TTC 10 plus months, Part 7

[lisacn]

A friendly, supportive thread for those of us who are taking a bloody long little longer time than average to conceive.

www.audleytravel.com/Inspiration.aspx

Just quick but euro assume that link is for me? thanks!

And woah woah woah purple, antibiotics for malaria?? 2 birds, 1 stone

Got to go to a meeting, more later.

ARGH. MN is doing strange things! I just wrote a huge post and then lost it. Grrrr. And then I copied the link above into the text box planning to write a load of stuff around it and it just posted without me touching the post button!

That link was for Nelly. It's a widget on the Audley website to help with travel info. You can filter by region and type of holiday (beach, wildlife, etc) but unfortunately not by whether or not it is malarial but it was that together with malarial maps that helped us found Belize for our holiday earlier in the year. BTW there are some malarial drugs that can be taken when pregnant/ttc if really necessary but I decided against anyway. Ah, I see since typing this, Purple has been asking about this. I think during pregnancy at least the view is that it is less risky to take the meds than to contract malarial while pregnant, but if you can avoid them you should, and there are certain kinds that definitely have to be avoided. I know the antibiotic one you mention - Dioxy something or other I think. In fact, that is what I was prescribed for my HSG after much faffing by the drs because I was allergic to the standard one.

BTW, I had my smear during shag week as I didn't want it during the 2ww as it can cause cramping. But given the result maybe that wasn't a good idea! We had had a particularly vigorous bout of swi about 36 hrs before my test. I am wishfully thinking that some bruising or inflammation from that caused the abnormal result. Maybe right at the beginning of the 2ww, before anything has a chance to implant, is a better time?

carrie I am glad you managed to dtd so the month wasn't wasted, but it is awful that you were in so much pain and were treated so shoddily by the hospital.

joycep I find the infection stuff really interesting. I think if this IVF round doesn't work we will be off to see Mr Gorgy. I know the woman on the Pred thread who recently saw him after having treatment for high NK cells with Mr S felt that she had wasted time treating the symptom rather than the cause. I am wondering whether I have been doing the same.

I'm sorry your mum hasn't been supportive. Mine is similar - normally very sensible and supportive but has an odd attitutude to IVF. I would have thought having her own problems (I'm an only and she miscarried 4 after me) might have made her sympathetic but apparently not. I'm normally pretty close to her, but I haven't told her that we are having IVF because I can't face dealing with the disapproval on top of everything else.

The menopausal cervix is due to the IVF drugs. The downregging drugs are designed to send you into a temporary (I bloody hope) menopause.... I find the whole process pretty repulsive tbh. I just had a counselling session at my clinic. The counsellor was lovely, but I didn't learn anything I didn't already know - I simply don't want to do IVF but I am forcing myself to because it is the logical thing to do at this point.

Artemis I got as far as collecting my HSG antiobiotics but decided against taking them. But I have been eyeing them up too....

I felt like the Letrozole buggered up my cycles too. And if you are ovulating, those drugs have a really negligible effect on conception rates from what I read. So I gave it three months and then stopped.

I know a couple of you have mentioned that you have been interested in reading my whines posts about IVF. I'm now on day 9, with 8 lots of downregging drugs in me (I take them late at night so haven't had today's yet). I think yesterday was my worst day mood-wise. I started bleeding this morning, so I think it was uber-pmt! I still feel quite low, but not as bad as I did yesterday. The boob pain has eased off a little too, although running for the bus earlier, without a sports bra, was not the best idea I have had.

My period was about 3 days late. It was v odd. I started cramping when I would ordinarily have expected to, on Thursday, and expected ERTD Friday, maybe Saturday, but it just didn't appear. I'm glad it has turned up now so I won't bleed all over the scan room next Monday...

Oh blimey, it's busy today. I have to shoot off to do post and then bomb my way up to see the 'rents for dinner as they are over from Craggy Island (a.k.a. The Isle of Man) and haven't seen them for a while.

