TTC 10 plus months, Part 7

[lisacn]

A friendly, supportive thread for those of us who are taking a bloody long little longer time than average to conceive.

Yes buzzy what is the update? Hope all is well. Poor thing. I had to giggle though, at the 'woke up thinking this is what it will be like to have a baby' because I imagined you dragging a massive man-sized baby around a bathroom. I'm an idiot

Critter belts n braces, I like your style.

sarlat wow on the full on mum involvement in TTC batty. It is very cool that she gets it to this extent. My mum doesn't even know we are actively trying, by now family have pretty much given up hope and don't bring it up.

nelly I love your 'little lie down'. Made me laugh.

Sympathies to all in the 2ww hell. Mr Purple left town in shag week and is still away. Of course I ov'ed a bit early so there a couple of possible sperm meet egg shags and all the bullshit hope that brings. On the TTC cycle change issue, I only have one observation, something I call 'crazy nipples' which I never noticed before. It started 3 cycles back post ov and I got very excited about it. must be a baybee in there doing that Google informs me that progesterone causes water to be retained in the body, storing water causes breast tissue to stretch, hence crazy nipples. Doesn't explain why I should get this when I didn't before. I have a friend staying who noticed the same thing (she is not TTC) and claims it's old age related. NO, NO, NO she produced no google source Anyway this is all intro to my wine of the day.... I'm 8dpo and my crazy nipples are less crazy if you are not pg progesterone levels off a little a week before period and you gradually pee out the water stored and therefore I'm not pregnant but kind of might be

Oh FFS Euro what rotten luck and rotten timing. My sister had abnormal smears last year and all is well she is just monitored more regularly. But the timing of this is truly shite (and typical) for you. Deffo speak with your GP and IVF clinic. Oh I feel really bad & pissed off on your behalf.

joycep Good for you on your research and email. Will you let us know if you get a reply from Dr Troth?
Why the blinking hell is your husband's ex emailing you both?????? What kind of nutter does that? She is blatantly wanting to rub your noses in her happiness. I would send her the sweetest reply back just so she can be under no allusion that she has upset you. I would also outline all the interesting things you have got coming up (like holidays) and all exciting baby free stuff to make out that you and MrJ are having a ball without the responsibility of babies.

buzzy For goodness sake at your DH being discharged in that state. Is he any better today?

Critter Ovulation/SWI dreams surely are a new low on this thread Poor you!

sarlat I'm going to get some garlic capsules. It can't hurt. Your mum sounds great by the way.

nelly I love scones especially with jam and clotted cream though, I'm sorry but I have to point out that they are scoownes [wet Southerner smiley] I have to keep telling DH this along with the fact that it is vaarse not vase. Repeat I have put my scoowne in my vaarse while I am running my baarth

purple at the magic diff cycle.
Am liking your rather enterprising idea too!

artemis I agree that pee sticks would have been much more emotive & deep man than gladdies!
PMT has peaked for me too (I'm at the stage where EVERYTHING is too much bloody trouble and requires a pained expression, much whining and huffing and puffing) so AF is sure to turn up any day now....fabulous!

purple x-posted
I get crazy burning nipples and one lumpy boob every month. This has been a TTC addition but I reckon, sorry to say, that it is age related! I reckon it is definitely to do with Progesterone because mine usually kick in straight after ovulation and then deflate and the pain eases off a day or two before AF starts. When I first got the lumpiness I went to my GP and got referred for a mammogram and ultrasound because obviously it was a new thing and I hadn't realised it was hormonal. Anyways I was told that it was fibrocyctic breasts and caused by my period. Helpfully the DR also asked if I was pregnant because it looked like a pregnant boob!!!! So bloody typical that every cycle I get pregnant boobs....how am I ever going to successfully symptom spot that one?!

Rooting for an early ovulation for you

Oh brilliant Dave, so "mother" nature is handing out pregnant boobs to non- pregnant ladies...but she waits till they are over the hill, just to make it more amusing I guess.

Yeah, Mother Nature is a right fvking bundle of fun on timing.

