TTC 10 plus months, part 6

[mrsden]

A friendly, supportive thread for those of us who are taking a bloody long little longer time than average to conceive.

becks you can buy Agnus Castus in Holland & Barrett. I was told by my acu to take the tincture, so I do, but it also comes in tablet form. My CM seemed to disappear around the time I started taking it, but I am not sure if that is just coincidence as it is not a normal side effect.

I also take:
Pregnancare/Pregnancare Conception
Omega 3
D3
low dose aspirin
B6

Those are all on the advice of my consultant, apart from the AC and the B6.

I get mine from fushi online who do all sorts of nice woo things, but I'm sure it's all much of a much. It tastes FOUL!!

critter temps can be a nightmare, that is quite a difference, mine do vary a bit as I don't take mine first thing when I wake up or at the same time but the difference isn't much, how old is your thermometer?? Sorry I don't have any answers

becks
I'm on quite a cocktail of stuff
Vit D
Omega 3
Folic Acid
Aspirin

B2 - mainly for migraines
Magnesium listed on specialists website also good for migraines
Co Enzyme Q 10 good for egg quality and migraines
Vitamin E for good lining
L'arginine for good lining

I'm also drinking funny herbs and having acupuncture

wine your story reminds me of a patient of my dads who used to drink cough syrup when it used to have alcohol in it like I said to kittens it is your uterus making room for mini wine

mrsh its a bit awkward when I go to buy the tamoxifen as its used for cancer treatment so I get sympathetic looks from the pharmacist , I don't know anyone else on it

artemis big hugs, sorry you are feeling so crap x

pout sorry about your DH and the trip away, I just don't think that men think about the bigger picture, it took mr nickers a bit of time to get on board with things

lemon good luck with job application :)

princess big hugs to you too, and you are not a failure at all, its hard when others just seem to pop a baby out and its so difficult for us, it will happen for you x

I felt like I was carrying a bowling ball today, could be constipation and trapped wind lucky mr nickers sitting in the same room as me , feel a bit emotional putting that down to the drugs
I have been a big girl today and have got in touch with my preggy colleague, we had a bit of a falling out when she told me she felt awkward because she was still pregnant and I had miscarried and she couldn't cope

FFS, just wrote a huge message, which has been lost! Stupid mumsnet.

lisa well done on getting in touch with pregnant lady. She felt awkward?! Some people, eh?

becks Mr Gin and I are on Pregnacare conception multivits. They do a rather fetching his and hers pack.

I?m really hoping that the metallic taste is more than an ulcer Wine! You soooo deserve it to be.

joy that?s great that you?ve managed to move the appointment. Can?t believe how long the AGRC waiting list is! It?s meant to be really good though. If we had the ££s, I?d go there, but it?s outta my price range and they don?t have an egg sharing programme. I think once you start the IVF, it?ll seem less scary and you?ll see lots of other people doing it too.

pout I think you?re totally justified in wanting DH about in May! I would have let a lot of FFSs slip. You really don?t need any additional anxiety around whether he will be about or not. Euro?s advice sounds good! Men! And thanks for the pjs, ice cream and crap tv advice, all of which I?m doing at the mo.

lemons Good luck with the application! Is it an exciting job?!

I really hope tomorrow goes ok for you Princess. Maybe this doctor will break the mould and actually make you feel better?! Is the appointment to discuss the findings of the scan? I assume the brown diet excludes chocolate, despite being brown? I?m sure a post-appointment treat would be allowable... I too would love a Kitchen Aid. A big, red shiny one. Sooo expensive, but sooo pretty.

euro you cannot go to the south of France and not drink! Children, pregnant ladies and drivers all drink out there. You?ll have to let me know if you?ve found any good vineyards. I managed a whole month without booze for this cycle (the longest I?ve not drank since I was 16, I think!), but am intending to drink some nice wine this weekend and to continue drinking over the summer, until we start the next cycle.

MrsHY Wow, that?s an amazing no. of eggs! No wonder you are sore. I felt pretty rough after EC ? it is surprisingly demanding- although feel ok now, about 2 weeks later. Like you, I?ve decided we?ll do 3 rounds (if we can fund it) and then look at adoption. at your poo story. My tummy was v. dodgy too. Fingers crossed for some lovely blastos.