So, v. quick name check:
Joycep at the mum's gossiping and the lack of support. Although maybe in a warped way it's your mum saying that you are perfect i.e. no way do you need medical help. I'm sure my mum feels like that and that she somehow failed in a weird way (e.g. was it something she did when pregnant, something she fed me growing up... I don't think the mentalling ever ends). It's the only logical explanation for her very indignant "But I don't have any of those sorts of problems" attitude to everything. I quite often feel guilty about slagging my mum off too because she is a rock of support in so many other ways but we have always clashed over somethings because we are quite similar and she is rubbishing at dealing with me when upset. The antibiotic stuff is really fascinating. I hope that you can get some antibiotics from your doctor re husbands infection and that will cure the problem.

Euro I'm sorry that the IVF thing is bothering you. You are incredibly sensible and measured with all of your advice and seem to seamlessly cope when things don't go your way. I am in awe. I bet you would have been a better councilor to the councilor this morning. And I second Buzzy in saying that you will be a trifik mum :)

Carrie sorry for the rough weekend and the doctor. I've got my FX for a BFP for you this month. Good luck with the 2ww.

Ladygee sorry the family stuff continues. Not what you need right now!

Purple a nurse once told me that they asked about pregnancy before doing a smear, not because it's dangerous but because if you miscarry or if there is a complication you would always blame them. She said it's perfectly safe. Perhaps doesn't quite answer your question.... I hope you fob them off successfully.

Buzzy glad you had a productive counseling sesh. Hope Mr B is getting better. Sorry for rubbish MIL over the weekend. And hope you get your next round of treatment sorted soon.

Hocus hello again! Glad the lap went ok. Although the walking into the op theatre sounds terrifying. I think I would have passed out or vommed!!! FX for the next 3 months.

Right sorry for not getting 'round everyone. I'll be back tomorrow.

In Princess world, it's CD15, I have two days of full on EWCM and I've never had anything like it before! I keep feeling like my period's here and dreading that it's mid-cycle bleeding again. Also, there is an extremely faint line on my OPK this afternoon (in the face consultant) and I should get a dark line tomorrow, which will be a day earlier than last month or maybe I'll have 4 days of EWCM and the strong line will be on CD17 like last month. Any-which-way my temp chart is looking normal, I've got oodles of EWCM and the faint line - which is all super positive. Plus I checked my chart against a text book chart in TCOYF and it's looking pretty text book so far. I'm really struggling to stay away from SWI.... only one month to go now

Right off to do post and drive up to Surreh....xxx

Hi all,

Rough week on here for everyone. Come on big finger! Where are you?

joyce I am furious on your behalf about your DM and MIL discussing you like that. Aaaargh. I really think that some people just don't understand at all, and unfortunately there is nothing that can be done to make them understand. We saw Mr C's somewhat quirky grandmother on Saturday for her birthday - she'd had a few bevvies and she asked us straight out in front of numerous extended family members 'what's the problem? where are my great-grandbabies?' Mr C's uncle stood up for us and said 'You can't ask them that' and she said 'I don't care, I'm 86 and I want to know!' I told her that you can't order them off Amazon but I don't think she was really listening. She told us that she was going to send us some of the water from Arkansas as that's where her sister lives and said sister has 14 great grandkids. Erm, thanks. I really think some members of the older generation have no idea.
Also add me to the list of people who are fascinated by the infections stuff. It really does make sense and it annoys me no end that there seems to be an attitude among some people in the medical profession that if they haven't learnt it in med school, it can't be possible. I'll be interested to hear what else you uncover.

euro sorry to hear how crap you're feeling about the IVF process. It does sound shitty. I think you're being very brave in these horrible circumstances, and agree with buzzy and euro that some little person is going to be extremely lucky to have you as a mum soon. Fingers crossed for good news from the gyno.

carrie I am [shocked] about your experience with the doctor. Good on you for standing up to the doc, and for swi through the pain. I really hope that this is your month.

frannie welcome back, we have missed you!

mrsden grrr about the inlaws visit. I couldn't imagine putting mine up for that long. You must have the patience of a saint!

hopeful sorry to hear about your MC and welcome back. I know you'll find a lot of support here from these wonderful women.

artemis clomid is vile stuff, and I'm annoyed that you haven't been monitored on it. I have to say - this past cycle where I've had scans and blood work has been a million times better than my previous three where I had no idea what was going on - as it turned out, nothing was going on. Is there any way you can push for more monitoring? If you can, I really, really would. It's bloody strong stuff and given that most doctors only want you to take it for 6 months, surely it would make sense that if you do another two cycles, you have all the support and monitoring possible to make sure that it's working correctly.