Oh euro, what awful timing! Im sure I read somewhere when I was mentalling over having a smear that 1 in 10 come back as abnormal. Hopefully your gp can shed some light. How is the downregging going so far?

Purple, I get the sore boobs and concur with Dave pout that is an age thing. They've only started hurting post ovulation for the last couple of years.

Grrr joycep at the evil ex. I also believe in karma. Both of our exes have had their first baby this year. So unfair!

We had the genetics appointment yesterday. The dr was very lovely. She drew out our family tree, she was looking for history of serious illness, miscarriage etc. what it showed me is that im from a very fertile family. Of course neither of us would know about miscarriages, it's not something our relatives would talk about. She did pick up on the history of breast and prostate cancer and suggested I think about getting tested for the brca gene. This was an aside, nothing to do with fertility but of course I'm worrying about that now. She is doing 3 types of Analysis. One is where they look that we both have the right number of chromosomes, and that they look like they should. They will also check dh y chromosome to look for deletions, then they will look for the dodgy gene that can cause cystic fibrosis. It all sounds pretty thorough. She then explained that with icsi there is a slightly increased, though still small chance of abnormality. She said that icsi women should have a more detailed ultrasouns and that an amino would be able to map the chromosomes to check all is as it should be. I have never heard of icsi pregnant women being told to have amino?? Then she sowed us the age chart showing the increase in chromosomal abnormalities, pretty scary. So although it's good to have all the information I do feel a little worried. The results will take 4 to 6 weeks. So much waiting. I have to phone my fertility clinic today to get my blood test results, I'm dreading that because I don't want any more problems to show up.

On my phone, hence bad layout and typos. Waves to everyone x

To steal a phrase, mother nature can fucking fuck right off to fuck, and when she gets there, fuck off again.

Oh and it is skon. Fact. (why are you putting Scones in a vase pout? I hope you aren't making similar errors in doing the sex )

Sneak posting so my boss doesn't see. Better go...

Yes, it is scon. Obviously.

euro- oh for feck sake. I hope your GP can maybe put you at ease or at least give you some direction. You have been on a lot of drugs so I wonder whether these play havoc with your system? What terrible timing and not another stress you need.

Thanks nelly for explaining the follies thing. I had visions there that all my follies were red herrings and were actually empty!

critter - i?m really hopeful for you, I really am!

purple - I can?t quite picture what crazy nipples are? Can you elaborate?!

pouting dave - I was hoping DH would reply to his ex and not mention the baby ? or just mention the baby as a ps at the end of the email as if to say ?am i bovered??. Oh what a venomous snake i have become and thankfully he is not as evil as me. I just get cross because she clearly wouldn?t have got in touch if she hadn?t have been pregnant and although we went to her wedding and she to ours, we are just not in touch. Whenever i have spoken to her , she gives off an air of superiority, totally smug about everything including the fact she married a zillionaire and gloats about all their houses. Now she will gloat about her sprogs but euro is right, karma indeed. And as for telling her all the interesting things we have been up to ...that?s kind of the sad part, we have become social recluses and I spend my time going in for scans at hospital, researching fertility and writing on MN . Our life aint beautiful!

sarlat - I hadn?t found a good article but I randomly came across someone who has been treated with antibiotics for hydrosalphinx on FF (mentions in her stats bit). It may be worth PM?ing her?? www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=251565.0 I wonder whether it?s worth posting something on FF if you haven?t already to see if anyone has been in the same position or has been treated with antibiotics in this country. One of things that Dr Toth mentioned in that online book is that when patients come to see him, he and the patient work through things like a detective case. I haven?t found a consultant who works like this here ? they speak at you and if you mention you have done research on xxx, you tend to get a disapproving look. You do need to be able to have an open discussion with who you see to discuss the use of antibiotics. I also wonder whether it is worth you emailing Dr Toth or calling his office to see if he has dealt with people with hydrosalphinx?s before. Not saying you are going to fly to NY but it would be interesting to know if he has had success with antibiotic therapy for cases like yours or whether he has found that people with hydrosalphinx?s do have some hidden bacterial infection which may have been the cause in the first place. Just a thought.