Artemis I?m veggie too, but couldn?t be vegan. I worry that I don?t get enough protein as it is! at the barbed wire womble image. Sorry about the spotting ? I too always seem to harbour some secret hope, even though I know Mr Gin?s 2 sperm have no hope of reaching my egg au natural! Do you think the gynae meant to put sub fertility in your letter? Although you would need to have a definite reason for that e.g. for us Mr Gin is sub fertile due to his sperm issues.

Critter sorry your temp has been erratic. And it must be tough being so far away from family. My mum is in France (and only for 6 weeks) and I?m missing her already! The referral sounds like a good plan though.

frannie I?m sure you?re not fat and spotty! Although you did make me chuckle.

Oh and I can?t remember who has fanny patches, but we got rid of ours by painting over them with gloss! It works really well. What damp?!

I?m feeling much better apart from the heaviest period EVER! ladyg was your post cycle period really, really heavy too? I?ve bought some delightful super sanitary towels to try to prevent leakage. There was obviously nothing wrong with my bloody womb lining! We?ve booked our follow up consultation at the clinic for mid May. I?ll be interested to hear what they have to say. From dr google, it appears that at 50%, our fertilisation rate was low for ISCI. I was also quite surprised to go from 12 eggs (10 of which were mature) to 2 embryos. I don?t know if it?s a sperm or egg issue. Or just bad luck. We would consider using donor sperm if they thought it would give us a pregnancy. We?ve also got a counselling session next week. I?m slightly scared, as never been to anything like it before. I?m also not quite sure why we?re doing it other than that it will be good for us!

Stupid Mr Gin still not home. Stupid men. Can you tell I have my period?!

Aw gin a big gentle hug to you. I am glad you're in the pjs and ice cream mode, you should be really looking after and cosseting yourself after this rough ride. Counselling should be helpful, I hope. And on the eggs to embryos, you only need one to stick - and next time one will stick, I just know it.

lisa thanks for the sympathies. My thermometer is only a few months old and as I'm not ovulating, I'm afraid the problem is probably me, not technology. Oh well. Onwards and upwards, I hope it will all get sorted out eventually. Sorry to hear you're uncomfortable physically and about your falling out with the pregnant colleague - I guess some people just don't know what to say when other people have a difficult time, but it's still a bit bloody insensitive.

wine so sorry to hear about the cramps. I hope it isn't what you think it is, but if it is, you're still a lot closer to getting the fibroid out so you can have a lovely, unblocked, inviting womble area for a waiting egglet.

becks I am just taking a prenatal vitamin, interspersed with bouts of Clomid/progesterone. I have a jar of Agnus Castus tablets in my medicine cabinet but am nervous about taking them, in case it messes my non-existent ovulation pattern up even more.

joyce sorry you are feeling a bit rotten. It is good that there is some movement in terms of the appointments being set. My former landlady (who's 34) just told me that she is finally pregnant through IVF after three years of trying with IUI, Clomid, Metformin and thyroid medication. I was so happy for her. The magic finger will find you soon, it has got to!

princess good luck tomorrow at the GPs. I really hope it goes well. It is indeed a Kitchenaid stand mixer, and I love it SO much in all its 50s Americana glory.

pout I hope that you manage to persuade Mr Pout to stay and look after you post op. I would hazard a guess that it's probably just not knowing what's actually involved in the operation that is making him offhand about it.

euro good luck for tomorrow's testing. The South of France sounds amazing - it will be a good distraction from the horrible all-consumingness of ttc. And I bet it will be gorgeous weather too. I may also take the weekend off from the saintly eating/drinking as I'm going to the home of gluttony, New Orleans, for the weekend and I couldn't go and not try the yummy food. There are some perks to being here in the US.

lemon hope you're feeling ok today.

artemis sounds like you've had a crap time of it. The 'secondary infertility' stuff is a load of bull, grrr. I am on your behalf, they need to sort it out. Tail feather strokes to you.

Waves to everyone else! It's DH's birthday so I am trotting home to make him steak for supper. We had a bit of a row last night and I haven't seen him all day so I'm hoping I can cheer him up with a nice birthday dinner and maybe even a little SSI (sans intent).

pout If your DH was to go away I would be more than happy to go with you to the hospital, we are faux surrey neighbours after all.

critter when I read your post and you said you were going home to make dinner I thought at this time of night, forgot you are across the pond, the joys of early onset dementia sorry i'm sure you said that you have been on high doses of Clomid, on the ttc super ovulation board a lady said she was trying the tamoxifen as she had not been successful with the letrozole, I know its not quite the same.

euro good luck for tomorrow :)

I was a bit shocked by her reaction as she had been so supportive at the beginning when I first miscarried well we'll see what happens, there are other people I won't be making an effort with.