lemon anniversaries like that are horrible. So sorry to hear that you're having a crappy time with your boss on top of everything else. I am doing everything I can to waft some hot weather across the Atlantic to you.

hocus sorry to hear about your emotional lap. I haven't had one but I would be scared shitless and it sounds like you dealt with it very well! I'm glad that the nurses were nice to you. Not fun.

nelly I went to Maui on my honeymoon and it was ridiculously beautiful although a very long way away. But the South Sea islands sound stunning too. I would love to go to Bali one day.

lady sorry to hear about the family drama - sounds super stressful. Lovely to 'see' you here again!

princess amazing that your cycle is doing what it oughta! Well done you with the brown diet. It really sounds like all your hard work has been paying off - I have high hopes for you when you finish your three-month hold-off-swi stage.

purple commiserations on the arrival of CD1. It is crap.

I'm on CD22 and had my progesterone level tested today with a blood test - 12.5, which is apparently good - the nurse said it needs to be over 10 to support a pregnancy. I asked her if that meant I ovulated and she said it would be highly unlikely that I didn't because I had the trigger shot. I don't feel any different at all, though, so I'm not symptom spotting as there are zero symptoms to spot. I go back in for a preg test next Monday, but am not getting my hopes up - given that this is, in a way, my first cycle in spite of having been ttc since last April. Feeling calm though, probably because I'm not expecting anything to happen. We had a nice day at the beach yesterday - there's a teeny one about an hour from DC - and managed to skive off going to a baby shower on Saturday.

How are you doing teu, wine, beryl, et al? Thinking of everyone and really hoping that things perk up for the 10+ers soon.

Oh did anyone read the piece in the Atlantic that everyone's been talking about here? I'd be interested to hear what you all think. She says it took her three years to conceive her first child - very interesting stuff about women's choices.

Thanks ladies for all your encouragement and welcomes - much appreciated. Must confess I've been a bit rubbish at keeping on track of what's going on on this v busy thread as I've not been online all day (day off work spending time with my mum - happy days). But I promise to do better in future and try and keep up with all the various goings-on.

Have gynae test tomorrow morning....first step in the "checking machinery is working" bonanza. Feeling a lot more relaxed about it for all the wise words and sound advice on MN. Oh and the glass of vino probably isn't doing any harm either :-)

xx

Aw, ladies. You are all lovely. I have never considered myself a naturally maternal type so it is nice to hear that some of you who have met me and some of you who know me via this place think I will be a good mum to any euret(te)s.

Critter it's great that you oved! BTW, if you see people discussing progesterone levels needing to be over 30 on here, ignore them. The US tests use a different scale. (Apologies if you already know this, I discovered it when googling my own test results last year.) I had seen The Atlantic article. It was posted on some legal forums where successful women at the top are particularly rare. It is particularly bad in the legal field because most firm only give one big promotion after you qualify (to partner) and that tends to fall around the mid-30s, i.e. at the worst possible time for women.

Must go to bed, but just quick check in to say that the eurettes made me go Awwwwwww :). I haven't met you, but I agree with 100% certainty you'll be a great mum, euro. In fact we all will. That's the heartbreaking thing with this thread that everyone that's on it is so lovely, how can the universe think denying you lovely lot babies is in anyone's best interests?

And we may have a winner on the honeymoon! Need to sort out something tomorrow but if I can work it, will reveal all .

Oh have been spotting a bit. Not much, but also bad headache which I also had last month, so guess I'll be out soon. Have to say honeymoon planning is distracting me somewhat, mind you.

Morning all

Good news on the honeymoon planning Nelly! Hope you have a winner.

Princess hurrah for the EWCM! I hope you have given Mr P another expert demonstration And the faint lines and textbook charts. All sounding very positive. This time next month it will be all systems go and the big finger will have to wake up!

Hocus don't worry about keeping up! We all find the same thing, this thread moves fast. Well done on your lap, I would have been really freaked out by the walk to the theatre! It's good news that they have zapped the endo and that you have a 15% greater chance for the next few months. Did the nurse say why you have more likelihood of getting pg after the lap?

