TTC 10 plus months, part 6

[mrsden]

A friendly, supportive thread for those of us who are taking a bloody long little longer time than average to conceive.

Hi everyone. Thought I'd delurk to share my story with lemons:

Started ttc sept 2010, after getting the all clear from doctors after bowel cancer the year before. At first we had no idea what we were doing, and just had sex without a condom sometimes... Started getting more serious about it all after Xmas 2010. Tracking cycles and starting to chart. Blood tests etc were all normal, but I got an early referral to consultant due to the cancer and possibility chemo had caused problems. Internal ultrasound showed no problems, and that I had ovulated, so left to get o. With it longer.
Jan 2012 I rereferred myself back to the consultant and asked for more tests. DH did a SA and I had more bloods, SA results were poor, but not awful, so I was booked in for HSG and we were left to get on with it again. DH started taking vitamins, and cut out what little alcohol he was drinking. Asked to repeat SA around same time as I'd have my HSG.
Had HSG in March, showed one blocked tube, one open. Left to wait for another consultant appointment which I think would have got us to IVF. However, second cycle post HSG I got a BFP.

I think the HSG was our 'cure' as the major abdominal surgery I had with the cancer is probably what caused my blocked tube, and maybe a kink or small issue in the other. No proof though, that's just my gut feeling. Probably also helped by DH and his man vits a bit, though he's only managed to use up a one month supply in the last 3!

I also had an early scan last week (at 5w+1) to rule out ectopic. I have a "greatly increased risk" of one with my surgical history. All was good though and we saw a lovely little egg sac sitting exactly where it should. :)

I'd forgotten Stacks that your BFP was post HSG too. No wonder most consultants do that test as standard. Brilliant news scan was ok :o

Morning ladies

euro I suppose that it is nice that you have a friend in the same boat but it is sad that anyone has to go through this crap. Hope that your DH is "resting up" well!

beryl I did giggle at the thought of your expensive furniture shopping list! I am such a cheap skate bargain hunter and our house is full of Ikea and ebay furniture...classy My only "nice" piece of furniture didn't fit in this house and has been relegated to the loft quietly sobs at the thought

nelly I'm sorry that AF turned up bang on cue. Also sorry that you have hit another dreaded milestone. The 2 year mark was depressing in the Pout house too.

lemons I have read similar stats about unexplained. The one that really resonated was that 60% of unexplained'ers have endo

joycep Am laughing at the thought of you drafting a strongly worded letter to my old consultant
The work thing is a nightmare. DH is going to have "the talk" with his boss next week because we suspect that this year might be full of appointments.
I am stressed about my latest Progesterone result too. I don't know why but I suspect that this is dropping with each passing month, largely suspected because I have so many migraines lately which I read can be linked to estrogen dominance.

critter hello to you and so sorry that you are having a hard time of it. Come and mental with us!

princess I laughed at you being princess by name and nature! Sorry that you have the dreaded PMT so badly this cycle. I get it really early doors these days and can be just vile.

lisa Not the dreaded spotting. There seems to be such mixed info about it's significance. It does seem suspect to me that so many of us ladies have it. Good idea to speak with your GP.
As for spitting the dummy, I think we all have those moments. I think it is the utter frustration and lack of control that tips me over the edge.

wine As much as I want my BFP, I don't want to leave here either (and get a bit sad when others leave!).
It is interesting that your consultant wasn't bothered about AF but agree that I wouldn't feel comfortable being "on" in that situation - a surgical gown is less than comfortable without the big period pants and sanitary towel thing going on too! I am finding It difficult to judge whether I will be on my AF because my cycle ranges from 28 to 34 days. I reckon I ought to take the tablets just in case. BTW thanks so much for the PM offer. At the moment I feel quite relaxed about it all but the dreams are already starting and I reckon that as it draws closer I might be keen for some reassurance and will have more questions!

carebear "that's why you have 2 tubes" WTF???????
My West Sussex experience wasn't dire just not great. The first doctor we saw was an arse who belittled everything we said, had a an extremely rude & obnoxious crap manner and made out that he couldn't understand why we there or what my GP's referral letter mean't. He also suggested that DH do his SA in the hospital loos If DH wanted to get arrested for indecency maybe he would've considered that.
The second doctor we saw was nice but flakey. She incorrectly told us that because we were unexplained there was nothing more they would do for us because you only get treatment if you have an identified problem. We were told to go away and go abroad for private IVF with the caveat that she "hoped we would get pregnant because were were a cute couple"?????? She also wrote a follow up letter to my GP that said we had been taking Clomid which was incorrect Anyway the biggest issue I had with the whole experience was that really we should have had the lap at that time because I had inadvertently flagged possible endo and also, like I said above, in unexplained cases a lap is a logical next step. Sorry, epic recount of events! I just feel really strongly that no lovely ladies on here should be fobbed off like we were.