Morning ladies

Euro have you tested yet? Fingers crossed... Wine how are you feeling? Any spotting yet? Funny, before I read your post I was thinking I only really feel normal on days 6-11 of my cycle, after getting my head around AF and before shag week... that's a hell of a lot of time left over to be feeling stressed and/or crap.

MrsHYI any decision on the transfer? I confess I don't know the difference between a 3 day and a blasto transfer, I daresay i will learn...

Pout yes I think Clomid is often the consultant's first port of call. I was given it even though my most recent bloods suggested ov. My suspicion is it's cheap and therefore they try it before they do any more costly investigations (or in fact anything at all). Can you tell I am massively cynical about the health service?!

Princess how did you get on with the nutritionist? Did s/he endorse the brown diet? I have been on that too: coffee, chocolate... We eat healthily, veggie organic etc, but I have long since given up on trying to abstain completely from things I like. I suppose it's possible that my one small coffee a day and 2 or 3 glasses of wine a week are the thing that's stopping me from getting pregnant but I seriously doubt it. Euro hurrah for climbing off the wagon. France without wine would be wrong!

Pout and MrsHYI it sounds sensible to start thinking about where to draw the line. We haven't really discussed it but in my head 40 is a cutoff point and I am only 18 months away from that milestone. I can only have one NHS IVF cycle with a year to wait for that so am thinking about private investigation in the meantime with IVF as a last resort. Euro I agree it seems like the end of the treatment line which is one of the reasons it's so intimidating. I think after another 18 months I will have had enough. By that point we will have been trying for nearly 4 years and trying to persuade MrA talking about it for two years before that which is surely enough for anyone.

Grr at the unsympathetic other halves. Pout I would have been upset too at the prospect of your DH's work jolly abroad. You're having abdominal surgery and a GA, he needs to be around. Euro's suggestion sounds very sensible, top negotiating tactics. I had an AF-induced meltdown last night and my DP got ratty and said I needed to not get so wound up about everything. Not the sympathetic response I might have hoped for. Another reason for having a deadline is the stress this whole process is putting on our relationship.

Critter hope your DH enjoyed his birthday supper. SSI sounds like a good idea.

Thanks everyone for the support and confirming my thoughts about the crap consultant's letter. I've still not got through on the phone - just keep getting one of those pre-loaded answer machine messages 'your call cannot be taken at the moment'. I've checked and double checked the number. In desperation I rang the hospital's general appointments line and the receptionist has given me a number for the consultant's secretary and told me to ring after 10. grr. Purple I am but not surprised at the hospital losing your test results.

Woke up this morning to a double whammy of AF cramps and a raging sore throat. Going on holiday for a week tomorrow so sod's law is clearly in operation. I'm considering ditching the clomid this month. It really affects my mood and I don't want to be miserable and short tempered on holiday with friends. Does anyone know if skipping a month matters? My acu said clomid is more effective if taken consistently but I'll only get a total of 6 months of the stuff so I can't see it making any difference in the long run.

Waves to everyone x

artemis sorry about the af sore throat combo I'm not sure about scary clomid but understand your reluctance to take it. 12 dpo, no spotting and this morning I have been sick after brushing my teeth. Torment. Impending periods are a Headfuck!

Morning ladies! Well back from the doctor's and I've been referred to a consultant. She's taking a bit of a punt because I don't fit neatly into a box. That is to say I'm not infertile as I've been pregnant 2 poss 3 times and I've been pg inside a year and haven't definitely had 3 MCs. So I may be declined. I mentioned that private was an option but she didn't seem to think that would be necessary and doesn't think we'll end up on the IVF route. Watch this space.

