife's booking in appointment for Tuesday where I'm desperately hoping she'll have a listen for a heartbeat. I should be 11 weeks (although Pip presumably will be measuring 9 weeks) tomorrow.

Hugs and waves to everyone, and Don't Stop Believing xx

Hi mo - great news!! Hope you have a sympathetic midwife (mine said they don't listen till week 16, so that was that..... so I bought my own doppler instead !!!) don't stress if they don't try or don't find one (my little monkey hid behind my placenta which was at the front all the time!)

Evening all!

Weller how are you faring with the jabs?

Frosticle how was DP?s face when you told him? How on earth did you manage to keep it to yourself at all ? I would have been bursting!

Mo well done negotiating your mw appointment ? be bossy tomorrow and make sure you get well looked after! You deserve nothing but A1 treatment.

Badger how is that lovely bump coming along? Do you have many appointments lined up anytime soon? Do you have your work finish date all lined up?

Ginger I?m so glad you seem to have been given some answers at your appointment. This whole experience is just so expensive isn?t it ? but right now, with our BFP, I?ve forgotten how much we?ve spent and all the holidays we?ve sacrificed. I?m sure you?ll feel the same when you get that sticky BFP!

Joy good luck with your appointment this week!!

Sasha how are you doing on the bench? Not long till OTD

Welcome Caipirinhas, hope the downreg is going okay so far. Weller is also downregging at the mo so you?ll be almost cycle buddies! Really best of luck to you ? you?ll find this thread such a huge support during your first round.

Sunny, Bugsy, Cat, Mini, Beginning how are you?

Hello to Hoops its so lovely you?re keeping an eye on us all as a mummy graduate ? hows David?

AFM well i'm praying that im still pregnant - nothing has happened but you can't help but wonder... Scan is next Monday (please God we see a heartbeat, or two ). I've had very mild nausea and tender - but that could be the meds I'm on... I'm having accupuncture weekly and she takes my pulse, she said on Friday that i definitely have the pulse of a pregnant woman and she could pick up another pulse... so one minute im really positive, next minute i'm fretting... to be expected given my crappy journey last time. But i have to believe this will work this time..

DSB

Hi mo good to hear little pip is doing well hope all goes well tomorrow!
I'm good I keep having little burst of excitement although generally thinking about it all the time! My boobs are killing me but other than that I feel fine, trying to resist looking at baby name books etc until my scan on the 30th :-)

Pocket jabs going ok on short protocol so having first scan tomorrow evening. Praying follies are looking good I have been having an awful time at work and been more stressed than ever
Stay positive I'm sure your scan will show a lovely heartbeat or two!

Hello to all and haven't seen Cat on here for a while or have I missed a post?

Pocket it's like the 2WW all over again, waiting for scans, isn't it! Your acupuncturist sounds like a gem. I really want to go back to mine but need to economise after giving all our money to the clinic - but increasingly feeling it may be a false economy and maybe she'll say she can feel two pulses on me too .

Beginning how lovely - enjoy the excitement!

Booking-in appointment was today and was a total farce! two midwives, one care assistant, 2.5 hours (jnc being left alone for 30 mins wondering what was going on) and no reassurance that I'm still pregnant, which I was desperately hoping for, and no advice on whether this is still a high miscarriage risk pregnancy or how to minimise risk (other than not rolling in cat poo or using pate as a face mask) but they are repeating all the blood tests my clinic have already done for syphilis, HIV, etc. So basically I'm getting all the things the system wants me to have but nothing tailored I actually needed - and they've put my 12 week scan, which should be next week, back to the end of the month to match Pip's apparent dates so it'll be even longer. Final straw was registering me as BMI 30, ie obese, without registering that I'm almost 3 months pregnant (I hope) and have been on high dose steroids, so have gained 4 kg since my starting weight - surely normal booking in weights are something like 6 wks pregnant? - anyway this apparently means I need glucose tolerance tests and a lot of daft faffing about when frankly I'd trade the lot for an intelligent talk and examination by someone who could tell me the chances of this whole thing being a going concern. Hoops you were right. Sorry about the rant - that does feel better though!

