TTC Super Ovulation part 2

[suemays]

hey ladies,

There are a few of us who are ttc after mc's, however there will be ladies out there who are also ttc for the first time or second or third without success. If anyone is on, considering or had success on a super ovulation programme then do join us. How long did it take ? Did you try IUI with it.. ? Did you have PCOS?

Kicking this off and hoping some of you will join....

part 1 here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/conception/1385998-TTC-Super-Ovulation

Fantastic brown, that sounds positive! (if you'll excuse the completely unintended pun) ...

Sadly Clear Blue says no. Oddly I was going to post on here yesterday to ask if anyone else uses the cheapie sensitive internet tests that are used by the NHS apparently. They have a blue top end of the stick and the ovulation tests have a green one.
In my obsessive peerings each month I often have some that get faint grey lines at the test area, not a full-depth line, just an evaporation line. Does anyone get that? I've learned to never get excited about those. But these two this morning were full depth, albeit very faint.

Clearblue is less sensitive than FRER remember - IIRC to 25miu where FRER is something like 5-10 miu. I know some ladies swear by those cheapie internet tests; for me, I stick to FRER (and Clearblue when I'm further along. Although that doesn't seem to be happening these days!).

I debated in the chemist's between Clear Blue and First Response, but went for Clear Blue digital because it says 'Pregnant' or 'Not pregnant', and I thought there'd be no peering for ambiguous second lines as there is with the others. The internet cheapies are supposed to be 25 as well, so perhaps there's still some hope. I'm feeling very 'womby' this morning but maybe that's the progesterone pessary I used as soon as I thought I saw the lines this morning!

Am having a bit of a freak out looked at dr google and have convinced myself am perimenopausal and barren based on my recent blood tests and Mr S on holiday

Hi lemon do you mind sharing your results? I've had those tests done for the last three months and my FSH has ranged from 19.4 to 12.2 so the results fluctuate quite significantly each month. Also, to give you hope, I am now a tiny 4+3 weeks pregnant with an Fsh of 16.4 after SO. Massive potential for things to go wrong still but I had the same fears as you and certainly wasn't expecting anything to happen this month. I hope that calms your fears a bit. I think Dr Google has a lot to answer for sometimes.

My FSH and LH was good. FSH 7.1 LH 6.5
oestradiol 126.

GP had said all was OK. But reading on google oestrdiol should be under 50 and anything over 100 is regarded has significantly abnorm when day 3. The high oestradiol is suppressing the FSH and is causing an artificially low FSH. That is what dr google said. Only turned 36 last week, and yet this seems to suggest my ovaries are significantly failing. Think Mr S will say to give up or do the use donor egg speech.

bellyD congrats on the pregnancy and does make me feel better that can work when FSH is high

lemon I know that anything below 10 for FSH is great and your LH is fine too. I am not sure about the Oestradial simply because I don't know enough about it, but I am pretty certain that I have had a result over 100 which Mr S said was fine. Please don't worry, I think you are a long way off from the DE speech. You are looking in pretty good shape to me, and if your Oest is too high I am sure they will be able to do something about is as it is a hormone. As far as I understand it, the FSH is the really important number, and that is perfect.

bellyD thanks for that. It was just from reading google, it was saying the ovaries should be quiet at day 3 so you should have a low oestradiol. If the oestradiol is high over 75, then basically it will lower your fsh, giving a normal result when in fact your ovarian reserves are poor. But I feel better that MrS said it was OK and like you said I just need one egg

Lemon when I discussed my day 3 results with Mr S he said good results were FSH < 8 and E2 < 200

Thank you so much Care feel like a complete idiot now. Will trust the power of Dr S words over goggle.

Trouble with Dr Google is there are SO many conflicting reports out there. I answered on the Pred thread lemon but truly, try not to worry - your results look good as far as I can see but even if you were peri-menopausal it doesn't mean you're not fertile. FF is full of ladies happily pregnant with higher FSH levels than yours (by a long way) - peri-menopause doesn't mean you cannot conceive any more, simply that the body is beginning its process of winding down. There will still be many more eggies just waiting their chance. Least I hope so, since I think that's probably where I am! :)

Well ladies, reporting back after my appt with Mr S today. Apart from the fact that it appears only my left ovary is working, it hid - Mr S couldn't find it! It took two separate internal scans and an abdominal one before he eventually found it. Poor chap was really good about it, I felt quite bad for him, but he was persistent and found it in the end! Did anyone know your ovaries could hide? I certainly didn't.