My nutritionist appt was really fascinating yesterday. She spent and hour and a half with me and was absolutely lovely She explained things really carefully and seems to genuinely care. She took one look at my blood results and confirmed everything the blood results collected today showed up. I'm going on a cleanse for 4 weeks (the super brown diet plus £100 of supplements - powerful detox and antioxidant ones - I'll be taking no less than 17 tablets a day for the next few weeks!!!!) I liked the fact that everything she talked about was in a very scientific manner and related to organ functions etc. No hippy mumbo jumbo. The downside is that we can't try for 3 months whilst I'm on this diet as some of the supplements are not suitable. I must admit, it feels like someone is giving me permission to take the break I knew I needed. Although I did look at her in horror when she first mentioned it! This means that for the next 3 months I can get myself in tip-top condition and get the new house sorted. The aim is to rid my body of the old toxins, heal my liver and support my adrenal glands in the next month. Then to start boosting my progesterone and balance my hormones over the following 2. Obviously, the proof is in the pudding but it feels right to me. As it's our 2nd wedding anniversary in July it feels like we can start again then, hopefully with happier and more balanced hormones (and a sniff of a pregnancy). She also explained that I don't have PCOS (as did the doctor today) because the syndrome is the acne, facial hair etc etc and that I have PCO. My testosterone is fairly low to and it seems to be the progesterone that's a problem.

Sorry for the me post. I'll get back to you all later, I think my lack of output at work is being noted by my dad and if I want to keep buying all the brown and pills (sounds so much more rock n roll!) I've got to keep the day job going!!!

Thanks for your support tho, all of you are gems

Princess that sounds fantastic, a positive way forward and a break from some of the stress as well. The nutritionist sounds wonderful. How did you get hold of her - did you have to ask or did they refer you based on your test results?

Wine that does indeed sound like a headfuck! Are you going to test? 12 dpo is probably a bit early, but the waiting is awful.

phone meeting about to start, got to run...

mrsHy How are you feeling today? More comfortable I hope.

Euro Have you tested yet?

joycep It's great that you have rescheduled your appointment and glad that it wasn't too painful.

wine You are always so helpful with your lap advice - thanks!
Being sick when teeth brushing. I am sooooo hoping that this is your time but am standing by with a kipper!

lisa My temps were a little bit all over the shop too. I think it was because I wasn't sleeping well.
BTW your colleague sounds a bit, ahem, strange. What an insensitive thing to have said to you. Anyway kudos to you for being the bigger person.
Also thank you so much for your kindness about offering to accompany me to the hospital. That is such a nice thing to say

gin Hope that your DH wasn't home too late!
I have a thing for red kitchen appliances too. I recently bought a bright red Boden kettle and love it.
It's miserable that you are having such a heavy period. I have switched to the super, metre long sanitary towels in recent months. Ain't getting old great!!

critter what a nice story about your landlady.
Hope that your DH enjoyed his birthday tea.

artemis I agree with you about the only feeling normal for a short window in my cycle. The rest of the time I either feel ill or utterly depressed.
I reckon Clomid must be cheap too.
I'm glad that I'm not the only one thinking about a cut off point to TTC. Like you I just feel that it is putting too much pressure on my relationship with DH and we aren't enjoying life. TBH I just want to be normal again & protect my sanity!

Anyways, have you got through to the hospital yet?
It is rubbish that you have a sore throat on top of cramps. Hope you feel better soon.

princess Your appointment with the nutritionist sounds interesting. I'm glad that it has buoyed you up a bit.
3 months off TTC might not be a bad thing. If I wasn't such an old boot I reckon that would be the ticket for me too!

I too had a meltdown on DH last night can't blame AF either We have cleared the air a bit though and I have explained how I feel like a failure and a bit lost about not having a family of my own and how I feel like I am judged by his family for not working & told him how his mum had said I was a drain on him etc... He actually was super nice & made me feel a lot better about the future with or without a child & how the way we live our lives is nobodies business. Also he isn't going away in May. He said that he just hadn't considered what a bad time it was to go

Morning ladies.

wine sick when tooth brushing, eh.....

princess that all sounds interesting. I can see the attraction in being told to take 3 months off too.

Artemis I am convinced this process would be significantly less stressful if people would answer their bloody phones! It's difficult enough to make these calls (emotionally and logistically if at work, etc) and then when you do call, no one blooming well answers! Grrr.