Love to all and good luck to Weller Caipurinas and Joyceps

Hi everyone, I hope no-one minds me popping back after such a long time to say hello In fact I'm not sure very many of you will remember me

I have been lurking for the last few weeks, and have been so pleased to see such a run of BFP's. Congratulations to you all, and may you all have long and uncomplicated pregnancies

I wanted to ask a question actually - we've just done our third cycle of IVF, and like the last two (fresh transfers) have ended up with positive pregnancy tests on 8 & 9dp3dt, only to start bleeding a few days later and for it all to be over. I am gutted this time to be honest. I really thought that it couldn't possible happen again . Nevertheless, here we are.
Has this happened to any of you girls, and if so what did the hospital say or do? I'm wondering whether steroids would help, or maybe something else? I have very low AMH (0.2) so presume it's the quality of my eggs - but this cycle they retrieved 9 eggs, so have been told to ignore AMH reading

I just don't know what to do now. My hospital doesn't really suggest any new ideas, so I would like to be able to approach them with a few to see what they say. Think I also might start taking DHEA and bee propolis. Does anyone have a good recommendation of DHEA to buy?

Thanks so much for any help/advice, I feel like I'm at the end of my tether with this. I so want it to work

Mo what a faff! I am disappointed for you they haven't given you anything sensible advice wise (and that you have to wait even longer for scan).

pocket best of luck for the scan. It is nerve wracking and I'd like to say each one gets easier, but I get nervous before each one. Have everything crossed for you.

I saw my gp yesterday which felt quite odd. Got to make midwife appointment now and also got a list of blood tests - there are even some on there I haven't had before which amazes me!

Hi to everyone else reading. Xx

Mo honey what a faff for you yesterday, I'm so sorry that you have to wait for your scan. What's wrong with these people. And the whole system. This is such a stressful time for us, you'd think there would be a bit more 'care' in healthcare wouldn't you!!

But Mo whilst you may not be happy with the obese/glucose thing, at least these may flag you for more attention. Use it all to get what you want.

DSB

Morning ladies,

Thanks for all the good wishes while I'm on this bench! I have a confession I had a tiny bit if spotting this morning so did my test a day early.... BFP! I've read that spotting can be normal?

Guess its another 2WW to confirm things. Still daren't get too excited!

x

Mo know it sounded like an unhelpful meeting with midwives at booking appointment, but compared to many you actually have done quite well - really!! The change from IVF (NHS or private) to maternity services is a real shock - but that is what all mums go through! 2.5hrs is ages, many only get 1hr (I got about 50mins), they don't bother with the pregnancy or miscarriage issues - a hard fact, but they say there is nothing they can do and all they deal with is what is on their tick lists basically (weigh, bloods etc). One good thing about your BMI at 30 means you will get an extra test - the blood glucose test, i know it sounds a faff but at least you can rule it out as an issue and know they are giving you what you should have. Once you are past 20 weeks the NHS seem to bother a bit more you will find!

I remember the time my midwife said to me "see you in 9 weeks" and I was in shock, but it is the level of care a healthy pregnant woman got (as was having a scan so didn't need to see her!), and it made me realise that although i had great trouble getting pregnant, once pregnant I was treated as healthy and had no special care (unless needed, eg for gestational diabetes etc!)

Sasha congratulations!!

Hoop in some ways what you say about treated as healthy by the nhs is reassuring - the clinics can make us paranoid with all their testing.

I bit the bullet and booked midwife and glad I did -10th December is first available appointment! !

Xx

Sasha congrats. Really really fab news.

Hoops ditto what Mini said about your words being reassuring . How we all long to be normal when it comes to ttc/pregnancy.

AFM just popped into clinic (they did a jab for me as DP is out tonight). And apparently I look tired and pregnant - Which after 8/9 hours sleep last night I am very happy with. All positive indications gratefully received.