Well I hope that we all are doing something lovely this weekend. I am bunting making....cue much swearing and stitching arms of jumpers to fabric flags!
Big waves to you all X

Wow the shockingness of the medical profession is astounding. care yours goes right to the unbelievable league with lisa's, pout's etc... I really hope the lap&dye sorts any issues out, pout.

And just about euro's outsourcing - we'll be borrowing that phrase in the sour household. But my contender for joking about iui is that our fridge is definitely diffed...

Morning ladies! I'm going to attemp a bit of a catch up.. Soz if I miss anyone - am on my phone!

pout at the Sussex consultants. Unbelievable. I could imagine such things from a shite non-specialist but not someone who's field of medicine this is. At least things are now moving and pleased to hear your pre-op appointment went well. And good luck with the bunting! I think of you as a nicer version on Kirsty Allsop!

stacks that's brilliant news that the scan went well. I'm so thrilled for you. Hope you are feeling ok and have no morning sickness.

euro good luck with the surge! Great news you have 2 good sized follies. Are you taking any medication this month or are the follies au natural?

wine the Big Finger of baybees will point at you one day!! Is your appointment next week? I really really hope that you get some answers this time.

lisa I'm not sure I could put myself through 6 miscarriages... Like you, I have come to a point where I know me & DH will be fine is we don't have our own child, but we would look into adoption.

Ironically, I bought Red to read whilst in for EC and there was an article about Lisa Faulkener in it. She had 3 rounds of ivf & then adopted her little girl. Her story was actually quite uplifting in an odd way!

princess sorry about pms. As you say, at least it means your prog levels are fine! Funnily DH is in the isle of Man for a stag do this weekend! Can't imagine what the locals are making of them...

Welcome to critter

joy re leave and ivf, only my line manager knows the exact reason why I'm off.. Colleagues have been told I'm sick and I'll put something on the sick form for HR about gynae surgery. Prob easier to do in a larger organisation. I am on lovely progesterone suppositories (my poor lady bits) and on prednisolone. Due to the bleeding, I was on 2 different antibiotics (one was a huge suppository thing, urgh) and if I hadn't bled/torn, I'd be on clexane injections too! I'm quite a walking medicine cabinet at the mo!

lemons and ladyg, I totally understand your despondency post treatment cycle. I can't imagine how I'm going to feel. Just hope it's the type of thing that gets better with time. Big hugs. ladyg, were you on a similar cocktail of drugs to me post EC? Might be worth investigating if not??

nelly boo to AF. Hope you found some wine and are starting to feel better.

beryl congrats on your new home! V exciting. Will you be moving in soon? I'd like to move to a less shit area, where the NHS will fund our ivf!

mrsd yes we had a choice about whether to have 1 or 2 embies put back. I'd always thought just the 1 (no idea how we'd afford twins child care) but then I found out you have a higher chance of a live birth rate with 2 being put back! Sadly only 2 of the 5 fertilised made it to day 3, so it made sense. Am now worried about egg/sperm quality although guess it only takes 1! Your tales of decorating with foreign paint amused me. My step dad has a house in France and they are always taking down uk paint, as the French stuff is rubbish, expensive & not available in mushroom!

frannie af does pick its times! One year I had it on my birthday, our anniversary & Xmas day. But it's exciting that you're starting treatment - lots of good luck! I wish there was more research into infertility. They don't really seem to know a great deal about it.

philbee don't give up hope yet! The tests might find something easily curable, you never know. Did your DD arrive fairly quickly?

Hi to artemis, teuch, purple and anyone I've missed! kitty hope everything is still going well with you and your little bean.