I tested this morning and as expected, I am in the 90% - BFN. Although I knew it was coming I am still quite upset. And this vile weather is not heling my mood. Meh.

euro sorry about the BFN but it could be still too early, I've never had one before 14dpo, I know you want to stop the steroids, big hugs and fingers crossed its a late implanter x

euro - I'm really sorry it hasn't worked this time. However much you think you've prepared yourself, it's still devastating to see a BFN. I hope the next round brings you more luck.

princess - I admire your dedication to the cause and it does all sound quite tempting, to have a fresh start by getting your body in the best possible shape. I may need something along those lines when I come back from Scotland.

pout - I'm sorry about your meltdown but sometimes things just need to be said and I'm glad it cleared the air. Also glad that your DH has seen sense re the work trip.

wine - hmmm... it's sounding promising. Gosh, it would be fantastic if this was your month.

joycep - can't believe your appts came through for the same day! I know what you mean about even the little things feeling impossible sometimes.

nelly - I'm pleased the extended AF has buggered off and you can get straight to SWI!

MrsHY - sorry it sounds like you're having a rough time but fingers crossed for an easy transfer and a positive result.

gin - yes my period was very heavy, bright red and clotty post-IVF. As you said, in a strange way I took this as a good sign that my womb lining must have been nice and healthy! On the fertilisation rate, if they didn't say anything at the time they'll prob just say it was bad luck. 50% is still pretty good. At our follow-up all the consultant said was that he wanted to alter the way I was stimulated because so many of my follicles were at different stages just before EC. I think this means that the larger follicles might have contained over-mature eggs which aren't as good a quality as those which are only just mature. Fingers crossed your follow up is helpful.

Nothing much happening here, the usual spotting started a few days ago and I fully expect AF to arrive when we're miles away from anywhere en route up to Scotland!

I was going to say I'm signing out for a week or so but I don't think I ever really signed in this week [rubbish emoticon] Haven't had a moment to myself this week between working silly hours and family stuff, still got lots to do before the big drive up to Scotland tomorrow. Why are the weeks before holidays always so stressful?!? Anyway, it will all be forgotten this time tomorrow.

Sorry for not catching up with you all properly - weekend waves all round, see you all soon

Euro I'm sorry. I hope it works out next time. Enjoy France mooing meat, wine and indulge yourself. Hugs for you.

Pout - I too would have responded with lots of FFS's. Your having an operation?!?!?!? Could you imagine if it were the other way around and you were like, "Darling, I'm off on a jolly. You'll be ok after your tiny, little op around your nethers?!" I'm glad that he has come round and that all is well again tho. Men, eh?! Also sounds like you needed a good ol' heart to heart. Glad you're feeling better.

Becks - Super news that you are feeling better. It's an up and down game (in more than one sense!) isn't it? Agnus Castus (or Vitex or Chaste Berry) is a supplement which helps regulate hormones, even out cycles and reduce PMS (it's given to women in Germany who suffer PMS as standard). However, you have to be quite careful as it's not ideal for all and especially people who are pregnant. All good health shops, as Euro says, should stock it. You can also try the Organic Pharmacy on line. I've been told to steer clear of Agnus Castus during my 'cleanse' phase, so I've stopped taking it for now. Marilyn Glenville does a handy run down of supplements, see toward the bottom of this page - www.marilynglenville.com/infertility.htm You can always see a dietician or homeopath if you are worried about dosing yourself up? BTW I've just read recently on the Verity (PCOS charity) website that there are now 3 homeopathic hospitals in the UK, which you can be asked for a referral to. I think they are Bristol, London and Glasgow. You can read more on the British Homeopathic Association website www.britishhomeopathic.org/

Lisa huge well done on being so restrained grown up with the pregnant lady. How can she feel awkward? The mind boggles Hope you are feeling more relieved, shall we say, today! Thank you for your kind words. Today is an up day but well, who knows when it will be a down day again. Your a really kind person. Thank you

Gin hope you are having a better time today and Mr Gin got home promptly. Heavy periods are the worst as are huge nappy like sanitary towels. Gross. Poor, poor you. I'm sure the counseling will be fine. I had a rubbish counselor years ago but I bet the one's in the clinic are really good and specially trained for fertility and all the emotional support required. No need to be nervous, I'm sure they'll be lovely.

My mum saw Robert Winston on This Morning yesterday. You can see his interview on the internet, this may be useful to some of you, as they have a phone in with questions from the public. Apparently, St Mary's in London is the best hospital for fertility stuff. Maybe there are some referral possibilities in this very room :)

Critter loving the sound of your mixer. I'm definitely saving although may be a long time if these supplements are required for a while! now that I know cake is not definitely out! I hope you had a lovely birthday tea last night. Mmn steak.