Dsb

Sasha that is GREAT!!!!! our run of BFP's continues!! Massive massive congratulations - feet up, happy thoughts (if that's possible on progesterone) and enjoy xxxx

Monkey welcome back. I'm so so sorry about what you've been going through. It's called implantation failure, which I've had and know what it puts you through. It means that you have a viable embryo which starts implanting and then something happens which means it can't continue. It's a big warning for either immune issues (ie your body rejecting the embryo as an invading germ) or something physical like a thickened/scarred womb lining impeding implantation. Athough it could be an egg quality issue as well, the success of the early part of your cycle and the fact that you've had it 3 times suggests not. I would a) be really nice to yourself and give yourself time to recover and then b) check out immune issues and then ask your hopsital whether they will get you tested. If they won't, consider changing clinics - this is an emerging science and there are some docs/clinics who don't buy it, although increasingly the good ones are getting on the case. Save this page [[http://www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=7n27kmem1afhra1a7m09m2rq02&topic=242395.0 Fertility Friends Immunes FAQ] into your favourites for when you're feeling strong enough - it contains everything you need to know about immune testing and treatment although you might need to dip into it several times to understand it all. And come back and tell us how you're doing...

Thanks girls for sympathising re my midwife appt trauma! I suppose it's a nice problem to have - and I wouldn't mind being treated like a normal healthy pregnant woman (ie ignored) if they would just establish that I am one - I was just expecting there to be some sort of transition; last time I saw a medic they were telling me I was going to lose the baby, this time they were asking me what labour plan I wanted - all a bit pointless IMO at the moment. Well nyar to them, I have stuffy ears, revved up metabolism, dark nipples, foul temper, a pot belly and I'm damn well staying pregnant even if they're not going to help. So there.

Pocket hurrah for being tired and pregnant. Have you dared join any antenatal threads yet? I haven't...

Monkey here's that link again properly I hope - Ginger this is the one that you were after too.

Fertility Friends Immunes FAQ

well the good news keeps on coming here, which is absolutulely fantastic! sasha so thrilled for you about your BFP. I hope you are celebrating and enjoying this great news.

mo I'm really sorry about the faffing around you've had with your scan and the long wait till your next scan. I totally understand what the others have said, about being treated as a healthy pregnant woman (which is of course great) but I do feel that you had a right to have your concerns at least addressed particularly with the very long journey you've been. Don't get me wrong, I think the NHS is an amazing service, but just because it's free I'm not sure that means it's okay not to at least try and answer your questions/concerns. But anyway my dear, you definately are staying pregnant, and little mo is going to show them all!

Pocket yay you for looking tired and pregnant. Fantastic news!

Mini onwards and upwards to the midwife for you! So ARGC has relented their endless testing then?

monkey welcome back and I'm also very sorry about what has happened to you. Mo has given you some very good advice there. I'm only just starting to find out about immunes so I'm sorry I don't have much to add. Only that at this point I would definately be looking for further testing and more answers. Doing the same thing again I'm not sure that is the answer, something has to change. But as mo said, take some time to recover and we'll all be here to support you when you are ready to take the next step.

ginger sounds like your appointment gave you quite a lot to think about. Not cheap this fertility business eh? I know how you are feeling, because I think we may be heading the same way and the potential expense is scary. But what I think is even more scary, is not having that much wanted baby. But sticky beans we will have my dear, I know it.

Mo apologies, I was myself treating yourself like a normal pregnant person already (see the power of believing works!!). Can now understand your frustration. However, I guess as you have had scans there is nothing they can offer you apart from do the normal booking appointment. I know we had a big issue picked up on our 20 week scan, which showed our placenta wasn't working properly and had failed to implant properly on one side. As I was on intralipids for that very thing and had been signed off from the ivf clinic at 8wks pregnant I couldn't get more intralipids, NHS were not interested in that sort of thing and I was told, by a very nice consultant, to come back at 28 weeks. (Frustratingly a friend who had a normal conception, but had sadly miscarried two before 7 weeks was scanned at 6,12,16,20,24,28,32 weeks and I couldn't see why I wasn't) - and those weeks were awful, but actually I now know why they did it (the consultant told me later and it was true!!) that if the placenta continued to fail there was nothing they could do for me, and I may have had to make an awful decision about late abortion that might not be needed with time and she believed that it would just sort itself out and scanning was just causing more stress. I later discovered I was seeing the top consultant (as a result of my 20 week scan that caused so much alarm at the hospital but they also kept that from me!) at the hospital and she was totally right - as the friend who was regularly seen, scanned and worried about everything had an absolutely awful and stressful pregnancy (was told from scans she was expecting a giant, ended up with a 7lb baby!!) and I had a lovely, happy pregnancy and all the right checks (I did catch an awful infection due to other reasons and had great care for that at 30 weeks!!) It was only after birth I was told they never thought I would carry to term and I am forever grateful that I was given the chance of as happy a pregnancy as possible, as not likely to have a 2nd chance at that!