I had a bad day yesterday. Feeling really battered and bruised from everything - bruises on thighs from injections, massive bruises on hands from cannula, ouchy needle holes, weird yellow discharge/mucous (anyone else have this with progesterone?) & then freakin cystitis type symptoms! Am partly blaming the progesterone - presumably this is what causes pmt?! Feeling bit better today but it's going to be the longest 2ww ever. I have a blood test on the 23rd to find out if it's worked. I'm at my mum's being looked after as DH is on a stag do. He rang last night, rather drunk (first real booze for him after a dry 3 months-messy) and said he'd had a heart to heart with one if his best mates on the do, who is also ttc, and they both ended up crying! DH NEVER cries! It's kinda sweet but also makes me a bit sad.

Anyhow, about to chain watch some Gossip Girl! Apologies for monster post!

thanks mess that makes sense. I got +ve opks too but I have a feeling I wasn't ovulating until the thyroid got fixed (or if I was, it was too late in the cycle for the egg to be viable iyswim)

best of luck to everyone

Morning ladies. Hope you're all well and having some fun this weekend

Thanks for the lowdown on how you got there Izzy, Mini, Whatmess and Stacks. I'm struck by how different all the stories are. And how sometimes once the problem is identified it can be resolved fairly quickly. Really pleased for all of you and please continue to lurk and keep us up to date!

Boo to AF Nelly and Frannie, how dare she turn up uninvited on your birthday Frannie. Mine seems to have that sixth sense too, managing to turn up on birthdays, holidays and weekends away. Pah. And Lisa a huge raspberry to the evil spotting. Nelly I feel for you on hitting the 2 year mark. I try not to count how many cycles it's been as that just depresses me but you can't hide from the knowledge. I guess we just have to remember it only takes one...

It seems a lot of us bear the 'unexplained' tag. Frannie, Pout, Lemons, Euro, have I got that right? Anyone else? No medic has yet ventured me an opinion but the tests they've done have been 'normal' (I agree lisa, WTF does that mean?) so I'm guessing I am unexplained too. I have not been offered any more investigations but I'm assuming that's because any problem they could find would make no difference to the treatment on offer which boils down to clomid followed by IVF. We've not really discussed the question of when we might stop trying. I think it probably is different for those of us trying for our first. Not more traumatic - long term ttc a horrible situation for anyone - but coming to terms with being childfree is not something I can think about yet. Though we don't talk about baby names or nursery colours any more .

Hello and welcome to CritterPants, sorry you find yourself here but I'm sure this thread will help you, it certainly has me.

Princess really sorry you're feeling rubbish and anxious, good luck for next week.

Euro at your outsourcing... I hope it works for you.

Beryl, congrats on the new house!

Waves to everyone and hope you're all OK. Not much happening here, it's CD16 of another clomid cycle and still no sign of a positive OPK or temp increase. MrA has woken up with a heavy head cold so of course now fears he might die. In fact he probably will if he doesn't man up and continue to shag me when required Poor MrA...

Gin I cross-posted with you... glad your mum's looking after you and I do hope you recover quickly from all the bruising... it's probably going to feel like the longest 2ww in history but I really hope it works out. Everything's crossed for you - and after all you are on the lucky thread! Your poor DP, I can imagine a stag night after a dry 3 months was messy indeed! He's reminded me that men find all this stressful too. Do you know if he's talked much to his friend before? My dp confided in a friend of his when we first started investigations but after the carry-on-style response he got i don't think he's mentioned it since. With that, i shall go provide him some no-strings-attached TLC :)

Hi artemis! Your poor DH getting a carry on style reaction. Mine announced to a group of his mates in the pub that we needed ivf (v random seeing he hadn't told anyone!) and only this one contacted him to see how he was etc & they had a bit of a chat over dinner. I think last night was the first proper 'it's not all fine & dandy' type chat. Guess it's about them finding the right friend to confide in. I'm sure your DH will enjoy the tlc. And remember it when swi time arrives

gin I was keen on adoption and DH I think has come round to the idea, but a colleague at work has two adopted daughters and was having problems with one, when she told me the story I just sat and cried and thought maybe its not for us, also pregnant and very hormonal it seems now that the natural families of the adopted child can be involved even if the birth parents are not?? This was the problem, one daughter had a supportive birth family and the other one didn't. Its something we would have to discuss again.