Lemon I've been told they won't do the HSG later than CD12 which leaves a very small window of opportunity after AF. I don't know why that is though - whether it's just to make sure you can't possibly be pregnant or something to do with your cervix being more open pre-ov? If it's the former I will be pretty fecking annoyed as it's my blatant inability to get pregnant that is the reason for the test in the first place! Not getting pregnant is not a difficult challenge for me... I couldn't get to speak to anyone yesterday but am going to try again today and see if I can book ahead with projected dates, or do a bit of foot-stamping and see if it gets me anywhere.

Joycep I am so sick of that 'it will happen when you stop thinking about it' approach. We have tried both the not-thinking and the thinking and neither has resulted in a baby. My acu once started telling me how I should slow down and drop some of the things I do, 'make space in my life for a baby' and gently implied that maybe I couldn't get pregnant because I didn't want it enough... I had to challenge her over that, it's so unhelpful, like what I really need right now is the suggestion that barrenness is my own fault and a great big baby-shaped hole in my life... grr. I am pondering whether to take the anti-bs even if I can't have the HSG. I am starting to feel desperate again, urgh. I'm impressed at your resolve - I feel the same as you do, I don't want IVF when there's no good reason, but time is running out and I don't really know where to start with the world of private treatment and investigation. I don't think being in the north helps with that; much of the research and good private clinics seem to be in London.

Critter that's great you have a positive prog result. I don't understand why they leave clomid unmonitored particularly when I hear about Carrie's experience. Joycep I was given clomid because of irregular cycles, though they only varied by a couple of days. Of the two progesterone blood tests I had before I was prescribed it one showed I had ovulated and the other was taken at the wrong time to be of any use. Ironically my cycles have been even less regular on clomid than they were before. I think the main reason it was prescribed is that it's easy and cheap and the first line of defence against the unexplained. I have had 4 cycles with 2 more to go. I'm supposed to start it today but I don't see the point when I'm not being monitored to check it's working and they don't even know if my tubes are OK.

I'm very meh today. There seems to be a lot of it about. A huge meh to spotting, ERTDs, rude and unsympathetic relatives, missing consultants, unwanted house guests, 2-year TTC anniversaries, wedding and preg announcements... I checked FB this morning to another grinning photo of the happy couple on their wedding day with new sprog. Yet another couple who have been together about half the time of me and Mr A. I'm sure I will pick myself up again in a couple of days but right now I'm sick of being a barren spinster. It's not fair...

Morning all,

Princess had her first very small last night (1986 viognier - rude not to) and well, didn't really enjoy it. . Perhaps if I could have had a straw I would have got back into the swing of things though. Still it was nice to see my parents and brother. And my Mum bought me some lovely Ren goodies.

Critter Good news on OV and great US prog levels! FX for a BFP when you go back to the clinic. Loving your calm and pragmatic attitude. Still very jealous of your posh clinic with furniture made from rich mahogany. Really interesting article - thanks for posting. I really get what she is saying. I've never pushed for an uber career because I've always wanted a family. In fact I switched from media to finance because I thought it would be more manageable in terms of hours and flexibility (at 25 in preparation of babies in the next couple of years ). But I am a feminist and I think it's a shame that so many interpret / corrupt being feminist as being like a man / man hater / lesbian To me being a feminist is about having choices and being treated equitably. I don't judge those who want to fly to the top or those who stay at home. I'm capable of doing my job as well as (if not better than some of) my male peers. I take my work seriously and when taking professional exams in my previous job, trounced my male counterparts (82% first time passes compared to their failing the same paper 3 - 4 times before scraping through with a 57% pass) Not blowing my own trumpet but I think I see how seriously I do need to take my professional development to be able to balance my life in the future - I don't think men are under the same pressure and that's what irks me. I'm glad I had the choice to go to university, to dither around in my 20s training in film production, trying out media jobs, dipping my toe in and out of relationships and not being tied down to a man because society told me to do so. Yet I do see the pressure that we are put under especially when it comes to the family / work / relationship see-saw. Thanks for posting - food for thought and an introduction to an interesting online magazine, which I hadn't heard of before. And I am at your DHs Grandma?!??!?! If the water from Arkansas works tho...send some over? Old people can be so rude. My OHs Nan is known as being a spiteful old hairy lipped cowbag. She always goes on, and on, and on, and on, and on about DH being gay. He isn't. He had long hair as a teenager and a nose piercing and admittedly looked girly and is very musical and arty (mid 90s androgynous trend?). Metro maybe. Gay definitely not. Far too many gfs and an very healthy appreciation of girl bits. We have plenty of gay friends who are terrified by vaginas and recoil in horror at the thought of lady bits (because they might have teeth?) Anyway, it really got to me one Xmas day when my vintage Veuve given as a special thank you treat was relegated to the back of the kitchen because they had 'posh' M&S cava in especially Xmas lunch (i.e. my offering wasn't good enough because it didn't have an M&S on the label - heathens - DH still laughs about this to this day esp the bit where I drunkenly cried to my dad down the phone, "Daddy,they didn't have proper champagne, blinis and smoked salmon, it's not like proper Xmas at home") so after my glass of cava and as it was Xmas day, I sat and polished off a bottle of proper champers to myself and after several spiteful comments from the Nan in her thick Somerset accent, finished off by "put a bit of that Wham on, Mr P will love a bit of that...." I looked her in the eye and said rather loudly (and probably slurred), "I always wondered why he turns me over in bed and makes me bite the pillow" Oh I felt so much better though. And she hasn't said anything in front of me since. Nan's eh?