Sorry for essay!!!!!

Hi everyone, it was suggested I post here after I posted last night. I have just had a failed FET (and failed fresh cycle in June). Since then I have been having endometrial biopsies as apparently my lining is "out of phase" so I've just had FET on a medicated (HRT) cycle and then my embryos were transferred 4 days later than usual, giving me 4 extra days of progesterone to get my lining "in phase" and ready for the embryos.

Has anyone else been diagnosed with an "out of phase" endometrium? Essentially, this means that where the endometrium should contain a protein around 7 days after ovulation which allows for implantation, my lining is 4/5 days behind so when the embryo is ready to implant in a natural cycle, my lining isn't ready for it - doesnt contain the protein - and has all the properties of only 2/3 days after ovulation.

I did a couple of mock cycles and had a biopsy or 2 during each cycle until the results came back "in phase". We followed the same protocol for FET - but it failed. I know this could just be bad luck but how much faith do you put in one clinic before you head out there for a second opinion?

The awful thing is that everything went well but for a fresh and frozen cycle we have ended up with nothing. It was only after the fresh cycle failed that I was diagnosed as being out of phase so perhaps I should count the FET as out first go..

I responded well to drugs and produced 11 eggs, 9 fertilised and all to day 5. We transferred one blastocyst for the fresh cycle - BFN and then 2 were transfered for frozen cycle. Both frozen ones survived well (100% - this one was hatching and 80% with both showing signs of recovery).

Everything is always perfect until the test day - I worried it will not happen over and over again...

Thanks for reading - any input would be welcomed..

Good luck to everyone xx

Hi everyone. Haven't posted for ages, but it seems many of you are getting that elusive BFP - congratulations to you all.

I just wanted to give my word of reassurance to Mo about NHS MW care. It is a bit of a shock after all the attention you've had during your clinic treatments, but I too was welcomed into the system with the same attitude - you are healthy and pregnant, we we will treat you as all other healthy pregnant ladies. I'm so glad that they are, as with hoop you actually get to enjoy the pregnancy once it's more established and i get to have a birth plan of my choice rather than just made up plan they may have for IVF prefnancies, like some places have. They didn't listen to HB until 16 weeks, but I think NICE guideline now says they should wait until 20 weeks as it can be too difficult at times to pick up the hB even at 16 weeks using a dopler and will potentially cause undue stress. I didn't want to get a Doppler myself, as I thought I would just cause myself more stress. Many do though.

I also have to say that when ever I've called the MW service for advise, outside of my appointments, they have always been really helpful and friendly and my GP service has been there when needed, so I really can't fault it.

Now, I of course had all the additional attention from ARGC at the same time to start with and we opted for additional scans elsewhere up to 20 weeks, so you may want to consider that. Does your clinic offer any additional support at this stage, just to put your mind at rest? Oh, and I had to take the glucose test too, it's pretty standard regardless of your weight, so don't worry about it.

I guess I'm trying to say that take their response as positive and maybe look for advice from your GP or your clinic for your concerns. You're doing great!

A big wave to pocket, sunnyg, minih, weller and hoop and others. We're 33 weeks here, bump getting bigger by the day and mummy having to admit I need to start to slow down a bit. Our little boy is super active, so we're gearing up to welcoming one wriggly baby!