Artemis I referred myself to the nutritionist as I too am cynical about the NHS and their cheapo ways. You just gotta look at the foul food they serve to sick people to help them get better! My nutritionist is based in London and Sussex. Her name's Henrietta Norton and she's a health writer (her book on endometritis has just been published) and she talks at lots of conferences too. She was very up on all the lady bits and hormones and interaction with the rest of the body. As I have been asking for copies of blood tests so that I can goggle everything when I get home so that I have a record of everything from the start, I've been able to email these to her with all the other information she needed to do the appointment.

I'm sorry to hear all of the end of the road talk. It's very sad. I know I'm only 30 but the thought that this could go on for more than another 1 or so is excruciating. I've done my 3 years already. Enough! Anyway, my uncles wife had problems getting upduffed (I don't know what they were I was a teenager and clearly didn't care to hear at the time). She had many rounds of IVF - I think 5 or 6 (they are loaded), surgery, the best consultants in the land and no success. They gave up when she was about 36 and decided to get married instead (he had been divorced before and said that he would never get married again). Needless to say, they stopped trying, started planning their wedding and half way in she got pregnant naturally. She went down the aisle at 7 and a half months pregnant and then went on to have another baby the following year. They never thought it woudl be happen and were written off by all the doctors they saw. So it can happen. Maybe just when not expected! I hope this inspires a tiny bit of hope into some of you who are feeling the pressure of big birthdays, too much pressure on having a family and the when will it / won't it happen or just the strain on your relationships.

Oh and I asked OH about fanny patches (fnar fnar) and he says you have to apply a stain blocker before you paint with emulsion. We had this problem where we had a leak and if you paint over with normal paint it just shows through again (a bit like cheap white trousers !)

And finally, Wine vomming, metallic taste, big sore boobs. I expect hobs nobs will be eaten soon. The excitement!! I sure hope it is. Have a gently, nauseating waft of a kipper just in case tho!

Waves to everyone. Off to clean the flat for viewings this afternoon. Then I must eat something brown and something green. Hope everyone has a great weekend. xxxx

wine - can you just poas now and tell us what it says?! Throwing up after brushing your teeth isn?t an AF symptom or not one i have heard of! Anyway oooohhhh and on tenterhooks for you but have a mackerel here just in case.

Oh euro , i?m sorry about the bfn. It?s probably still too early but i understand the disappointment.

lisa - can?t believe your colleague but well done on getting in touch with her. Sorry you?re feeling so bloated.

gin - the waiting list isn?t long for the argc ? only 6wks but i don?t want to start things with them until July. I have been battling in my mind about whether to go with them. it will ruin us and we would only be able to do one cycle per year. But they do immune testing which i can do at the same time and if their rate of success is 60% for

Princess - I have been referred to St Mary's. I will let you know if they are good! I know they are one of the best for recurrent m/c but didn't know they were good for general fertility. I have mixed tjiughts about the Lord winston. I have read not great things sometimes. He is very anti immunes. I think if a doc gets you pregnant you will blow their trumpet but if they don't you would probably find negative stuff to say about them.
Lovely story about your uncle's wife.

hi all

Euro I'm so sorry you got a negative. It's devastating even if you know the odds are not on your side. 12dpo is still early though isn't it?

Ladygee hope you enjoy your holiday and manage to leave the stress behind. I'm in the same situation, planned a week off months ago and now it's here I could do without it, I have so much to do...

joycep thanks for the info on clomid pricing. It would probably make sense for me to do as Euro suggested and go on the NHS IVF list then look at private treatment in the meantime for the cheaper stuff. I'm really sorry your DH is going to be away for so long, it's so difficult. I am crap when mine is away, I end up working too much and despite my extensive list of hobbies and interests I find it difficult to get motivated. Mind you I did at the thought of Mr Big Wig having to be put out to extract his sperm!

I'm listening to the Robert Winston interview as i type. I find it difficult to trust a man with that moustache... but he does seem to have a common sense approach to some of the scare tactic headlines. I've skipped the blurb about his new DVD and listening to the callers - there are some awful experiences. He is absolutely bang on about how distressing mc is and how medical professionals don't take it seriously enough.