I have heard back from the Toth office. The guy in the office does do free telephone consultations to go over Troth work and the treatments. To talk to Troth himself there is a consultation fee. If you did want to go to NY and pathogens are found in you or your partner, Treatment would mean staying in NY for 10 days as they do 10 days of IV antibiotics. I would be interested to hear what exactly he is looking for when they run tests as I wonder whether Penny at the Serum clinic in Greece (thanks euro for mentioning) run the same tests. Penny has got back to me about sending a sample of menstrual blood to have various hidden bacterial infections checked. That seems quite straight forward and I am going to do this when AF next arrives. If they find something, they can give you a prescription for antibiotics which you can buy over here. Penny mentioned having an aquascan as well which is a new one to put on the list ? never heard of this!

Because i?m having to postpone ivf until i know what the nhs are going to do for me, I thought I would try and get other things ticked off whilst I am waiting . I was trying to explain to MrJoy last night that as we have no diagnosis, we are totally on our own in this and it?s up to us to investigate all the avenues even if does mean posting menstrual blood across to Athens...eek!

joycep I have a suspicion that the steroids I have been on are to blame. It seems a bit of a coincidence that a week and a half after I finish 6 months of immunosuppressants I get my first ever abnormal result.

Frantic googling last night indicated that some people on steroids are advised to have annual rather than 3 yearly smears and that 80% have the HPV virus but in most people it lies dormant. It makes sense that the virus (which I almost certainly have based on the 80% figure) could be triggered back to life by a suppressed immune system. But that is just self-diagnosis with the aid of Dr google.

euro v quick post as I'm off out in a mo but man I'm sorry for this shitty news, a huge stress you really didn't need. My mum has worked in the world of smears and colposcopies forever and when friends have abnormal smears she has always said that these things move very very slowly, especially the 'mild'. A friend of mine got the exact same letter last year shortly finding out she was pregnant. She made herself I'll with worry and when she got to have the repeat smear a year later it was all clear. I hope you manage to get to the gp and have a helpful conversation about how to progress. I think you probably have a very good point about the steroids, it really stands to reason. Anyway, huge hug and hand hold and if you do end up with specific qs you could pm me and I'll pass them to my mum. If she doesn't know, shed know someone who did.
In need of proper catch up - I'll be back!

euro I agree that it a bit of a coincidence. Did the letter intimate at all what the nature of the abnormality was? I suspect not. It pisses me off that there is little info in letters like these. Don't they realise how frightening it is to get a few vague lines and then expect you to calmly wait for a GP appointment???
I suspect that Monday feels like an age away for you.
Agree with nelly even though she doesn't say scone properly...and that's you too mrsd about all this going to the farside of feck.

joycep You don't have to really be doing exciting things just have a vivid imagination for the purposes of putting bitch face back in her box! Your hospital scans are relaxing spa days, infertility research is a wonderful shared hobby , posting on MN is writing a book (okay that one is a bridge too far!)....
BTW I am jealous at her zillionaire husband and numerous houses....I hate her too
I haven't heard of this Greece thing. Also infections in menstrual blood is a new one on me. What type of infection? Why would a swab miss it? Is it the same as what euro was talking about a few posts up? Sorry so many questions. I am really starting to feel like the NHS are using medieval tests for infertility. Can I ask you how much it costs to send your blood to Greece for testing?

Hello lovely mostly ladies :)

I've been occupied with working and pubbage so far this week and now I am taking it easy for a day. So, I am attempting to respond properly...

I cannot believe the bad timing and luck euro. Feckety feck indeed. But I am totally in agreement with your doctor google conclusions. Hope the GP can reassure you and I really hope you can go through with the IVF now. Incidentally I did smile at the idea of you and a fair number of others (critter, mrG etc) taking on the fertility world, by shooting the unwilling and useless types.

How is your DH buzzy, hope he is much better!

Joycep I hate MrJ's ex too, for the same reasons as pouting dave but also becaus she felt the need to email and share. Only one of our (very limited) collection of exes has sprogged and I only found out from fb. I have to admit to sending a gloaty email to my most recent ex when we got married... So karma is sending me all the pg- and birth announcements as a punishment. Btw joy dr T sounds amazing, but then you'd expect so if it is private treatment in NY. The pros and cons of a public health system... But I am not sending menstrual blood to Athens - that is one step too far for me - although it would be entertaining punishment for the financial crisis brewing there.