Hopeful good luck with your appointment today.

Nelly can't wait to hear about honeymoon plans.

Euro The Eurettes made me go awwww too. Lovely stuff and hopefully not too far away either.

In other news, the line on the OPKs is getting stronger but still fairly faint and my temp was still low this morning, suggesting ov tomorrow / Thursday. So ov on CD17 or CD18 then - just like last month and just as I told the consultant . My 7 DPO test will be on 5 DPO or 4 DPO. Does this matter? Do any of you know? I guess that my prog will start rising after ov, so it will give them some sort of indication. I daren't tell the consultant for fear of being told off about using sticks / charting / checking my CM / obsessing because I crazy hysterical lady who needs to loosen her corset and carry smelling salts . If he knew what this was like first hand, I reckon that like me he would be fascinated and happier and reassured that one's body appears to be doing all of the correct and proper things. I feel so much better to see lines on sticks, healthy CM and charts showing a biphasic pattern. I so hope that I'm upduffed before the next appointment with the arrogant man in September. Or maybe if not I will ask him with dead pan face for some baby dust and take a magic wand with me.

Oh and bestie is off to the docs today for her check-up. FX for happy news later. Let's all send her positive vibes.

And if anyone was thinking about it, don't call your child Chakra. Not cool and yes, I heard that one in the Supermarket the other day.

Right-ho waves to you all. Onwards with my day :)

Sorry you are feeling Meh artemis, I know how you feel. I am hurtling towards the 2 year mark here, coupled with yet another birthday (one that puts you into the next bracket of IVF stats, and not in a good way); and just fed up of it all.

Hello to hopeful - you'll get as much hand holding as you need here. I hope your stay is short, in the nicest possible way of course :)

Hooray for the positive progesterone result critter - always good to get a positive anything. Who was it that said they were going to POAS during IVF just to see that second line. Oh I know that feeling, I have considered it myself many a time. I don't really use OPKs but the couple of times I have, I've obviously timed it wrong so not even seen a smiley face on those. Meh indeed.

Welcome back to ladygee. Good that family troubles are lessening but not so great about having a house guest.

Need to get back to booking my honeymoon work, but just had to come on here to tell you this. Was just on our daily "work round-up" call where we chat about all the key happenings of the day etc. Got told an announcement would be coming out about changes to annual leave policies. My initial reaction was to worry that they'd cut the maximum time you could have off, ie focussed on the honeymoon. But no, lots of other changes, then my male boss said oh one about IVF (in a tone of voice that was sort of incredulous) then there was a general sniggering from everyone on the call, and I heard a muttering along the lines of "can't imagine that applies to anyone" type comment. Well, obviously my colleagues have written me off in the Not Maternal category! And now I'm dying to know what the new bloody policy says .

Back later.

Artemis they usually won't do it after ov because there is a risk that is there is an embryo there, it could get washed into the fallopian tube or abdominal cavity by the procedure and develop there. But yes, it is inconvenient. When I had mine, I was ending to bleed for 8 or 9 days, so the windo to fit it in was tiny. I was really lucky to manage it the first month of trying. It was just after the August bank holiday last year so I reckon a lot of people were away, which probably helped.