I have managed to get through to the clinic... the nurse said that 'secondary infertility' is used when you've ever been pregnant, whether or not it resulted in a live birth. That's not what it says on NHS Direct! It's hugely confusing when you get different information from medical professionals. However I have miraculously managed to bring my next appt forward by a week so it falls before the end of this cycle, so I think I'll take the clomid after all and just try to police my moods. Hopefully being on holiday will help, and DP isn't coming with me so he'll get a break from the grumpiness as well. In theory I should get back all refreshed and revitalised in time for shag week

I think we all need a bit of cheering up. Thanks for the encouraging stories Princess and Critter, it's got to happen for someone so why not us? For the weekend I have devised a new addition to the tail feathers fertility dance. I was in a museum the other day and a display in the Roman section caught my eye. They had a case full of phallic fertility symbols that people used to wear to attract the attention of the gods. They were all shapes and sizes, some of them even had little wings. The security guard was eyeing me suspiciously so I couldn't crowbar them out but as a substitute I have had a rummage through the Ann Summers bargain bin and come up with some sparkly purple phalluses (phallii? I never did Latin) that might do the trick. I reckon if we wave them about at strategic points in the tail feathers dance the finger of fate will have no choice but to pick out each of us in turn. I shall be adding batteries and hoping for twins

wine my knitting needles are at the ready

pout its good to be honest and get your feelings out there, I certainly think it has helped us, might have even been better if I had not done it whilst having the mother of all strops and chucking pee sticks and supplement bottles about the place :) I'm not sure if you are going to St Helier but if you are then all I can say is that they took very good care of me, I know I was there for different a reason but they were great. I don't always take my temp at the same time, cannot be arsed so it does vary a bit, sleep can affect it

princess very impressed by your nutritionist, I should pay more attention to what I put in my cake hole they should still refer you, I'm in the same boat, not had 3 mcs in a row and not infertile, its my age that was the bother although there was no problems with being referred to the RMC, and my GP did say she would refer me to the dertility team if I wanted, she just thought it would take too long and I wouldn't get much help due to my age

artemis sorry about AF and sore throat, it is sods law that it would happen before your hols, where are you going???

joyce big hugs, can I ask what DH does to be away so much??? I've only been away from DH for one night when they kept in hosp after the perforated uterus, I did miss him but also enjoyed the distraction and company of the other ladies on the ward.

Well I think the stronger drugs are certainly affecting me, I still feel tearful, but not really low in mood. I went to a patients house and his daughter asked the million dollar question, 'do you have kids',i get asked this nearly daily at the moment for some reason I usually reply not yet, Anyway we got to chatting and she said she'd had 2 miscarriages before she had her son, and she also said that her daughter in law is having fertility issues and is on clomid. It felt strangely comforting to talk to someone face to face about it, its not really the general chit chat the NHS like me to have with patients family
Had a little cry when I got back to my car, hope everyone has something fun planned for the weekend, we are pulling up the kitchen floor ready for next Friday

artemis we crossed posts, you've made me smile thank you x

joycep sorry about the rubbish day. Hope your man makes his way home soon. Hopefully you've got good weekend things planned. Good to hear stories like that. There are a lot of them aren't there?

euro sorry about the bfn. Keep going and see where another IUI takes you, I think of IUI as a bit of an accumulator? And focus on stinky Brie, Rose, pate and steak as rare as you dare. France with a queasy preg belly just wouldn't be right. I have not tested but no im out as i had my Super Weep today which i get loke clockwork the day before my period. Anything can set it off. Todays was particulrly silly and id share if it wasnt for the likelihood of outing myself! Our babies are stubborn beasts aren't they? God damn.

pout glad you had a heart to heart with manpout. I think they get needed sometimes. And good that he's realised he'll be needed.

princess good job on The Plan! I watched the winston thing. It mentioned fibroids. He was of firm belief they always need to come out. But said 60% chance of getting pregnant after that which seems lower than I'd like?

Lisa a bit about your friend!

gin I'm sure the counselling will be helpful, like a new pair of eyes on a situation maybe? And someone who isn't involved with us as friend or family will probably offer good insight. I would like to do that role one day and have often thought of retraining.

Well the vomming turned out to be a bug I think, I came home today with a very dodgy tummy indeed and have felt rough as.

Cross post artemis I may have a pink sparkly one gathering dust somewhere! Ha! This has cheered me. Lisa it's good to have those random, I'm not alone chats isn't it? I've had a few this year and they've helped me no end. You could knit me some surgical support stockings?!

gin I was thinking of something a little smaller, sorry you're not feeling well but still you never know :) you sounded a bit like a kiwi with your rough as

I think you mean me I loved a kiwi one!

Once