Well I haven't responded as well to the Letrozole this month, 2 follies last month but just the one this month. 20mm on day 11 though, so crossing fingers it's Super Follie :) Mr S wants me on gonal-f along with the Letrozole next time - well actually the cycle after as I will be on hol when I should be having my next follie scan so Mr S didn't want me starting a diff medication without it being monitored. So just Letrozole again next cycle, if my Super Follie doesn't do the trick this month.

I told Mr S I've sent a sample off to Athens for infection testing; he was fine about it, just said that the labs here he's spoken to have all said they don't do those tests because they believe they're too open to different interpretation and don't believe they're worth doing. However Mr S does appear to be very open to the idea of more testing; OH and I are being tested for LAD, DQa and karyotyoing, and OH is being tested for SA and DNA fragmentation. Mr S then asked if there was anything else we thought we should be tested for, he was quite happy to add others. I asked about having a hysteroscopy, he said he didn't think it was probably necessary for me but thought it is probably worth doing if only to rule it out. So I have to clear it with my insurance company (crossing fingers they'll agree to it) then try to schedule it in for the cycle after next, since holiday timing means I'll miss the window for it

Mr S was telling me one of his ladies (success story) had 24 miscarriages before having her baby. 24 .. can you imagine the strength that woman must have to have kept going?? Incredible.

brownstag any further testing news??

Hi ladies,

Ari one of 20mm sounds quite good, that's quite a big one. I'm not quite sure I understand why producing 2 or 3 at a time is better than just one, other than giving you more chances, I can't see that it improves conditions if that makes sense.

I've just had my results back from Athens, and have tested positive for 3 different bacterial infections. Its a bit confusing when someone like MR S has said there's nothing in these tests. I'm just waiting for advice back from Penny on what treatment is recommended. I'm not sure what to do if the advice is conflicting with the SO treatment plan - i.e. if they recommend stopping the SO and taking antibiotics should I do that even though Mr S would recommend the opposite!?? Any thoughts welcome. Ari have you had your results yet?

Carebear that is interesting! I hope this will give you some answers. Do you mind me asking how you went about getting those tests? Did you contact Athens directly? How long did it all take?

If you can't run the antibs alongside SO, personally I would postpone the SO to take the antibs. You have a possible answer now. If embryos are failing to implant because of these infections, and they are what are raising your NK cell count, then it seems logical to me to treat the infections first before carrying on with assisted conception. Just my view, of course. I'm really excited for you that you might have found an answer. You are similar to me I think but a little further down the line? (i.e. never had a BFP and tried various forms of assistance).

Arian did you have those additional tests done through Mr S? I thought he only focussed on NK cells and I would have to go to Gorgy for things like DQa.

thanks Euro - that's what i was thinking to do, nice to hear someone else say the same (no point talking to DH he just says 'do whatever') and its not helpful these doctors disagree with each other! it would make sense wouldn't it if infections are causing the NK cell rise and stopping implantation - yes i'm the same as you in that never had a bfp but all hormone levels and SA results in the 'very good' range.

I rang the athens clinic directly www.serum-ivf.com/ - they seemed non-surprised to get a phonecall from england - and they said to just put the sample in the post along with a letter giving my name, DOB, address and what infections i wanted testing for (i just said 'everything') - they took my email address and emailed me the detail of their bank account and the price, 270 euro). I just did an internet bank transfer and emailed them to confirm. I was very impressed in that they emailed me as soon as they received the sample to let me know, emailed me when the payment had gone through etc. I sent the sample off on day 2 and i'm now day 11. I'll keep you posted with what treatment they recommend.