The genetics thing sounds frightening thorough mrsd. Good to have it behind you, but OMG at the amount of tests, abnormalities and worries. I guess the levels of things going wrong, even with ICSI are quite low. But I have to admit I would not be keen on an amnio on a hard-won ICSI pregnancy... How were your blood results? Go on call and share...

Dave my pg boobs have been occurring for years (since I was a whippersnapping 20-something) so it can't all be old-age. I also went to the breast clinic for lumpyness, but my lump disappeared by the time I had my appointment and yay for skons, although not ever in a vase.

As to crazy nipples, purple that is a new one for me (and shall symptom spot them like mad too, as my DH was also out of town for the crucial shagging period). My progesteron seems to have a really clear crash about 24-48hrs before my period, I get moody beyond believe. And I seem to only ditch the excess water once it has all started...

Waves to critter, princess, nelly, wine, teuch, hocus and all the other lovely 10+ers on the previous page.

I phoned the clinic and got to speak to the dr to get my day 3 results. He said they are all good. They are quite different results to what I got a year ago though. My tsh is 1.5 whereas last year it was 3.1 I'd been worried about that because I didn't want their to be a thyroid problem too. My fish is 8, and my lh 6.1 he said he doesn't think I do have pcos after all. Last year my fish was 7 and the lh 11. It just shows how things can change over time. Totally confusing.

Fsh not fish, stupid phone. I daren't post from my work computer. I wish the dr would give more info on what the results mean, he just said they were all good and totally normal.

Joycep Gah at that ex having zillions. I always think that people that boast about their lives are probably pretty miserable people in reality. If you're genuinely happy then you don't need to tell the world about it.

Sending menstrual blood to Greece has made me chuckle a bit. Do you think this might save their economy?

Well done for phoning, and for good results but about the changing numbers. Guess it is much better not to have PCOS as there is less risk of overstimulation, but odd that it can change so much!

euro you sound so calm about things interesting about having annual smears with the steroids

dave loving the elocution lessons, Mr B still finds it amusing to take the piss out of my accent, I looked after a posh lady once who ALWAYS corrected the way I said yooougurt

purple i have noticed funny nipples too as i am ODing on progesterone supposotories at the moment but I get an itchy right nipple (never left) and the right one is a different colour too Mr B has been like a big baby I haven't been able to leave him alone and needed most things doing for him :)

mrsd I did wonder about your Fish it is interesting how they can change.

joyce I agree with mrsd if life is great why boast about it, unless they need constant reassurance that their life is good, then it probably isn't

artemis you must have been disappointed about the footy results last night I was slightly disturbed when Mr B suggested we watch the footy. I'm the mad sports one here.

nelly skon/scoownes sound tasty, I don't think I've ever made any to be honest < sits saying skon/scoownes>

well Mr B was very very sleepy and reliant on me yesterday, I wouldn't let him walk anywhere around the flat without me, but has picked up today and is starting to look quite normal well for him anyway. MIL has visited to make sure her baby boy is ok, she did say that FIL could look after Mr B if needed and that FIL would certainly raise Mr B's pb (FIL is a typical Greek Cypriot) Well i'm shattered, I ceratinly have to get fit before I have a baby, this broken sleep thing is not good

Oh I chatted to a lady who gave me a link to some of the Greek testing, she believed it made a big difference to her getting pregnant.

Poor mrbee. I hope he is feeling better soon buzzy. Dh currently has manful, that's bad enough to deal with, he is so grumpy when he's under the weather.

I just had a text to say my friend has had a baby girl. This is her second. Her first was born the month we first started ttc. How depressing. Even dh commented last night that everyone we know are parents now.