I'm with you on how it just isn't fair. As nelly says, we will all be wonderful mothers. Surely much better than some of the feckless breeders you see around the place. Come on, universe, sort it out!

My ttc has come of age - it's cycle 21...

X post Artemis I'm really sorry you are feeling down. Here have a and a jammie dodger (not cat bum). It is all rubbish. But keep pestering the hospital for the HSG. Sometimes, it can be a case of getting the nice person on the end of the phone rather than the jobsworth wanker. Can you get your GP to put any pressure on them? Maybe some tears and this is making me feel so stressed and unwell can help? Totally understand the whole they have been in a relationship for half the time... I've watched my bestie get married and pregnant in a short space of time (she is 4 years older tho so I do cut her some slack) but no it def doesn't seem fair. I should have a walking talking potty trained 2.5 year old now. She wasn't even in a relationship back then. Life throws weird and frustrating curve balls. But you're not out there on your own. You've got us here, and we are all completely normal and totally get what you are going through. Sorry you're feeling rough though. Long term TTC is both crap and meh. Hugs and sympathy. If I had a genie in a lamp I would make these three wishes: 1) a baby for me and Mr Princess 2) babies for all the TTCers 3) a healthy and happy pregnancy for my bestfriend. Scuttles off to vintage flea market to find magic lamp.....

X-posts - busy morning!

princess can you ignore the consultant and get it done when you know it is 7dpo? You clearly know your own body better than he does.

Nelly how frustrating! I don't think my place has an IVF policy. Frankly all anyone cares about it meeting deadlines. In the US they even have an unlimited vacation policy (which of course no one takes full advantage off because they are all workaholics but it shows the attitude that you can do what you like with your time as long as the deadlines are met). So my appointments just go down as medical appointments (which they are). If I need a couple of days to rest I will either take them as sick leave or annual leave.

Just been to my doctors and had some suprising results. My liver is not happy and they think its due to my kidneys. I have more tests over the next week then its a kidney specialist. I'm a bit shocked and wondering where this leaves me TTC wise. Maybe its why I haven't been able?

Oh Carrie I'm sorry to hear your news. Your kidneys / adrenals / liver are all super important in hormone production / management. Perhaps this has been having a knock on effect. I'm no expert but it may be something to ask at your next appointment. Have they said what's wrong or just looking at blood tests etc at the moment. Look after yourself. Hope you get some useful answers soon. xxx

Euro dare I go against the consultant at this point? I don't know. He was very exacting about the date that he wanted it done on and noted it in his diary / notes. I'm not sure I can change without causing a hullaballo. He seems like the sort of pedant who would check the date of the blood test against his notes. Normally I would go and have it done on 7DPO in accordance with my charts etc But on this occasion I think I'm going to have to stick with his instructions. Ridiculous. I'll wait for my temp shift and see what FF says and discuss with OH. I'm usually a lot more forthright but for some reason I'm terrified of upsetting this man for fear or what he might say / deny later down the line.

Is there no chance day 21 falls at the weekend? If not I think I'd feign work commitments or something and get it done when I know it should be. But then I'm a stubborn cow and don't like being ordered about (particularly not to do something I know is wrong).

From trying to interpret your post above, if you think you will ov tomorrow (17) or Thursday (18), day 21 will fall on Sunday anyway and where I live they only take blood Monday-Friday.

Euro stupid question, when we say 7 DPO do we count 1 DPO as day of ov or 1 DPO as the day after ov . I might be getting my knickers in a twist unnecessarily... blood test is on Tuesday as he wanted to do the test on day 22 of my cycle. Yes they only do blood here Mon - Fri 8 - 6. Not on bank hols or weekends because everyone knows that ladies can freeze their bodies out of hours and on public holidays.