As for suppositories and temp taking i'm an up the butt girl to be honest and being a tight arse, I find I told have any problems with the progesterone and don't have any leaks either
I thought 6 miscarriages to start with as I'd just had my second and thought hell i'm a third of the way there already, actually I had one many years ago so I'm half way there and not sure if this treatment plan will work, I've chatted to a lady who has had 11!!!

artemis my GP is great, had her own fertility problems had IVF didn't work gave up and then got upduffed with twins naturally so will get the results from the horses mouth as so to speak when I see her.

pout I never used to spot much before AF its only seems to be since last ERPC and starting the steroids which have caused me no end of grief the reason i'm on the progesterone is to help surpess the NK cells and help stop the spotting.

Well i'm now off to put my tiles up, enjoy the sunny weather ladies x

Hey everyone, gosh this thread is moving so fast at the moment, bear with me while I try and do a little catch up...

lisa about you being a tight arse and your suppositories not falling out!! Did you DTD the deed this month in the end? Just wondering if your heaviness could be something other than AF

gin I hope you?re being pampered at your mum?s and your little embies are snuggling in nicely :) I?m keeping everything crossed for you. The being a walking medicine cabinet and associated side effects sounds really tough, I feel for you. It will so all be worth it though. Your poor DH getting hammered and crying! I?ve never seen my DH cry, it would really freak me out if he did I think.

artemis sorry you are coping with a man with man-flu. They can be pathetic can?t they? Maybe by the time you get your +OPK he will be feeling a bit better

pout reading your potted NHS history made me really quite angry. I feel very upset when I think of how people on this thread have struggled, not just with NHS but privately too. I can?t understand why it is so hard to provide a reasonable, uniform standard of fertility care across the country; perhaps I?m being naive. Anyway, you mentioned possibly having to take something to keep your AF away before your op? When I got married I was due to have AF on my wedding day I went to the GP and asked for something ? I was so worried about it! He prescribed what was basically progesterone which I now realise (was totally clueless at the time) must have simply been to hold my lining in place. I wonder if that?s what you?ll get? Anyway the pills were fine, and once you stop taking them AF just shows up a few days later. My cycle went straight back to normal afterwards.

Hope the bunting making goes well, it sounds like something that would result in me having a large gin!

euro PMSL about the ultimate outsourcing! ?please deal? . Any sign of your eggies popping yet? Great news you have two on the go.

wine I hope the big magic finger of fertility (god that sounds wrong) is limbering up to point in your direction very soon! I don?t think it has a grudge against you, I just think it is a bit feckless and forgot about us lot for a bit but now it seems to be remembering so I definitely think lots more pointing at 10+ers is on the horizon :)

princess sorry you have been feeling anxious. A while back on one of the previous threads we had quite a lot of discussion about anxiety as I think a few of us have had issues with it (myself very much included) so you are in good company if you want to talk about it.

Welcome critter

joyce good luck with your progesterone test. Your office situation does sound very difficult, it makes me realise how lucky I am to have a similar-aged and sympathetic manager (although he is known for being indiscreet and I do wonder how many people he has blabbed to, but hey ho)

nelly I?m really sorry about AF and the 2 year mark. I hope you are having fun secret hobbying this weekend and distracting yourself. Will you carry on once you get updiffed? Im in a right old dilemma with my similar but much less scary hobby, I?ve got several occasions where I?m meant to be doing it including over a whole weekend abroad which is booked and paid for, advice seems to vary but the official NHS version says avoid completely :(

beryl big congrats on your house! Great news. Are you moving areas? I didn?t ever get wound up last week either!

Big waves to stacks mini whatmesscarebear mrsd frannie izzy philbeeladygee teuchter I?m so sorry if I?ve missed anyone which I?m sure I have!

Well as for me, mini kitty seems to be settling in ok if the many twinges, cramps and sensations are anything to go by. Still very very early days, so trying to stay balanced about it, but it is comforting to have a few symptoms I must admit. Boobs v sore and have had some major breathlessness which is a bit disconcerting, but apparently normal. I hope you don?t mind me hanging around and chatting! DH is being very nonchalant about it all, I think he is really worried something will go wrong and how that would affect me.