Oh euro. What a bloody nightmare, it's like a sick joke. How incredibly stressful and worry inducing. I hope the GP can offer some guidance. I agree with pout that Monday must seem ages away. Aaargh. I think sarlat has a good point, if there is any silver lining perhaps it is that whatever needs resolving is resolved?? But still.... AAARGH. Fucksticks says it all really.

mrsden sorry about the baby announcement. They never get easier, do they. And sorry that you're having such a confusing time with the numbers.

buzzy glad that poor Mr bee is on the mend.

joyce that is fascinating about the NY Toth guy. Shame he's not in DC, you could come and stay with meeee! I am very impressed by the menstrual blood to Greece option.

nelly they call them skowns here in the US. I am a skon girl myself. They also have these things called biscuits, which are actually scones, but they're made with buttermilk and sometimes lard... oh dear God they are delicious.

Quick waves to everyone else - apologies for the short post - sneaky work posting.

Wow, wow, wow, so much going on!!! Finding it hard to keep up I have been too busy to post and have noticed lots of little mistakes being made on my work and yesterday was a nightmare as had a mega migraine brought on by work related stress late yesterday afternoon. It's not easy being the boss's daughter some days.

Pouting Dave (love that one JoyceP) I def say scoooooooone and I so loved that you made the League of Gentleman comment, I've been wanting to say that for weeks but didn't know if there would be fellow fans out there so kept shtum. Hello Dave

Euro oh crikey, this whole flaming thing just gets worse. I too will shake my fists at the universe. I think fucksticks sums it up very eloquently. Hang on in there til Monday. I hope it can all be resolved. It's not fair tho and I'm for you.

JoyceP your husband's ex is a moron. I'm sure I read somewhere ages ago about high profile divorce cases and it's generally held among big time divorce lawyers that the richer the couple the more miserable the relationship. Something to do with being traded in for younger models. As all the others have said, it's just a case of karma. I really despise one of my OHs ex, she's a proper cowbag (and mean to me) and she only went on a handful of dates with my OH so I can only imagine how spiteful someone closer would be. As my OH would say about ladyparts and birth and my thoughts on karma "I hope her baby has a huge head and smashes her pasty". Perhaps she won't be quite so smug with a massive wizard sleeve tucked in her designer undercrackers.

MrsD Glad that your blood tests are all ok. Good news re PCOS. FX for the genetic testing. Whilst it sounds thorough I echo your thoughts about it sounding scarey. But I'm sure it will all be fine. You sound like you're in good hands and being looked after very well.

Artemis your posts have been making me lately. I too saw the doc about the birds - how easy do they get it, rubbing holes together and then popping out loads of mini bird laden eggs?! Oh if only.

Buzzy Gargh! Your poor OH! I hope he is feeling better soon. What a bloody nightmare!

All this talk of sending periods to Greece is making me a little bit, but the antibiotic stuff does sound very interesting and compelling. I second Pout re medieval NHS fertility methods. Antibiotics are cheap! Why can't they swab for bugs and prescribe antibiotics?! Surely the practice nurse is capable of that one.

I have got so much to do and there is so much more I wanted to add / say. I'm over at the house tonight and I've not fallen off the brown diet but I've not been eating / snacking as directed (missing snacks, forgetting protein with each meal, not drinking the veg juices, missing meals) and have been feeling quite unwell for it (moody, headachy, irritable and dizzy - lack of protein I reckon). However, I am getting loads more CM (still sticky, only CD10) so I still feel like the actual concept of the brown diet is doing good, positive things, I just have to up my eating and get back on the juicing... I've had a massive chicken salad this lunchtime and I'm due a big pile of nuts (easy) in about 30 mins...

Waves to everyone I've missed and I know that's loads of you. Sorry for quick flying visit.