Hi all, Just a quick update from me. For the past 4 SO treatments only the first showed up anything on the left ovary and the follies were too small. SO scans 2 - 4 only showed follies on my right. Started with 3 on the first occassion and then for the last few times I have had only 1 follie albeit a good size one. Went to see Dr S today for scan. This time I took Gonal F and Letrozole. To my surprise I had 2 24mm follies on my left and none on my right. Dr S said that it looks like the Gonal F had kickstarted my left ovary. V strange. I see this as a good omen i.e. seen as though I haven't got a BFP from my right side perhaps the eggs are better quality this time round on the left. Anyway Ari I guess I am on more or less the same cycle as you and therefore I guess we will be both busy over the next couple of days. By the way luckily I didn't get any side effects with the Gonal F. Also Dr S said if I need it next month then I can pick it up from their Epsom clinic at a cost of £90 which is better than the £142 I paid at boots. He said that if I don't get a BFP this time then we could discuss what to do next at the next SO scan. I am assuming he means IUI (or whatever it is called or IVF). Anyway good luck to all TTC's.

lemonsherbert, I had exactly the same reaction as you. My results were very similar to yours, and I must have read the same websites as you, after which I went from being quite happy to totally depressed. That night I didn't sleep and just lay there thinking it was time to give up the idea of a baby and accept what I'd got in life. I wasn't even going to bother going to see Mr S. But when I saw Mr S, he completely swept those fears away.
Ari, thanks for asking; First Response also said no, and I'm now on day 1 of what promises to be a heavy, painful period (since I've had my son, they've been light and painless, which I've always found worrying, as prior to my son they were heavy and painful). I still have one of the tests with the faint lines on, which I shall keep to remind myself not to get excited by anything resembling it in future! The line must have been an evaporation line, although it was the full-width and depth of the test area. But it was faint grey, not pink.
I really think I need to get these Athens tests done too ...
Do we know anyone who has had success after being treated for these infections?

Hi ladies .. carebear very interesting to hear it picked up 3 infections. Can I ask please, are you having to pay extra to get the results interpreted/advice from Penny? Only I read on the FF advice that they charge an extra 100 euros (on top of the 270 euros) to interpret and issue a prescription, which I find really quite a lot of money! I haven't got my results yet because they only received my sample yesterday, I have to do the bank transfer to pay them.

euro Yes I'm having the extra tests done through Mr S at TDL - he was very happy to discuss extra tests, to my surprise, and on talking to Louise before I saw him she mentioned that he's always on the lookout for new angles and tests. He actually mentioned a new sperm test that he's looking into with the lab in Spain, but he said he wants to see more data before considering actually using it. I was very reassured by his attitude, to be honest.

abney Really interesting to hear the gonal-f kickstarted your previously dormant ovary! I wonder if it might do the same for me? Thing is, as far as I know my right ovary has never worked - how would I know? My DD might be the result of an egg from the left, I would never know.

brownstag Ah, I'm sorry to hear that, those faint lines are a real bummer :( I don't know anyone personally who has had success after the infection treatment, but there are several ladies on the Fertility Friends that have had success, don't know them personally but that sounds good to me! Also several ladies who said their AFs returned properly after clearing up the infections.

Only slight concern for me is the 25-day regime of anti-bs for you and partner, plus they say to use 'barrier contraception' for the whole time. Hum.

Thanks Ari; these tests are on menstrual blood, aren't they? I'm on day 2 at the moment; is there enough time to get it sorted this month? Presumably they won't be there at the weekend, and I usually have a 4-day period.

Brownstag i would just organise your sample and put it in the post to them, and ring them on monday to say you're sending it and can they email you the details of how to pay.

Absolutely brownstag, as carebear says, get your sample collected and post off to them, if you pm me your email address I'll mail you the instruction doc Penny sent me if you haven't got it? As I said before though it's a couple of drops of blood or so, mix with 5 to 10 ml saline, wrap so it doesn't get damaged and enclose a note with what you want testing.

Well, I think we aren't in with a chance already. I triggered Thu night so should have ovulated 36 hours later, which would have been around d 10am this morning. However, I have had no OV pains at all - and I always get quite strong pains, every month without fail - so I assume I haven't ovulated at all :(. Guess this just wasn't my month.

Ari you never know, could be the letrozole that's changed your pains. I had virtually no period pains this month for the first time ever.