If anyone wants a potted history of how I got diffed, it goes like this: TTC since August 2010. 3x SA?s showed morphology ranging from

Wow, away from internet for a day and I can't keep up, don't know anyone so well yet and they are a lot of us here. Loving the outsourcing comments above, euro, we are trying the old fashioned way (still!!! Not because I think it will work, more 'cause cant cope with the idea of anything else), honestly shag week does get a bit much. Sitting here with period on way feelings a few days early, even my LP doesn't play fair. Rubbish.

mess thanks for the info, I don't know if I could wait that long on the NHS, my GP reckons I could be referred and seen by the fertility clinic in around a month. Otherwise its stumping up £1300

kitty not sure about this month, we DTD on Sat and then I had the scan on Tues along with my surge, he said to do it within the next day, I wanted to DTD that night but didn't hence my spitting the dummy, we did it on the Wed and I had 3 peak days on my CBFM could have been caused by me throwing it on the floor mid strop so who knows, I might test around Tues/Wed as I want to stop taking the progesterone, the cramps could be my bowels, they let me know quite regularly that they are not keen on all these herbal drinks and supplements.
If I have a heavy period I will be happy as I won't rush to have a hysteroscopy.

Sore boobs are very common :) so is feeling shattered and the good old nausea followed by the constant crying I have some very understanding work colleagues

purple I can relate to the LP not playing fair, since the bloody steroids mine have been all over the place as if we don't have enough to worry about. How long have you lived in Beirut ???

Lisa since June last year, I'm from the UK but havnt been living there for over 15 years. I don't know, these details like LP length, it makes you wonder what is worth obsessing over....

purple when did you live before then?? Sorry i'm a nosy curious cow.
Well according to who you asj your LP needs to be at least 10 days, the NHS say it should be at least 12 but my specialist says 10 is ok, i'm trying to analyse/obsess about everything but sometimes its so damn hard

Oh all over the place, spent a lot of time in Africa especially. Yeh, my shortest LP is 11 right now, and will be this time, put money on it - I'm 11 dpo now. I hear 10 is ok too. I'm not sure bout the amount of energy I'm putting into these issues, on the other hand the take-it-easy version didn't produce...er well ..a baby.

Hi everyone. I'm not sure I can even begin to keep up. Firstly to say to kitty and others, yes please of course you should stay, but also feel free to spend time on a Grads thread if you want! I can imagine that at some point you will want to start asking each other questions like "is it normal that I'm squirting milk out of my boobs" and other such questions that will confuse us TTC ers!!

kitty didn't actually do much secret hobbying today as I got launched on Thursday night and am a bit sore! I don't know if I'd keep going. I like to think yes, but OH may have views. However I do know it's something I want to get back to as soon as possible - I know that no matter how much I would love my children, I'd want to keep this part of me - it's been my big thing since I was 5, I can't imagine it not being in my life. Anyway tis all kind of futile to worry about this just now.

euro I love the outsourcing idea! When Mr Nelly is really pissing me off and refusing to give up his one a day cigarette I have considered outsourcing the role of sperm donor full stop .

Does anyone read Marie Claire? I was at the hairdresser today and flicking through this month's one, and the letters page referenced an article from a previous month on infertility. It seems that the anger, jealousy and tendency to hide ourselves away in fear of meeting the up-diffed is completely normal. I don't know if that helps or not? But then of course we were chatting about my wedding with the hairdresser and she slipped in the "and then people assume you will have babies next" and I thought oh god, the pressure.....

I want to catch up with you all properly, but I think the wine tonight is making me feel maudlin. I took the train into Edinburgh today and it was chock-full of babies, including the couple and their 1 year old who took the 3 other seats beside me. I literally avoided eye contact with a baby. I feared what would happen when I looked him in the eye. I felt like such an immature, bitter cow. Then after my hair appointment I decided to look for wedding stuff, was probably in the wrong mood anyway, but it was a nice day and it's Edinburgh, which is always lovely. But I stropped around, tutting at everyone with their babies, I knew I was being a miserable witch but couldn't cheer myself up. I know it'll pass soon and it's hormones plus disappointment; but I wonder if Mr Nelly feels the same? Fuckity fuck fuck fuck.

Anyway I will respond rather more cheerfully to you all tomorrow, when the wine hormones have worn off.

Hi ladies, I tried to catch up but so much has been going on on the thread that I'm struggling this morning. Things of note: gin great news on those embies, great news, I've everything crossed for you m'love. Pout hope you're getting used to your newly painted spare room. purple welcome to this lovely thread, sorry you find yourself here. frannie sorry AF arrived, maybe next time tho? Hugs for everyone else and sorry if I've missed anything important.