euro - it does sounds like too much of a coincidence to me. Presumably if you were to come off the steroids your results would go back to normal in the next 6 months.
mrsd - that?s good about your results. All looks good and good that tsh has come down. I think that?s right ? they can really fluctuate. The genetics thing sounds hard core. I still don?t understand why they do all this testing where you are? Do they do it for ivf as well? Sorry about your friend giving birth. It?s a horrible realisation that people have had 2 kids in the same amount of time or less time we have been trying. It?s shit, there?s no other way to explain it.
buzzy - i?m glad Mrbuzz is improving. Sorry you are so shattered , sounds like it has been tough.
pouting dave - hahaha at your vivid imagination stories. I love them and I will say it again..you should be a writer! oh don?t be jealous at zillionaire, he?s a bit of a twat. I admire people who have made a lot of money off their own back or even if they just have a lot of money that?s great but I hate it when they are tossers about it...showing off, flashy and full of themselves and unfortunately he?s like that.
I don?t think it?s particularly infections in the menstrual blood...it just looks at whether there is ureaplasma, mycoplasma , general bacterial load and hidden chlamidia in your system that may be causing infertility. I don?t believe they run these tests over here. But you wouldn?t necessarily have symptoms but i did notice that peeing more could be a sign . It?s 270euros to have them do all these tests Whereas I see that it would cost £200 over here just to get the hidden chlymidia test. I have only just thought about getting these tested after Sarlat reminded me that we had both been on antibiotics when we got pregnant. Totally agree that the nhs tests are slightly medieval and basic. I?m sure they?re great for diagnosing ovulation problems but they aren?t good when it comes to unexplained.

But hurrah at the thought of saving the greek ecomony by us all sending menstrual blood

Oh and forgot to say that I'm absolutely loving the costume ideas (sadly it's not fancy dress this time, but I might work a piss stick in there somewhere!)

Joycep, sometimes a low sperm count is caused by genetic abnormalities so that is why they want to test us before icsi. If it turns out one of us has something that could be passed on then we'd have the option of pre implantation screening. I think the tests are offered in the uk too when there is a very low count. The anti biotics stuff is really interesting, my friend got pregnant by accident when on anti biotics but that was because it stopped the pill working or something like that. I was screened for various infections, how is hidden chlamydia test different to a normal one?

Princess, it sounds like you've done really well sticking to the brown diet so I wouldn't worry about a few off days. That's good news about the ewcm, I seem to have had a lot this month too, I'm on day 12 now.

so just got mr B's SA results, I'm trying to work them out

concentration 37 x 10^6/ml
total number 51.8 x 10^6/ml
progressive 7%
non progressive 7%
non motile 86
normal forms 2%

he did have a cold but it still doesn't look good

Gosh I'm all behind again.

buzzy is this the first SA? They do change such a lot from test to test so if he wasn't well def ask for a repeat. If you go on fertilichat there is loads of info on sperms and counts in there. How is Mr B? Sounds like he's had a rough ride and in my current post op state I send him every sympathy, it is shite.

poutingdave how much have I laughed at the birds and bees costume!!princess you just have to sneak a test in somewhere. If you were crafty minded you could fashion them into a bird or bee.

joycep way back in the mists of wine ttc time I read up on the hidden c tests. Why the hell does it need to be so complicated!? I had a swab for clamidia, it came back negative. Why for the love of god does there need to be a sneaky one that they only test for in Greece?!!!! Please please please let me get pregnant without having to post my period to Athens . and antibiotics are such a simple thing. Nhs pull your socks up. Sometimes it feels as if fertility stuff hasn't progressed much at all in thirty years. And oh no about the bitch ex. I second princesses eloquent big baby head curse.

euro how are you hanging in there?

nelly please pass me a scone. Grew up near Liverpool parents brummies. I may be the only person who uses both ways of saying scones interchangeably! The ivf clinic sounds ...nice? I know mr wine would be won over by the wi fi.

mrsden wow what a lot of tests. Very thorough though. I'm bracing myself for day 3 tests at some point this summer. Glad yours were good.

Purple hope the tww isn't making you too loopy.

lemon remind me are you au natural at the moment?

artemis huge thanks for the meet up co ordinating. Exciting!

Waves to critter over the pond and anyone else I've neglected who wasn't on this page.

I am..good! I'm feeling amazing since taking the iron and probiotics. It been sad to see my family go but we have arranged another meet up sooner than I thought, yay. We have managed to do the deed for fun (with ovulation safely past) albeit very gently and glad it's all working. I really like not trying. The days pass by calmly and not numbered, no knicker watch, no hopes raised and dashed. I'm wanting to find a way to stay in this mode and try but I just can't see how that works. Anyone?!