euro thanks so much for the reassurance about the progesterone numbers. I didn't know they used a different scale in the US, so that has stopped me fretting preemptively! Interesting about the law thing. Almost all my female friends who went into law have either changed careers, gone in-house, or haven't had children yet. I've heard some real horror stories about how insanely un-family friendly it is as a work culture. Like princess, I switched tacks from a media job (used to work in a newsroom) to a more easy-going job, a while after moving to the US, and one of the main reasons was so that it would be easier to combine with children . When I spoke about this to one of my friends in the UK, she asked whether I was worried about 'taking my foot off the gas' too early and mentioned the Sheryl Sandberg TED talk that is mentioned in the article, in which Sandberg, who's a big cheese at Facebook, reproached women for 'leaning back' too early in their careers. I remember feeling a bit annoyed, especially because I haven't managed to have children - and this article has made me feel slightly vindicated! How are you feeling - when does the downregging finish and the next stage start? I also love the eurette phrase. So sweet.

alwayshopeful how was your gynae visit?

princess I am at your comment to Mrprincess's grandmother. Hil-arious! I would have LOVED to have seen her face! HahaHA! I love that you were brave enough to say that, and good for you for sticking up for him. Grrr about saying that he is gay - how bloody rude - not that there is anything wrong with being gay, of course, but given that he is married, ffs. And well done you for taking your career seriously - I personally think you were very smart to leave film production for finance. I've seen so many people stay in low-paid media jobs for too long, not even enjoying it - it would be different if it were their life's passion, but it usually isn't that, it's just that it sounds cool - and after a while, the returns of a trendy job diminish. I definitely felt that about leaving my old job, which always sounded impressive even though I was a tiny cog in a huge wheel, but I know I'm in a better spot now, even if it sounds less glamorous. Second euro's advice about the ovulation thing, by the way, if you ovulate tomorrow, couldn't you go in on Monday?

carrie what a worry about your kidneys - could that be what was causing the pain? Kidney infections are no joke. If so, I am even more at the crappy treatment you received from the consultant.

nelly Gah! about your work call, I'd be itching to know what the changes were in leave - is there any way you can sneakily find out? And grrr about the comments on the IVF, people can be so ridiculous and callous when they don't think something applies to them. The attitudes about it enrage me. I remember my friend who has twins telling me that people asked her constantly when they were little whether they were 'natural' or not, and when she told them that they were, they would be all approving. So she started to lie and tell people 'no, they weren't' just because she didn't like the smug 'ooh, that's great' that she got otherwise. Aaargh.

artemis I'm sorry you're feeling so down. I hope today's efforts at least get you booked in for an HSG. I can't believe the crap treatment you've had, I wish I could bring you over here to the clinic with the rich mahogany and the monitoring.

xpost - princess I had my progesterone test on CD22, don't know if that helps at all.

Euro By the way he told me that the test must be done on 'day 22' and that will be Tuesday 3rd July based on your cycle. I merely followed orders and didn't check anything. Now I see that Tuesday is CD23. My attention to detail is clearly lacking. Thank you for your help. Where would we be without you?!!

Thanks critter I echo your thought on having a media job 'sounds cool'. In reality being shouted at 7.15am in the morning for not answering your phone to a needy camera man on location in Brazil because you were too busy having a poo (yes, true story) is neither glam nor rewarding. Although the words, I work in TV / film always used to light up peoples eyes at a party. The words 'pension manager' don't turn people on but I'm more than my job and I guess that's why I left media behind. Having a boring sensible job reminds me to use my spare time for the things I love, watching films and reading books. Also get the thing about 'taking the foot off the gas'. I'm happy enough for now and maybe I'll look to do something different in the future. Life isn't about having everything at once. What will I have to look forward to when my kids go to uni / move out / whatever they decide to do?!

So it looks like the test will be done on the correct day by some stroke of fate of incompetence (me and consultant) - if I count tomorrow as 1DPO, assuming that ov does happen tomorrow. I just have to lie to them that CD23 is CD22 (for my notes) and then if he asks, give him my best dumb blonde look (not hard) and tell him that's what he said and maybe throw in a 'but I was just confused because I'm scared of needles'. Urgh, so complicated.

princess I count dpo the same was as fertility friend, so if I oved today, tomorrow would be 1dpo and so on. I've no idea if that is how it is generally done.

Thanks Euro - all of your help is much appreciated as ever. This is my first full month of charting properly. I lost my way with it all last year and didn't really bother after lots of blank OPKs (which I now know I was doing way to early). If that's the way FF does it, that's the way I'll do it. Sorry to badger you, but you are so capable at gliding through this minefield so effortlessly. I've been sort of lurching from one thing to the next without taking stock of the basics first.