As for me, I had the worst day for ages yesterday. We went to an engagement / birthday party for one of DHs best friends. We stopped DIY early and drove all the way up from Sussexto NW London. Were greeted by one of DHs ex-GF. (well he dated before we got together for a few weeks). We hate each other - she likes to pick on me in very subtle ways. So it didn't start well. Then said best friend took us into new bedroom with OH and announced that she's pregnant and showed us a picture of her 13 week embryo. I said congrats but it really got me and I started crying. I blamed hormones and how lovely it is for them but seeing the picture was way too much and made me think of how I'll be seeing my empty womb next week. We went to the shop to get away as DH recognised the wobble signs and decided that we would get treats for the car and go home as i couldnt stop crying, esp when DH explained to his friend who we drove up from Sussex and came to shop with us, that we can't have children at the moment because I have hormone problems. Hearing those words made it all seem so much more real and sad. And then I couldn't stop feeling that it's all my fault that we can't have kids.

Then we bumped into my fave of DHs London friends who we haven't seen for ages and I burst into a new big sob in the car park saying "now I don't even get to see our friends". We went home, tears and headache all the way. No period today so I think it's going to be another hard day. Feeling so, so, so low. God I hate what this is doing to me. We told said preggers friends first when we first got pregnant 3 yrs ago before this horrible nightmare and here we are still no baby. Oh and now the tears have started up again. I'm such a sad sack today. Sorry for moan. Off to smash up kitchen floor and sow a meadow I new back garden with MIL today. At least the suns shining.

joycep I don't have a particularly short LP (11-15 days). I do have some cyclogest in the drawer though, and I have been considering taking it post-ov. I used it on one of the superov cycles I did. It is vile stuff, but if it helps...

My LH surge still hasn't put in an appearance. It's CD15 for me, so if I was going to ovulate on day 16 I would have expected it by now. Maybe the fact that there are 2 follicles for my body to mature is slowing things up a bit? I have occasionally ovulated on day 17 rather than day 16 on an unmedicated cycle, but never any later than that, so I really hope my surge turns up soon. The annoying thing is that it won't be happening this weekend, so I could have stuck with my NHS clinic and saved ourselves about £400!

Slacks that's great news that everything was where it should be on your scan!

Gin I'm going unmedicated this time, so I am just sitting around waiting for my LH surge (which really should have been here by now....)

I didn't have yellow discharge on Cyclogest. I did get lots of nasty white waxy discharge, which is just the carrier from the suppository coming out (yuk). It was horrible. Maybe you should try the rear entrance and see if that helps?

I hope you are feeling less battered today and are being well taken care of.

Tell Mr Artemis to Man TF Up! He can't let a little thing like a mancold get in the way of ttc. When I had my stinking cold last month, we still managed to dtd but we had prossie sex - no kissing, because I was such a snotty mess!

Sorry to hear you are feeling maudlin, Nelly. It is just the hormones I'm sure.

Sorry to hear you are feeling low too, princess. Physical labour might be just what you need to take your mind off things.

princess SUPER BIG HUGS X

Just a quick one because we are about to go on a bagel buying mission to Morrisons...they are like gold dust...but I wanted to come on and say to princess that I felt so sad reading your last post & what a horrible day you had yesterday. I can imagine how difficult it was being shown the nursery and then the scan picture. It was also so unfair that you felt so bad you had to go home. It also isn't fair that something so happy (and innocuous and "normal") for other people can cause such upset for those of us with troubles TTC. I think sometimes when the crying starts it is difficult to pull it back together especially when under pressure to do so.

Our neighbours must have had their grand baby to stay last night because it was crying when we went to bed and I said to DH "can you hear the baby crying?" and then thought that I might never say that to him about our own offspring. Stupid really!

Anyway princess I so hope that you are feeling better today, back in the sanctuary of your own home! BTW sowing a meadow????????? I have visions now of you living on a ten thousand acre estate! Does it count as a meadow if the end of your garden is overgrown and full of bricks and empty paint cans

My LH surge has finally arrived so it looks like we will be doing IUI tomorrow. Just need to phone the clinic now and get us booked in.

Just wanted to wish you tons of luck for tmw euro, hope it goes well for you with the outsourcing...

Thanks, purple.

purple I lived in Zambia as a small chil, have very happy memories but obviously as a child I was totally unaware of the reality around me

euro good luck for tomorrow :)

pout so you are the reason I can never have a bagel on a Sunday

princess still thinking about you x